Assembly Hall

Patient, I'm afraid.

Falcon was copy editing a lot of the minutes after work, and on Friday we went out for dinner, which kind of got rid of that time.

ohh never even considered that :D that would be awful... here kids, have this bag full of....... nothing... NDA in your face

Any news on the notes for day 4?

They did talk about EVE Boot(strap) and how it used to work for Mac but now doesn't. So it seems someone did play on a Mac.

EVE Online experience: waiting for something you're almost certain it will not be worth the wait, and yet you just keep checking for news every day out of a tiny hope of being wrong.

I am not bittervet, I am experienced.

If just they contain some nice news about fw (hopefully the removal of the fw plague missions , or at least make lvl 4 not doable in covops frigates), It will suffice.

btw. will reply on the other topic we are discussing, when I have more time available to come up with a proper detailed answer on changes that could benefit.

Sometimes smaller more focused groups are useful. Lots of people saying the same thing leads to that thing being noise, which drowns out signal (because you have to wade through it, even if it's correct, to find other things)

Importantly, this isn't a replacement for CCP posting things for everyone to see. Just an intermediate step, to knock off a few more corners.

Fair points. I think there are allot of pros and cons for the different formats. But I think the most important thing is that the format thoroughly lays out the potential pros and cons of each idea in light of the intended goal for the mechanic.

I would really enjoy participating in any group dealing with faction war sov mechanics. I have offered some ideas that I think such a group should at least consider here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=443997&find=unread

Although they are just tweaks to the current system they deserve quite a bit more discussion. I am fairly convinced that a few of them could really revolutionize faction war and make fighting for fw sov allot more exciting. Not only would this attract and keep new players but it would bring older retired players back to the game.

Mr. Harry Saq

I think the cat is already out of the bag on this. We already have an elite clique advising ccp behind closed doors with very little interaction between the general playerbase. It’s called the csm. Since they do not know everything about the game they just might hand pick some people to help them with different aspects of the game. Right now we don't know who it is they discuss matters with, and why. It’s all very convoluted.

For example as I sit here now I have no idea what most of the members proposed to csm about faction war sov. Sugar Kyle wrote some ideas on her blog but they were fairly minor points. What if the conversation went beyond those minor points? Who knows what she said? And she is the only one who even voiced any sort of opinion on that topic. As for the rest I really have no clue what they are telling ccp. I think many on the csm would admit they really don’’t have much interest in fw sov mechanics and really don’t know much about them. So maybe some of them talked to someone they know in fw and tried to get up to speed a bit. Who did they talk to? What did they say? No one will ever know.

Now I agree the focus groups should not be closed to the players. But there should be some limits on who can post because so many threads in the regular eve o forums and reddit turn to garbage. That is why I suggested players could only pick one or 2 of these specialized topics to post in. The same trolls can’t post in every topic. If you really like an aspect of eve and really thought through that aspect then you would post in that topic. But if you think you know everything about everything then you will have a hard choice to make.

There is a problem with how csm works right now. The other thing this would address is this would allow other players to see what is being said. Even if they can’t post in more than one or 2 topics they should be able to see in the forums. Everything would be much more transparent. Right now I don’t know if I need to check every individual csms blog, plus reddit, plus eve forums, plus townhall plus who knows what to find out about parts of the game that interest me. I am sorry but that is unrealistic to ask players. CCP should have a place where players can go to to see what they are asking for feedback on and read what the feedback is.

I have no time to sit through csm members give their political soundbites during a town hall on topics that usually are of limited interest in this huge game. I would however read with interest the topics that effect the way I play the game.

I think there is very little evidence of this. They might be looking at trends and not posting, who knows? But looking at trends is very different from engaging and asking questions about ideas. I am not really sure what valuable information you could get from looking at trends on these forums anyway. The up vote system is pretty broken and half of the posts are personal digs at people instead of addressing actual ideas for the game.

There is very little engagement from the csm or ccp in the features and ideas, or assembly hall - or really any of the eve online forums. The exception is ccp will talk about what changes they already decided to make in features and ideas or dev blog and then ask for some tweaks from the players.

It seems csm and ccp post more constructive posts outside of the eve-o forums on various blogs and other forums which means players need to go on a scavenger hunt to find out what they are thinking about their area of the game. Actually CCP Leeloo seems to have recognized this and tried to give us a resource to help search the world wide web and see what it is our csm actually think.

I don't claim to know the intentions of csm members, I am sure they are varied. But yes I presume they hope to help eve. But that doesn't mean they have really thought things through. And if they haven't then their effect will just randomize the game. Who do they think things through with? Just random players, and we really don’t know what they are saying. Moreover due to nda and everyone dancing around minutes it might be months before we even know what they told ccp. As a player the disconnect could not be broader. This isn’t tinfoil it’s a fact.
If you disagree, then prove it. Tell me what any csm member other than sugar kyle proposed about faction war. Go ahead search the web and try to see what they think about it. Let me know.

The fact is there is no transparency until after the meeting. We have no clue what they are going to push going into the meeting. Even sugar kyle just mentioned some tweaks to faction war that ccp was considering. She was supposed to actually present something but I don’t think eve players had access to what it was, so they could discuss it *before* it was presented.
This is not to indict of Sugar Kyle or anyone on csm. But it is an indictment of the general way that csm works. And it is why Sion is right. Some things need to change. There has to be more transparency and use of the players' knowledge.

As for ccp I do think they hope to help eve. But as a business owners they face dilemmas of long term or short term benefit. This is exemplified in the fact that players can pay for an extra account and use that alt which is not even in the fight as an off-grid boost, to give their main god mode. Anyone thinking of long term for eve would instantly recognize this is a cancer for the game and have it removed asap. But if you are thinking of short term finances it may be helpful to keep these in. Like many cancers when you allow it stay it will, sooner or later, lead to a rapid decline in health.