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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Author
Zozoll Neblyn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#421 - 2016-01-19 04:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zozoll Neblyn
I was really hoping they wouldn't actually do this.

And I think it might backfire. It mostly depends on how much an injector costs. Waiting would have to be substantially cheaper than injecting for me to prefer waiting.

Currently I keep all my alts on separate accounts, and keep them subscribed even if I haven't had a use for them in a long time. I want their skills to keep increasing.

Under the new system, I would have no reason to do so. If I unsubscribe one for a few months, but then later on I feel like catching them up, I can just resub and buy some injectors.

That, or cancel 2/3 of my subs, and consolidate them onto the remaining 1/3 of my accounts.






Vincent Athena wrote:
On the entire "cash out unwanted SP, or SP on a training alt"
The process would be:
Use ISK to buy PLEX.
Break up PLEX into AUR.
Use AUR to buy Skill extractors.
Extract the SP, making Skill injectors.
Sell the Skill injectors for ISK.

The question being: Will you end up with more ISK than you had to begin with?
My guess is Yes. If not, very few will do this process. Why do it if you will not make ISK? The only reason is if you have unused AUR laying about.

So, if very few are making Skill injectors, their price will rise until its reasonably profitable to make them. Which means it will be reasonably profitable to make them.

It's the same way with the current character bazaar. Its more profitable to use all the PLEX needed to sell and transfer a character than the base value of the PLEX.


If the price of injectors rose to be greater than the value of the Aurum, then players would simply start buying PLEX off the market and converting it into injectors.
Algathas
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#422 - 2016-01-19 04:36:36 UTC
Still a pathetic money grab which does nothing to accomplish its supposed intended goals.

Help newbros? Yeah right. What newbro has billions of isk to toss around on day 1? These will be a ridiculously high priced item which will force newbros to spend money on plex to afford them as they will definitely not be able to afford them otherwise.

Simultaneously rich older players can reap benefits from them with their limitless supplies of isk.

CCP is effectively double dipping (or even triple dipping). - Pay sub to train skill > Pay AUR to extract skill > Buy plex to afford the ridiculous price to inject SP. At the same time, the total SP in the game decreases making these items even more valuable and expensive.

Anyone who has half a brain can see through the lines to what is really going on.
lmmortalist
lmmortality Associates
#423 - 2016-01-19 04:36:41 UTC
I like the way the Goon posters in this thread (except for a single one!) have their tongues pressed so deep between CCP's buttcheeks that their ideas of exploiting this feature are far more than just obvious.

-This is not the same thing as the character bazaar. In the bazaar you receive a character with the skillset, avatar, employment history, nickname, reputation etc. of whoever happened to have been training it. In other words it's not 100% customized to your liking on a silver platter, which is also a reason for some to think again before buying a character. This is something that also affects the bulk price of the particular character, meaning that the player can't slowly ****-drop his real life cash into SP but has to make a big investment at once

-As Tippia said: this is going to flush the T3 cruiser SP loss after a ship loss down the toilet

-This is a huge step towards making the game more mainstream and not so hard and unforgiving on the player. An ideology which has allowed Eve to hold its unique status among MMORPGs

-Like many other players, I never found the instant gratification to be the most enjoyable way to play games and, as such, have favoured games like Eve which are all about long term plans. So much for those skill plans...
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#424 - 2016-01-19 04:50:36 UTC
I have been playing almost nine years. I have enough SP to do anything I want in this game. I do not see myself ever using this feature. With that said, I still support this change, because it will be good for some people and will improve their gaming experience. That, and, it is no different than selling or buying a character in the bazaar.

CCP, this idea is good and you should feel good.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Doppleganger
Federated Holdings
Libera Alliance
#425 - 2016-01-19 04:58:01 UTC
This is the worst idea CCP has come up with in my 13 yrs of playing this game (I was in beta as well so yes 13 yrs).

I have had a sub running continuously since 1 month after release. I have always enjoyed this game and knew I wanted to play it for yrs so even when I couldnt play for a couple of months I would keep my sub running to keep up on skills that I would want when I could get back to the game to play it.

If I was a newer player this would probably make it so I wouldnt keep a constant sub. I mean if I wanted to take a few months away from the game no prob because I could just buy sp to catch back me back up to the time I took off.

Seems like this idea will create more fair weather subs then the dedicated ones.
God Chaser
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#426 - 2016-01-19 05:00:17 UTC
This is the thing you want to do with the most precious thing in the game?
Cant tolerate this idea.
Gerardd
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#427 - 2016-01-19 05:01:53 UTC
i wasn't paying attention when this was announced the frist time around. This seems like a really bad plan to me. It strikes at the heart of the verisimilitude that to me always was a great part of Eve. It is fundamentally different from the character bazaar, where you trade a character (never done that either but can see the point of that). Here you would essentially give yourself a lobotomy and pass the extract on to someone else. How that is in any shape or form realistic is beyond me.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#428 - 2016-01-19 05:20:50 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I have been playing almost nine years. I have enough SP to do anything I want in this game. I do not see myself ever using this feature. With that said, I still support this change, because it will be good for some people and will improve their gaming experience. That, and, it is no different than selling or buying a character in the bazaar.

CCP, this idea is good and you should feel good.



But it is differant than the bazaar of it was the same they would not be keeping the bazaar
Dr Conrad Murray
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#429 - 2016-01-19 05:29:42 UTC
Aerious wrote:
What a waste of time and resources.

What use is this to a 2004 player with over 210m SP?


I'd say it would pay your sub for the next 12 months with all those useless SP you have
Dr Conrad Murray
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#430 - 2016-01-19 05:31:49 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
It's official, Kil2 really is the moron who killed EVE. Not only can't he balance for ****, he also introduces ships he doesn't even know what they'll do and will require help from players to fix. And now he dropped this bomb on us. Well done clown.

- edit -

Not going to stand for it: I'll delete my YT channel with guides and stop helping newbies in Rookie, I don't want to play p2w games and I don't want to lure others into one either.



Hi, can I have your Skillpoints ?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#431 - 2016-01-19 05:33:15 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
That, and, it is no different than selling or buying a character in the bazaar.


Yes it very much is.
Dr Conrad Murray
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#432 - 2016-01-19 05:33:25 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Even if it has already been suggested ...

CCPLEASE LET US DELETE SKILLS!

I don't want a skillbook refund. Just let me delete the dang skills.



Personally I want to keep the skillbooks, because I'm probably going to start training some of those skills again
DJ Ghost Recon
Perkone
Caldari State
#433 - 2016-01-19 06:02:59 UTC
This is a sad joke. Really 500k. for a new player that might seem like a lot. but for someone that has 40mil-80mil points. it will allow you to train (2) level 1 skills from stage 4 to stage 5 lol.

I was really excited at the idea that i would be able to give myself points. Take from one account to remove useless skills that I trained on impulse and apply to a toon that I had a better focus on. But 500k for what 20.00 or 30.00 bucks..

Really ... LAME
Mifune
The Rusty Muskets
#434 - 2016-01-19 06:16:05 UTC
So I will preface my post in saying that I have been playing eve for a very long time, since before it was released. Before most people knew the game even existed and before a fair number of the people currently working at ccp. How eve in its infancy grabbed me was its unabashed approach to its players. It expected the players to bring their brains to the game if they were to succeed. I remember playing eve before there was even a "set destination" and you had to look at the map, write down you're jumps, plan you're route to go somewhere in the eve universe and then do it again to go to some other unknown solar system. It truly felt as if you were a space farer. When the game takes a direction to specifically make the consequences in eve easier on the player base, out of fear of consequences from the player base... It takes away the uniqueness that brought so many of the players to the game in the first place.

Firstly when eve started and us "old vets" trudged into the cold embrace of new eden, we felt freedom, adventure, we felt something that no MMO before it had given us. It was a game for adults, It was blade runner, it was ascendancy, it was what our imagination of space and alter egos craved. Finally having a world in which we could truly escape our normal daily life and dream of the stars and the universe which we could not reach.

What we were privileged enough to experience was one painful kick in the pills after another from eve. Eve forced us to learn the game as well as the developers or better. What can be broken, where are the boundaries and most importantly what are the consequences of failure. If a player messed up they lost, in whatever they were attempting. Every decision in eve meant something and those who took the time to think before making decisions would be rewarded for their efforts. One major element to eve was (as of this dev blog) character grooming, taking the time to plan which skills to train and when. This was just as important as applying those skills in game. Taking the time plan for you're characters future was you're responsibility and no one else's. If you messed up you had to deal with it. No get out of jail card, no take backs. Over the years eve has slowly made bad decisions "less" bad. In recent years I have been worried that the eve I grew to respect is changing in ways that may not be reversible. Catering to a player base that wants everything on a silver platter and complains even then that is not good enough. This the antithesis of eve to me.

While some in the community may say HEY JACK! theres a character bazaar.. so we should have skill buying also! (yes it is skill buying not trading folks). Well my argument to that is the character bazaar was a 110% bad idea in concept and implementation. It was a feel good moment for a dev team that they earned their pay check for a quarter but unfortunately the community has been paying the price ever since. Secondly two wrongs do not make a right.. Every player in eve up until the bazaar had to be responsible for their actions, the bazaar broke that and I would argue should be ended.

Now if we are going to argue that Pandora is out of the box and there is no going back, even then skill buying is such a bad idea on so many different levels. There are so many blatant flaws to anyone that half thinks about the impact on the game going into the future. The only positives Ive read thus far benefit the impatient or the regretful. Someone made a comment about telling a corp mate they have to wait to play with the big boys. Like ever other player that came before them? Put in the time and work... or would you like a silver platter my dear?

As to the regretful, as I said consequences. I have skills I look back on and think... why did I train that? what a waste.. but you know what? Its a part of my character, a part of me, a lesson and a reminder. One that will guide me into the future.

Looking at the proposed plan my question firstly is why? (anyone remember station environments?)

Is there really a demand for what you are trying to implement because I just do not see it. Every player I have talked to so far regardless of their time in eve have said this plan is a bad idea. The great thing about eve atm is that ever player is subject to the same rules.

As I see it there are three obvious paths for eve to travel down.

Monetary - Dumb down eve, make it easier and more inclusive to the general audience, less consequences and more feel good's and ata boys. Flexibility and hand holding for anyone not willing or capable of playing the game.

Longevity - Understand how eve came to be, why it is special and what you can do to make it better. Realize that you as developers have the power of life and death for eve and take ultimate responsibility for you're decisions with that in mind.

Role change - Conclude that the eve that once was is not a financially viable option to continue with. Convert eve from a game of mind and consequences to a modern game of micro transactions and pay to win.

I am not going to make my personal assumptions on which path ccp is choosing and/or has chosen. I would say that this decisions if carried through on will have major consequences.

What I would ask is to think deeply on the "consequences" of this decisions. Not because players may quit playing but because we are reaching a tipping point at which eve is not eve, its just another replaceable easy P2Win MMO. It may not change over night but it will eventually arrive at its destination. I hope the choice is the second, and that development will take the foundation that is eve and blaze a path into the future with the same level of imagination that eve started. I feel as if eve has been chasing ghost so to speak. Tweaking things that were already balanced, changing things with no benificial purpose.

Time to make eve... Not change it.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#435 - 2016-01-19 06:16:42 UTC
i am not afraid of high SP noobs Cool

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Beta Maoye
#436 - 2016-01-19 06:44:58 UTC
Max. speed of SP training is 2,700/hour. 500K SP requires 185 hours of max. training. 185 hours is roughly a quarter of PLEX(720 hours) which is currently valued at about 1.2B. 500K SP should worth at least 300M. Not to mention the time value of 185 hours training period and CCP's extractor cost. A SP package might end up well above 1B in the player market. SP is always in demand, like PLEX, will be a good reserve currency to store value. It might help to reduce the inflation pressure of PLEX. A good news to PLEX users.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#437 - 2016-01-19 07:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
DJ Ghost Recon wrote:
This is a sad joke. Really 500k. for a new player that might seem like a lot. but for someone that has 40mil-80mil points. it will allow you to train (2) level 1 skills from stage 4 to stage 5 lol.

I was really excited at the idea that i would be able to give myself points. Take from one account to remove useless skills that I trained on impulse and apply to a toon that I had a better focus on. But 500k for what 20.00 or 30.00 bucks..

Really ... LAME
Where did those numbers come from? How do you figure $20-$30?


DJ Ghost Recon wrote:
Max. speed of SP training is 2,700/hour. 500K SP requires 185 hours of max. training. 185 hours is roughly a quarter of PLEX(720 hours) which is currently valued at about 1.2B. 500K SP should worth at least 300M. Not to mention the time value of 185 hours training period and CCP's extractor cost. A SP package might end up well above 1B in the player market. SP is always in demand, like PLEX, will be a good reserve currency to store value. It might help to reduce the inflation pressure of PLEX. A good news to PLEX users.
The 300mill IS the cost of the time training, why would you need to factor that in again? That said we really do need an aur price for the extractors. The last real potential for catastrophic failure here is a bad price.
Dosperado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#438 - 2016-01-19 07:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dosperado
This announcement is the lowest point in the whole history of EVE Online.

Just cancelled my EVE subscription after 13 years of faithfulness.

I don't want to play Pay2Win games and I will never come back.

Good bye to all I played with in the last couple of years. And no, you can't have my stuff!

I will announce the destruction of my highsec carrier later in another thread...

EVE Veteran

Beta Maoye
#439 - 2016-01-19 07:24:25 UTC
DJ Ghost Recon wrote:
The 300mill IS the cost of the time training, why would you need to factor that in again? That said we really do need an aur price for the extractors. The last real potential for catastrophic failure here is a bad price.

Because instant skill point injection has higher value than traditional skill point training.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#440 - 2016-01-19 07:35:13 UTC
Beta Maoye wrote:
DJ Ghost Recon wrote:
The 300mill IS the cost of the time training, why would you need to factor that in again? That said we really do need an aur price for the extractors. The last real potential for catastrophic failure here is a bad price.
Because instant skill point injection has higher value than traditional skill point training.
No, it doesn't. The only cost of SP is the time training it, and this is a transfer of that time, thus the cost of that time is only factored once. The seller isn't providing any extra value that needs counted again.