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Dev blog: Building your Citadel, one block at a time

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#381 - 2015-10-29 20:06:59 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
Querns wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
So random ass question/comment.
Does it seem at all (thematically) odd to anyone else that Citadels require service components like Station Factory or Station Reprocessing Center, but don't have those services without the appropriate service module? On the other hand, service modules don't require those components, just materials.

So what, a station has 90% of what it needs to do something, but you have to build the other 10%?
Excuse me while I find the world's largest "Batteries not included" Sign

They're going to rename the components to remove all of those suggestive, completely-unrelated-to-the-structure's-function names.

Only mention of renaming I saw was that they would be called Structure X instead of Station X, but they SHOULD remove the suggestive names.

I can't remember if it was a post on reddit or in this thread, but they said they'd be renaming the comps not only from Station -> Structure, but to remove things like "doomsday mount" and "baguette drying rack" from the names.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Capsups
Atomic Mangocorp
#382 - 2015-10-29 20:09:44 UTC
CCP RedDawn mentioned in his post here that he wanted to make Data sites more profitable to run. With these new citadels, why don't we use the High-Tech trade goods that can drop from the data sites for production of the citadels and the other new structures?

High-Tech Data Chip sounds like something you could use in a citadel, High-Tech Scanner is an obvious candidate for including in the new observatories, High-Tech Manufacturing Tools could easily fit in with the new industry structures while the High-Tech Small Arms could perhaps be used for the new modules that can be fit onto citadels.

This could potentially increase the value of data sites immensely and suddenly there's a major demand for people doing exploration sites because there's always a demand for the new structures, just like there are for POS right now.
Balthizarr
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#383 - 2015-10-29 23:05:04 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Balthizarr wrote:
These are going to be MASSIVE floating stations, so not letting you walk around them one day...
WIS has to be left for a future year and/or decade, when CCP has the funds they'd need to create detailed interior environments, with things to do inside, all without sacrificing ongoing development of the spaceship game. It probably needs to be a separate game, an expansion to Dust / Legion. EVE is spaceships.

More it has a complete lack of compelling game play reasons to be done.
Not a single thing people have suggested for it actually adds to gameplay, just pure fluff or in one or two cases pure griefing.


Why does making "eve real" have to add gameplay???? These are meant to be our homes away from stations. So like stations where we can dock and walk around the captain quarters prison cell they gave us that doesn't add game play but instead adds alittle realism!!! As I said these are meant to be a new breed of structure's so why not one day make them the cornerstone of there wish to make eve real and one day allow players that want to leave there ship n walk round there homes, possibly furnish there new homes etc! I've played many online games that let you buy homes that you can furnish your own way, even games like GTA 5 online allows you to spend your hard earned cash on a place you call home n invite friends n corp mates into with next to no added game play but instead adding realism to the world you play in!

CCP have done an outstanding job of improving eve with new ships and a visually stunning universes after alot of players spat their dummies out over the walking in station expansion so why not stop crying everytime anyone who loved the idea of the walking in station expansion mentions leaving our ships and if its possible to give us alittle of what was proposed in the walking in station expansion allow CCP to do it!!!

Oh n my question was put out to ask a dev (assuming they have time to reply) about possible future add-ons to citadels so if your not a dev and nothing more than a player like me who knows only what CCP tell us, keep your empty unimportant opinion to your self seeing as your not anyone that can affectively answer my question!!!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#384 - 2015-10-29 23:18:50 UTC
Balthizarr wrote:

Oh n my question was put out to ask a dev (assuming they have time to reply) about possible future add-ons to citadels so if your not a dev and nothing more than a player like me who knows only what CCP tell us, keep your empty unimportant opinion to your self seeing as your not anyone that can affectively answer my question!!!

Because anything on EVE takes Dev time away from other features.
So if you want WiS, work out some real compelling gameplay reasons for WiS in Citadels to actually be important.
And if you don't want other peoples input, write it on a piece of paper next to your computer, don't post it in a public discussion thread.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#385 - 2015-10-30 11:36:06 UTC
Have few questions and "doubts" about the citadels ...

... tethering effectively means, you are safe on undock and can safely escape to and arrive from warp (bubbles aside); nobody can force you to fight or interact with an invading force, no room for exploiting piloting mistakes, right?
... as Citadels are about to replace not only POSs but also (player) stations, this will drastically reduce options to fight for smaller gangs not able to reinforce the Citadel itself and capable to operate multiple siege events
... also the powerful Citadel weaponry will make it impossible for smaller groups to even stay in range of hostile stations, right?
... Wormholes, today you can shoot down SMAs (everywhere, not only in WH) for loot on an inactive tower pretty easily solo, with the Citadels you always need a multi-stage siege fleet ... this again drastically reduced conflict potential.

So is the desired goal of the new mechanics to make Null, Low and WH much much safer for the defender than today? Because this is, what I read from the blogs and don't like ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#386 - 2015-10-30 11:42:41 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Have few questions and "doubts" about the citadels ...

... tethering effectively means, you are safe on undock and can safely escape to and arrive from warp (bubbles aside); nobody can force you to fight or interact with an invading force, no room for exploiting piloting mistakes, right?
... as Citadels are about to replace not only POSs but also (player) stations, this will drastically reduce options to fight for smaller gangs not able to reinforce the Citadel itself and capable to operate multiple siege events
... also the powerful Citadel weaponry will make it impossible for smaller groups to even stay in range of hostile stations, right?
... Wormholes, today you can shoot down SMAs (everywhere, not only in WH) for loot on an inactive tower pretty easily solo, with the Citadels you always need a multi-stage siege fleet ... this again drastically reduced conflict potential.

So is the desired goal of the new mechanics to make Null, Low and WH much much safer for the defender than today? Because this is, what I read from the blogs and don't like ...

Dear god, man, you're burning through the ellipsis quota at an alarming rate. Save some for the rest of us!

How is tethering any different than the undock invulnerability timer, or using an instadock, or a POS shield?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#387 - 2015-10-30 12:26:03 UTC
Querns wrote:

How is tethering any different than the undock invulnerability timer, or using an instadock, or a POS shield?

Invuln timer is 30s and can be broken by piloting error, tethering is infinite and fool proof. Instadock spots are open to piloting errors too, tethering means warp to 0 and you are safe (except bubble, but those don't exist in low). Yes, it's more like POS shields, but those are not the default home for most of the people today.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#388 - 2015-10-30 12:39:18 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Querns wrote:

How is tethering any different than the undock invulnerability timer, or using an instadock, or a POS shield?

Invuln timer is 30s and can be broken by piloting error, tethering is infinite and fool proof. Instadock spots are open to piloting errors too, tethering means warp to 0 and you are safe (except bubble, but those don't exist in low). Yes, it's more like POS shields, but those are not the default home for most of the people today.

Tethering can be broken by pilot error, too. It deactivates if you accrue a weapons timer, and if you fly out of range.

I fail to see how an instadock is open to piloting error. You warp to the bookmark at zero, you dock. You can even engage autopilot in the middle of the warp to make the server forcibly dock you without any interaction on your part.

The only difference between being in dock range of a station and being in tethering range is that in the case of a station, you have to hold down the D key and click on the station in order to activate the safety part.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Pine Marten
Doomheim
#389 - 2015-10-30 14:26:35 UTC
Why has the design decision been made to make every station look the same?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#390 - 2015-10-30 14:29:14 UTC
Pine Marten wrote:
Why has the design decision been made to make every station look the same?

Citadels aren't the only new station-replacement structures being added. They're just the first.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#391 - 2015-10-30 14:34:50 UTC
Pine Marten wrote:
Why has the design decision been made to make every station look the same?



even the M/L/XL citadels all look different

I don't even know what you are asking honestly

So far no new structure we have see even looks remotely the same as each other or anything in game


If you mean a goon XL vs a PL XL vs a PFR XL

Yes, they will look the same, but the new structures uses the same technology as skins, so when the art department comes off 24 hr watchlists, they might have time for skins
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#392 - 2015-10-30 14:56:10 UTC
Pine Marten wrote:
Why has the design decision been made to make every station look the same?


I am fairly sure they mentioned SKINs for citadels. This would be a logical thing for CCP to produce and sell. It would also be a great way to introduce the first "custom" alliance skins. I would imagine that being able to prominently display the alliance logo on a structure would be a popular choice in the NEX.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#393 - 2015-10-30 15:01:23 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Have few questions and "doubts" about the citadels ...

... tethering effectively means, you are safe on undock and can safely escape to and arrive from warp (bubbles aside); nobody can force you to fight or interact with an invading force, no room for exploiting piloting mistakes, right?
... as Citadels are about to replace not only POSs but also (player) stations, this will drastically reduce options to fight for smaller gangs not able to reinforce the Citadel itself and capable to operate multiple siege events
... also the powerful Citadel weaponry will make it impossible for smaller groups to even stay in range of hostile stations, right?
... Wormholes, today you can shoot down SMAs (everywhere, not only in WH) for loot on an inactive tower pretty easily solo, with the Citadels you always need a multi-stage siege fleet ... this again drastically reduced conflict potential.

So is the desired goal of the new mechanics to make Null, Low and WH much much safer for the defender than today? Because this is, what I read from the blogs and don't like ...


Tipa,

1. When CCP invents a way to prevent piloting mistakes, the universe will produce a better pilot.

2. How are the new structure reinforcement mechanics so different from the POS-reinforcement mechanics, such that a smaller gang will be unable to do something in the future that it can do today?

3. The "powerful Citadel weaponry" has to be manned in order to present any kind of threat.

4. If someone goes "inactive" and leaves their new structure unattended for 48 hours, you will be able to kill it and loot the same as you can today. You just won't get the totally free loot pinata because someone forgot to fuel a POS.

In short, I do not see how Null, Low, and WH are getting much safer.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#394 - 2015-10-30 15:23:16 UTC
Querns wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Querns wrote:

How is tethering any different than the undock invulnerability timer, or using an instadock, or a POS shield?

Invuln timer is 30s and can be broken by piloting error, tethering is infinite and fool proof. Instadock spots are open to piloting errors too, tethering means warp to 0 and you are safe (except bubble, but those don't exist in low). Yes, it's more like POS shields, but those are not the default home for most of the people today.

Tethering can be broken by pilot error, too. It deactivates if you accrue a weapons timer, and if you fly out of range.

I fail to see how an instadock is open to piloting error. You warp to the bookmark at zero, you dock. You can even engage autopilot in the middle of the warp to make the server forcibly dock you without any interaction on your part.

The only difference between being in dock range of a station and being in tethering range is that in the case of a station, you have to hold down the D key and click on the station in order to activate the safety part.

I have a lot of people on my killboard who messed up with docking/undocking ... most poeple don't know/use the autopilot trick, they warp and dock manually, with tethering it's just warp, dock whenever you want, look around, no rush, no stress. With undock the same, today you have max. 30s outside before you are forced to do something to keep yourself safe ...

... basically POS shield security for everyone. BTW, what will be the radius of tethering? Small as for station docking range or large like POS shields?

I'm my own NPC alt.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#395 - 2015-10-30 15:27:35 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Querns wrote:

How is tethering any different than the undock invulnerability timer, or using an instadock, or a POS shield?

Invuln timer is 30s and can be broken by piloting error, tethering is infinite and fool proof. Instadock spots are open to piloting errors too, tethering means warp to 0 and you are safe (except bubble, but those don't exist in low). Yes, it's more like POS shields, but those are not the default home for most of the people today.

Tethering can be broken by pilot error, too. It deactivates if you accrue a weapons timer, and if you fly out of range.

I fail to see how an instadock is open to piloting error. You warp to the bookmark at zero, you dock. You can even engage autopilot in the middle of the warp to make the server forcibly dock you without any interaction on your part.

The only difference between being in dock range of a station and being in tethering range is that in the case of a station, you have to hold down the D key and click on the station in order to activate the safety part.

I have a lot of people on my killboard who messed up with docking/undocking ... most poeple don't know/use the autopilot trick, they warp and dock manually, with tethering it's just warp, dock whenever you want, look around, no rush, no stress. With undock the same, today you have max. 30s outside before you are forced to do something to keep yourself safe ...

... basically POS shield security for everyone. BTW, what will be the radius of tethering? Small as for station docking range or large like POS shields?



LARGE

Think 40-50km
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#396 - 2015-10-30 15:32:10 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Querns wrote:

How is tethering any different than the undock invulnerability timer, or using an instadock, or a POS shield?

Invuln timer is 30s and can be broken by piloting error, tethering is infinite and fool proof. Instadock spots are open to piloting errors too, tethering means warp to 0 and you are safe (except bubble, but those don't exist in low). Yes, it's more like POS shields, but those are not the default home for most of the people today.

Tethering can be broken by pilot error, too. It deactivates if you accrue a weapons timer, and if you fly out of range.

I fail to see how an instadock is open to piloting error. You warp to the bookmark at zero, you dock. You can even engage autopilot in the middle of the warp to make the server forcibly dock you without any interaction on your part.

The only difference between being in dock range of a station and being in tethering range is that in the case of a station, you have to hold down the D key and click on the station in order to activate the safety part.

I have a lot of people on my killboard who messed up with docking/undocking ... most poeple don't know/use the autopilot trick, they warp and dock manually, with tethering it's just warp, dock whenever you want, look around, no rush, no stress. With undock the same, today you have max. 30s outside before you are forced to do something to keep yourself safe ...

... basically POS shield security for everyone. BTW, what will be the radius of tethering? Small as for station docking range or large like POS shields?

So, you're saying that people who are unaware of the basic mechanics of safety around a station can get shot?

This doesn't change with tethering. Individual pilots will still be foolhardy, or stupid.

Display some adaptability.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#397 - 2015-10-30 15:33:57 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:

1. When CCP invents a way to prevent piloting mistakes, the universe will produce a better pilot.

Seriously?

FT Diomedes wrote:

2. How are the new structure reinforcement mechanics so different from the POS-reinforcement mechanics, such that a smaller gang will be unable to do something in the future that it can do today?

No difference, that's the point. A small group can do nothing.

FT Diomedes wrote:

3. The "powerful Citadel weaponry" has to be manned in order to present any kind of threat.

Have an alt on standby, docked for that purpose (citadels are the new space coffins)? Compare that to the NPC station guns in low ...

FT Diomedes wrote:

4. If someone goes "inactive" and leaves their new structure unattended for 48 hours, you will be able to kill it and loot the same as you can today. You just won't get the totally free loot pinata because someone forgot to fuel a POS.

And you have to have the fire power, and only in WH. So it is safer?!

I'm my own NPC alt.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#398 - 2015-10-30 16:57:05 UTC
Querns wrote:


So, you're saying that people who are unaware of the basic mechanics of safety around a station can get shot?

This doesn't change with tethering. Individual pilots will still be foolhardy, or stupid.

Display some adaptability.

You missed the point here, I'm not saying people will stop doing risky/stupid things with citadels it just doesn't matter that much anymore because you have a 40-50km wide safety net around your home station plus player manned station guns to defend against any entity not strong enough to reinforce the station. Camping a station in low/high would not be possible anymore as you can't stop people from warping in/out at will (and even in null, I'm not sure how difficult it will be to bubble a 100km wide sphere under station guns). The only left (forced) interaction will be to attack the station itself during their limited engagement window.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#399 - 2015-10-30 17:00:36 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Querns wrote:


So, you're saying that people who are unaware of the basic mechanics of safety around a station can get shot?

This doesn't change with tethering. Individual pilots will still be foolhardy, or stupid.

Display some adaptability.

You missed the point here, I'm not saying people will stop doing risky/stupid things with citadels it just doesn't matter that much anymore because you have a 40-50km wide safety net around your home station plus player manned station guns to defend against any entity not strong enough to reinforce the station. Camping a station in low/high would not be possible anymore as you can't stop people from warping in/out at will (and even in null, I'm not sure how difficult it will be to bubble a 100km wide sphere under station guns). The only left (forced) interaction will be to attack the station itself during their limited engagement window.

I'm failing to see how this is a significant departure from starbases.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#400 - 2015-10-30 17:21:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Querns wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Querns wrote:


So, you're saying that people who are unaware of the basic mechanics of safety around a station can get shot?

This doesn't change with tethering. Individual pilots will still be foolhardy, or stupid.

Display some adaptability.

You missed the point here, I'm not saying people will stop doing risky/stupid things with citadels it just doesn't matter that much anymore because you have a 40-50km wide safety net around your home station plus player manned station guns to defend against any entity not strong enough to reinforce the station. Camping a station in low/high would not be possible anymore as you can't stop people from warping in/out at will (and even in null, I'm not sure how difficult it will be to bubble a 100km wide sphere under station guns). The only left (forced) interaction will be to attack the station itself during their limited engagement window.

I'm failing to see how this is a significant departure from starbases.

Again you missed the point, because it is not much different from starbases defense wise ... but with the twist that outposts (stations) are replaced by them too, and citadels are much more versatile than current starbases (like stations).

I'm my own NPC alt.