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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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tasman devil
Puritans
#21 - 2016-01-18 15:48:20 UTC
I do have some clarification request:

So you consume a "Skill extractor" which goes poof! at the end (along with 500k of your prescious SPs) and you are left with a "Skill Injector", right?
Ie: you'll lose 500k regardless of your character SPs, but you'll only gain less and less if you inject it into a high SP character.

If this is true, then:

1: to min-max it:
Basically means that I should have an ALT low SP (under 5m SP) character, who I deck out lets say with max Intelligence and Memory attributes, assign some Int/Mem skills to him and then periodically milk him for 500k SP that I can then sell on the market.


2: Any other route and you'll have a net negative on the SP pool.
In effect CCP is burning (removing) SP from the game.


This will be the playground of those who have nothing else to train (i.e. players with enough SP that they can stop the training on their main and focus on "milking" an alt like I just detailed earlier).

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Hubs
Doomheim
#22 - 2016-01-18 15:48:52 UTC
This "Pay to Win" option worries me immensely and makes me somewhat sad...
CCP Cognac
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2016-01-18 15:50:28 UTC
Mai Khumm wrote:
Can a player remove skill points from any skill?

For example, I have Caldari Carrier to level 5. But the prerequisite is Battleship level 5, can I remove my Battleship skills and still be able to fly a Carrier?

Also, if I remove skill points from...lets say Gallente Frigate, so there's 0 SP there, can I remove the skill? If so, do I get the skillbook back?


Prereq skills can not be extracted. The will be represented with a lock icon like you can see on this picture.

[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68915/1/Skill_trading_training.png[/img]

as soon as the advanced skills have been extracted the former prereq skill will be open for extraction.

As of now there are no plans to remove skill books when extraction takes you to 0.

This will mean that we will need to do some changes to skill training which will hopefully also allow you to inject skill books you don't have the prereqs instead of having to haul them around waiting for that prereq to finish(no promises this will be available on realease).
Sir Constantin
#24 - 2016-01-18 15:50:34 UTC
IMO 300k and 150k is too much, should be half of that..
I don't know what the price will be, if it's too expensive new players wont have access and if it's too cheap 50-100mil chars will use them like crazy.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-01-18 15:52:17 UTC
Hubs wrote:
This "Pay to Win" option worries me immensely and makes me somewhat sad...

How is this "pay to win?" SP injectors aren't for sale on the AUR store; only the extractors are.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2016-01-18 15:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
brb, buying plex

same comment from last time stands: this is not a brilliant idea
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#27 - 2016-01-18 15:53:26 UTC
Still waiting on a personal version without such a steep penalty for being a long term player.
YouAreMyBounty Sarn
South Sun Industries
Brave Collective
#28 - 2016-01-18 15:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: YouAreMyBounty Sarn
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that there was a positive attitude about TSP's. I posted many times in that dev blog & there was a majority of people against it, commonly quoting a line from a CCP guy that said something along the lines of, paying extra money into eve should never give a skill advantage over someone with a regular subscription. The point was that you shouldn't be doing this. It's a terrible idea.

I am heavily against it. There is pages and pages of rage on that thread about people not liking this pay-to-win money grabbing attitude proposed by Eve-Online.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#29 - 2016-01-18 15:55:23 UTC
YouAreMyBounty Sarn wrote:
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that there was a positive attitude about TSP's. I posted many times in that dev blog & there was a majority of people against it,

In your mind, perhaps.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#30 - 2016-01-18 15:56:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
tasman devil wrote:
Basically means that I should have an ALT low SP (under 5m SP) character, who I deck out lets say with max Intelligence and Memory attributes, assign some Int/Mem skills to him and then periodically milk him for 500k SP that I can then sell on the market.

2: Any other route and you'll have a net negative on the SP pool.
In effect CCP is burning (removing) SP from the game.

But if you're using AUR for the extractor... why not get plex and train more. Oh snap.

Besides... it's not surprising there may be a most efficient way to produce something. To min-max my dominix production I would research the BPO fully as well, right?

Otherwise I'm having a net negative on the dominix pool?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Titus Tallang
EVE University
Ivy League
#31 - 2016-01-18 15:58:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Titus Tallang
I still think this is a terrible idea, just like last time it was proposed. Here's why:


  • It has the outward appearance of microtransactions: Whether this system, with its unique CCP-branded Everything Comes From Another Player™ approach, is actually a microtransaction system is arguable, but this is not the point. What matters is the first impression on a new player. "Wait 10 hours to train this skill - or take out your credit card and buy some PLEX!". I realize the prospect has dollar signs twirling in the eyes of your accountants right now, but it's guaranteed to drive plenty of new players away, especially during those crucial first days. I can guarantee you it would've driven me away when I started playing.
  • It makes it so new players (feel they) have to purchase SP with cash to remain competitive: Bittervets get 150k SP per extractor, while brand new players get 500k SP per extractor, a 233% increase. Now contrast the buying power of bittervets with the buying power of new players. Do you really believe that these will end up in any price range that is remotely affordable for a new player that doesn't have Credit Card V trained? Yet a new player that doesn't pay for these will see his friends flying more powerful ships, with better modules, and higher effectiveness, thus affecting a strong psychological incentive to also pay for SP boosters to remain competitive.


Please stop doing your best Scrooge McDuck impression with a cash register jingling in the background and stop this madness before it's too late. We have enough issues retaining new players, something the game badly needs, as is, without you adding a system that makes it look as if you had the same monetization model as a f**ing Farmville clone.

Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
tasman devil
Puritans
#32 - 2016-01-18 15:58:50 UTC
Minchurra wrote:
I like it. Some Qs:

How does this work in the case where I don't want to sell my XP on the market but I do want to re-arrange how I have it distributed?

For example on a toonie with 65 million SP, can I just move 5 million SP from my mining skills and dump them into my leadership skills, or do I need to use the injector/extractor and lose a percentage of my skill points?

Is 500k the maximum you can transfer in one go? Surely 512k would be a better amount given skills advance in powers of 2.

Are there plans for bigger/smaller injectors at different price points?

Can the injectors be bought for £££ like the extractors or are they in-game purchases only?

Re-arrange?

If you are using these extractors and injectors, then:

Begin: 65m SP
Middle: burn, 10 extractors, lose 5m SP
Middle2: injects injectors, gain 3m SP.
End: 63m SP

You'll burn around 2m SP to relocate those 5m SP to 3m SP somewhere else - >> not worth the hassle, might as well just train them in the first place! Attention

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Emilia Zapata
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#33 - 2016-01-18 15:59:03 UTC
Is there a limit to the amount of SP you can extract from one character?
Or will it be possible to use a character as a constant SP farm, only limited by how quick it can accumulate them?
Escobar Sr
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#34 - 2016-01-18 15:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Escobar Sr
Kyt Thrace wrote:
OK, My question is simple.

After you remove the skill points to 0 in those skills you no longer want, can you remove the skill from your skillsheet.

I do not want a bunch of 0 level skills showing up. Why remove skill points if you can not remove the skill itself.

Please answer this CCP.



Honestly now, wouldn't it be awesome to delete the skill and reimburse the ISK you spent on the Skill Book itself? Honestly now, why is it such a big issue for you anyway? Couple skills that show "Level 0".

The question should be like:

"Will you implement a filter that allows my client to stop showing Level 0 skills?"
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-01-18 15:59:45 UTC
YouAreMyBounty Sarn wrote:
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that there was a positive attitude about TSP's. I posted many times in that dev blog & there was a majority of people against it, commonly quoting a line from a CCP guy that said something along the lines of, paying extra money into eve should never give a skill advantage over someone with a regular subscription. The point was that you shouldn't be doing this. It's a terrible idea.

I am heavily against it. There is pages and pages of rage on that thread about people not liking this pay-to-win money grabbing attitude proposed by Eve-Online.


It was a done deal as soon as they did any serious work on a blog for it. I still dislike the idea and simply won't use it. If that puts me at a disadvantage for not buying my way to higher skills so be it.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#36 - 2016-01-18 16:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Minchurra wrote:
I like it. Some Qs:

How does this work in the case where I don't want to sell my XP on the market but I do want to re-arrange how I have it distributed?

For example on a toonie with 65 million SP, can I just move 5 million SP from my mining skills and dump them into my leadership skills, or do I need to use the injector/extractor and lose a percentage of my skill points?

Is 500k the maximum you can transfer in one go? Surely 512k would be a better amount given skills advance in powers of 2.

Are there plans for bigger/smaller injectors at different price points?

Can the injectors be bought for £££ like the extractors or are they in-game purchases only?

First victim to the new system detected. Read the dev blog again. If you do this, you will lose SP because your total amount extract is 500,000 but due to your 64.5M SP sum, you will only be able to re-implement 150,000 SP. Have fun wasting your money. Roll

Considering that, it is working as intended. CCP and the players are conditioning new players into playing with their credit card (beyond the subscription) instead of the game itself. Fun times lie ahead. Big smile

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Sorgia
Vrix Nation
#37 - 2016-01-18 16:03:28 UTC
hpy i did not sell my indyalts yet then

stil dont like this system though, rich ppl instandly max there skils, ppl who used exploits instandly maxedout.
Minchurra
Perkone
#38 - 2016-01-18 16:04:41 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Minchurra wrote:
I like it. Some Qs:

How does this work in the case where I don't want to sell my XP on the market but I do want to re-arrange how I have it distributed?

For example on a toonie with 65 million SP, can I just move 5 million SP from my mining skills and dump them into my leadership skills, or do I need to use the injector/extractor and lose a percentage of my skill points?

Is 500k the maximum you can transfer in one go? Surely 512k would be a better amount given skills advance in powers of 2.

Are there plans for bigger/smaller injectors at different price points?

Can the injectors be bought for £££ like the extractors or are they in-game purchases only?

First victim to the new system detected. Read the dev blog again. If you do this, you will lose SP because your total amount extract is 500,000 but due to your 64.5M SP sum, you will only be able to re-implement 150,000 SP. Have fun wasting your money. Roll


You'd almost think I was asking because it sounded so useless that it couldn't possibly be what they were planning on doing.
Esmyra Aeonire
Found And Lost
#39 - 2016-01-18 16:05:17 UTC
Are characters on trial accounts able to use this system?
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#40 - 2016-01-18 16:06:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
I still have great concerns about the implications of the meta for this idea -- Alliances and coallitions with trillions to spare will surely suck up hundreds of billions of skill points -- especially in the initial crash as people try to make short-term gains by selling unused SP.

This will hand them an (additional) massive advantage over groups in the game, and would actively incentivise new players to join these larger groups and receive SP hand-outs, to the detriment of smaller groups who simply have no realistic prospect of being able to drop half a trillion on a supply of SP injectors to help their own newbros.

This, more than anything, is what I consider harmful. It's a new feature that further institutionalises existing massive power blocks when the game should be moving towards smaller to mid-sized alliances and coallitions capable of creating engaging content in localised pockets.

Edit:

I would also like to know, a few months after launch, how many SPs are being extracted from the same skill repeatedly. I would expect farmers to be constantly stripping SP from something like Battleship V with a full remap and +5 implants.