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Dev blog: Building your Citadel, one block at a time

First post First post
Author
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#181 - 2015-10-27 12:01:12 UTC
I do not think the XL structure is nearly expensive enough. Needs to use more T1 minerals.

Additionally, the copy time for the BPC's is too short.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#182 - 2015-10-27 12:07:18 UTC
As I understand the changes the new Citadels will eventually replace POSes and POSes will be removed from the game.

Currently if someone wanted to, for example, compress ore in high sec they would probably use a small POS tower and a compression array along with a little fuel. A small POS tower and compression array would cost somewhere in the region of 100 million ISK plus the negligible fuel cost to compress a billion ISK worth of ore.

If in the new system a medium sized Citadel has to be used to complete the same task the outlay will be six BILLION ISK plus costs of additional modules and maybe rigs as well instead of the previous 100 million ISK initial outlay.

So my question is will there be a new structure type other than Citadels to complete tasks such as compression of ore in high sec systems Question

If not I suppose the alternatives are to either allow compression as a service in NPC stations or allow the Rorqual to operate in high sec systems. Unfortunately both of these alternatives come with obvious problems. So I would suggest a new type of smaller structure needs to developed to complete compression of ore in high sec systems.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#183 - 2015-10-27 12:19:46 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
As I understand the changes the new Citadels will eventually replace POSes and POSes will be removed from the game.

Currently if someone wanted to, for example, compress ore in high sec they would probably use a small POS tower and a compression array along with a little fuel. A small POS tower and compression array would cost somewhere in the region of 100 million ISK plus the negligible fuel cost to compress a billion ISK worth of ore.

If in the new system a medium sized Citadel has to be used to complete the same task the outlay will be six BILLION ISK plus costs of additional modules and maybe rigs as well instead of the previous 100 million ISK initial outlay.

So my question is will there be a new structure type other than Citadels to complete tasks such as compression of ore in high sec systems Question

If not I suppose the alternatives are to either allow compression as a service in NPC stations or allow the Rorqual to operate in high sec systems. Unfortunately both of these alternatives come with obvious problems. So I would suggest a new type of smaller structure needs to developed to complete compression of ore in high sec systems.



So, you can afford several billion for a rorqual, but not 600 mil for a medium citadel to compress.......
Gauro Charante
Vile Duck Pond
#184 - 2015-10-27 12:21:35 UTC
Too many people are scared about the cost of the Citadel compared to a small POS (as in just using a compression or maybe some invention etc.). This is NOT the main fucntion of a Citadel. The other new structure will handle that at prolly a fraction of the cost of a Citadel. Like the Mobile Drilling station (or whatever the name was) will handle compresseion of ore and aid mining way more than a Citadel. Yes these structures wont be coming now but neither are the POSes going anywhere so just contunie using them.

What i would like to know, are the POS batteries (guns/ecm and so on) going to maybe be convertd to Citadel guns? Maybe keep the better stats? I know you said that no faction modules will be as of yet, but later on?

Also the cost of the BPOs are not going to really matter, if even just a cuople would be bought now, after a year or so there are so many copies that the prices will be stable. Tou the X-L might be still pretty exotic :)
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2015-10-27 12:23:13 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
As I understand the changes the new Citadels will eventually replace POSes and POSes will be removed from the game.

Currently if someone wanted to, for example, compress ore in high sec they would probably use a small POS tower and a compression array along with a little fuel. A small POS tower and compression array would cost somewhere in the region of 100 million ISK plus the negligible fuel cost to compress a billion ISK worth of ore.

If in the new system a medium sized Citadel has to be used to complete the same task the outlay will be six BILLION ISK plus costs of additional modules and maybe rigs as well instead of the previous 100 million ISK initial outlay.

So my question is will there be a new structure type other than Citadels to complete tasks such as compression of ore in high sec systems Question

If not I suppose the alternatives are to either allow compression as a service in NPC stations or allow the Rorqual to operate in high sec systems. Unfortunately both of these alternatives come with obvious problems. So I would suggest a new type of smaller structure needs to developed to complete compression of ore in high sec systems.



So, you can afford several billion for a rorqual, but not 600 mil for a medium citadel to compress.......


He's mixed up BPO cost with build cost.
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2015-10-27 12:29:15 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Firvain wrote:
[quote=Sizeof Void]Nice of you that you can build one, can you actully defend one too?

Sure, why not?

As is the current case with high-sec POS, if everyone has one, then the chances of yours being singled out and attacked is actually pretty low (unless you are Gevlon and go out of your way to make enemies of the Goons).

POS bashing has never been fun, and I don't think Citadel bashing is going to be significantly more fun, is it? :)


it only takes 30 minuts with a few friends and you stand to lose 70+ billion isk. I am sure i can get 40 friends to spend an hour of Eve 3 times a week to do that no problem
Ottoburner
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#187 - 2015-10-27 12:37:04 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
not that i'm complaining as i lounge upon a stack of trillions of isk but don't you think that 700b might be a bit expensive for the bpo

Dude that is gonna make your ass rich. people with loads of isk will have an easier time getting into what I think will be a lucrative bpc market.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#188 - 2015-10-27 12:47:53 UTC
Justa Hunni wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:

blow up the old one and use asset safety to automove


Except of course if you are in a wormhole since only nullbears and other empire scum get asset protection.

I can't actually tell if you're boasting or complaining, but in the latter case, you can blame the wormhole community for that being the case. Asset safety was originally going to apply to wormholes.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#189 - 2015-10-27 12:49:26 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Querns wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Hmm... I find it interesting that, with one exception, CCP Ytterbium has only been responding to posts by Goons. (The one exception is a TEST post.)

Is everyone else's post simply being ignored? Where are the conspiracy trolls when you need them? lol....

It's because we actually have relevant questions about small details that are easy and possible to answer. Most of the rest of the posting is complaining.

I knew you'd say something like this... ;)

I've always considered myself fairly predictable.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#190 - 2015-10-27 13:06:11 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
As I understand the changes the new Citadels will eventually replace POSes and POSes will be removed from the game.

Currently if someone wanted to, for example, compress ore in high sec they would probably use a small POS tower and a compression array along with a little fuel. A small POS tower and compression array would cost somewhere in the region of 100 million ISK plus the negligible fuel cost to compress a billion ISK worth of ore.

If in the new system a medium sized Citadel has to be used to complete the same task the outlay will be six BILLION ISK plus costs of additional modules and maybe rigs as well instead of the previous 100 million ISK initial outlay.

So my question is will there be a new structure type other than Citadels to complete tasks such as compression of ore in high sec systems Question

If not I suppose the alternatives are to either allow compression as a service in NPC stations or allow the Rorqual to operate in high sec systems. Unfortunately both of these alternatives come with obvious problems. So I would suggest a new type of smaller structure needs to developed to complete compression of ore in high sec systems.



So, you can afford several billion for a rorqual, but not 600 mil for a medium citadel to compress.......


The dev blog price for a medium citadel is stated as six billion ISK and not 600 million. If it was 600 million I wouldn't have raised this issue. Big smile

I could afford a Rorqual but the Rorqual cannot be used currently in high sec. I would not advocate the use of the Rorqual in high sec either with its current stats as that would further collapse the ore/mineral prices.

Relatively new pilots and probably many others would not be able to gather six billion up to access compression in high sec. I am asking for CCP to retain a reasonable, in terms of ISK cost, method of compression and increased reprocessing yield as we currently have with the POS system in high sec systems.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#191 - 2015-10-27 13:11:06 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:

The dev blog price for a medium citadel is stated as six billion ISK and not 600 million. If it was 600 million I wouldn't have raised this issue. Big smile

You're confusing the price for the blueprint and the actual citadel. The built medium citadel will only cost an estimated 600m isk.

You don't need to own the BPO to own a citadel.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#192 - 2015-10-27 13:22:29 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
As I understand the changes the new Citadels will eventually replace POSes and POSes will be removed from the game.

Currently if someone wanted to, for example, compress ore in high sec they would probably use a small POS tower and a compression array along with a little fuel. A small POS tower and compression array would cost somewhere in the region of 100 million ISK plus the negligible fuel cost to compress a billion ISK worth of ore.

If in the new system a medium sized Citadel has to be used to complete the same task the outlay will be six BILLION ISK plus costs of additional modules and maybe rigs as well instead of the previous 100 million ISK initial outlay.

So my question is will there be a new structure type other than Citadels to complete tasks such as compression of ore in high sec systems Question

If not I suppose the alternatives are to either allow compression as a service in NPC stations or allow the Rorqual to operate in high sec systems. Unfortunately both of these alternatives come with obvious problems. So I would suggest a new type of smaller structure needs to developed to complete compression of ore in high sec systems.



So, you can afford several billion for a rorqual, but not 600 mil for a medium citadel to compress.......


The dev blog price for a medium citadel is stated as six billion ISK and not 600 million. If it was 600 million I wouldn't have raised this issue. Big smile

I could afford a Rorqual but the Rorqual cannot be used currently in high sec. I would not advocate the use of the Rorqual in high sec either with its current stats as that would further collapse the ore/mineral prices.

Relatively new pilots and probably many others would not be able to gather six billion up to access compression in high sec. I am asking for CCP to retain a reasonable, in terms of ISK cost, method of compression and increased reprocessing yield as we currently have with the POS system in high sec systems.




Buy a BPC for cheap and build it for 600 mil
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#193 - 2015-10-27 13:23:36 UTC
Gauro Charante wrote:
Too many people are scared about the cost of the Citadel compared to a small POS (as in just using a compression or maybe some invention etc.). This is NOT the main fucntion of a Citadel. The other new structure will handle that at prolly a fraction of the cost of a Citadel. Like the Mobile Drilling station (or whatever the name was) will handle compresseion of ore and aid mining way more than a Citadel. Yes these structures wont be coming now but neither are the POSes going anywhere so just contunie using them.

What i would like to know, are the POS batteries (guns/ecm and so on) going to maybe be convertd to Citadel guns? Maybe keep the better stats? I know you said that no faction modules will be as of yet, but later on?

Also the cost of the BPOs are not going to really matter, if even just a cuople would be bought now, after a year or so there are so many copies that the prices will be stable. Tou the X-L might be still pretty exotic :)


It is highly likely if not certain that the Mobile Drilling Platform structure will be for only null-sec & low sec use and will largely be concerned with moon mining operations. I have asked on the dev blog for the mining platform structures and await a reply. I have also started a new proposal there for a new Mining Outpost structure to enable only compression and the higher POS rate of ore reprocessing in high sec.

Regarding the Citadels it does seem logical to me that they should be used to replace the outposts in nullsec and some other new type of structures should be designed to replace the POSes for use elsewhere in low/WH/high sec systems. This approach makes sense as the outposts are made from similar parts to the new citadels. As opposed to POSes which are made from P4 sourced from planetary interaction. The main reason for these structure changes after all is to get around the old source code which cannot be repaired so that corp/alliance roles & permissions can be fixed. The 'eye candy' element is secondary to this issue.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#194 - 2015-10-27 13:32:06 UTC
Querns wrote:
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:

The dev blog price for a medium citadel is stated as six billion ISK and not 600 million. If it was 600 million I wouldn't have raised this issue. Big smile

You're confusing the price for the blueprint and the actual citadel. The built medium citadel will only cost an estimated 600m isk.

You don't need to own the BPO to own a citadel.


Ugh. OopsOopsOops I really daft now. Apologies to all for my mistakes there. So it will be more expensive to do than currently but not that much more. Problem solved then on that one. Wasted my time typing didn't I . Oops

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#195 - 2015-10-27 13:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Reading the blog again I agree with others that 30 billion-ish is going to be too cheap in terms of ISK available for alliances. I don't know what price they should be but it needs to be more than that.

PS I'm referring to the price of the XL sized citadel.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#196 - 2015-10-27 14:07:04 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Reading the blog again I agree with others that 30 billion-ish is going to be too cheap in terms of ISK available for alliances. I don't know what price they should be but it needs to be more than that.

PS I'm referring to the price of the XL sized citadel.

Good thing the estimated price is more than twice this.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#197 - 2015-10-27 14:10:39 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Reading the blog again I agree with others that 30 billion-ish is going to be too cheap in terms of ISK available for alliances. I don't know what price they should be but it needs to be more than that.

PS I'm referring to the price of the XL sized citadel.



You might want to take some time and read the blog again

You seem to be pulling numbers of out thin air

The numbers are even given to you int he blog, you don't have to calculate anything

XL is estimated to be 70 bil to build and 1-23 bil for rigs

So total is estimated to be 73 to 130 bil depending on rigs, service modules and other fittings will add even more isk
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#198 - 2015-10-27 15:04:23 UTC
Please reconsider needing a freighter to deploy large citadels. There are existing capitals in many low class wormhole systems. Once POS' go away those pilots will either be trapped in their ships, have to self destruct or have to build a land locked freighter, all ofcwhich seem rather burdensome. Alternatively lower class wormholes could be enlargerd to allow freighters through.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#199 - 2015-10-27 15:20:24 UTC
Kynric wrote:
Please reconsider needing a freighter to deploy large citadels. There are existing capitals in many low class wormhole systems. Once POS' go away those pilots will either be trapped in their ships, have to self destruct or have to build a land locked freighter, all ofcwhich seem rather burdensome. Alternatively lower class wormholes could be enlargerd to allow freighters through.


Building a freighter isn't THAT big of a deal. There's no reason to rage about self destructing capitals. Anyone with the ISK and resources to build one or more capitals in C1-C4 space can afford to factor in the cost of a freighter to the cost of your 7-10B ISK citadel.

I'd still like a response to the fact that the Large Citadel is listed at 80km3 which is within the size of an Orca's cargo bay. Is the Freighter restriction a launch restriction (cannot launch from an Orca even if it fits) or a size restriction (in which case the blog is wrong or the size is wrong).
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#200 - 2015-10-27 15:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Winter Archipelago
Kynric wrote:
Please reconsider needing a freighter to deploy large citadels. There are existing capitals in many low class wormhole systems. Once POS' go away those pilots will either be trapped in their ships, have to self destruct or have to build a land locked freighter, all ofcwhich seem rather burdensome. Alternatively lower class wormholes could be enlargerd to allow freighters through.

You can fit a Large in an Orca, which will be cheaper than a freighter (and if you do any mining, you probably already have an Orca or Rorqual).

Any group who have capitals in a C1 should be able to handle the cost of an Orca (or even a Freighter) to set up a large, especially considering the Medium can then be pulled down and sold for almost no loss (or even a net gain if you buy with Buys and sell with Sells).

As for it being a one-use thing, it's only a one-use set-up if you never have your sandcastle knocked over.

Edit :: With so many people complaining about the need for an Orca or Freighter to launch a Large, I'm tempted to resub my Orca pilot (when Citadels are released) for cartage and set-up of Large Citadels in peoples' C2's and C3's. A service where the character would join their corp temporarily and would haul the Citadel into the hole and launch it at the desired location, then leave the hole and move on to the next group. This would require more trust than most wormholers are willing to give, though.