These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Galatea] First batch of sov capture iterations

First post First post
Author
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#421 - 2015-08-19 15:36:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Marcus Covinus wrote:
It's hilarious to continue to watch groups like MOA chestbeat like an ape about how great the new sov system is when all they do is troll the system with no intention of actually holding any sov.


I too, have noticed that the only people who are happy about this are those who have no intention of ever holding sov, and are only cheering for punitive mechanics against those who do. Why they're even part of the discussion, I do not know.

It's pretty telling of the system in general. But CCP never did learn to take into account where feedback is coming from.

For me, the really funny part is how literally all of this was foreseen in the first three pages of the entosis announcement, but was ignored in the flood of "grr nullsec" drooling. That's genuinely hilarious.

To be fair, we in the community shoulder part of the burden here -- most of the outcry against interceptors was based on the assumption that they'd be able to fit T2 entosis links. Once that became too punitive to work well, we were content to rest on our laurels.

In the future, it's probably important to keep the pressure on in this regard.

Honestly, I'd like to hear some rationalization for interdiction nullification existing at all in TYOOL 2015 from CCP. However, as it would constitute taking a position on something, I doubt this will happen.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Wolfensrevenge
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#422 - 2015-08-19 15:37:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Marcus Covinus wrote:
It's hilarious to continue to watch groups like MOA chestbeat like an ape about how great the new sov system is when all they do is troll the system with no intention of actually holding any sov.


I too, have noticed that the only people who are happy about this are those who have no intention of ever holding sov, and are only cheering for punitive mechanics against those who do. Why they're even part of the discussion, I do not know.

It's pretty telling of the system in general. But CCP never did learn to take into account where feedback is coming from.

For me, the really funny part is how literally all of this was foreseen in the first three pages of the entosis announcement, but was ignored in the flood of "grr nullsec" drooling. That's genuinely hilarious.



Its true and btw Long live JAMES315 Now a risk free Nullsec is killing eve as well.

Why a Risk-Free Highsec Would Kill EVE Online
Michelle Audier
Doomheim
#423 - 2015-08-19 15:37:43 UTC
The group most responsible for popularizing the use of 'weaponized boredom' disapproves en masse? To me, that implies that CCP is on the right track.

Posting on an alt because I'm ashamed of (almost) all of you - don't want my main(s) tainted with the stench from this thread. Lately, the EVE Online community has been setting new lows for behavior - stop it.
Wolfensrevenge
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#424 - 2015-08-19 15:41:56 UTC
Michelle Audier wrote:
The group most responsible for popularizing the use of 'weaponized boredom' disapproves en masse? To me, that implies that CCP is on the right track.

Posting on an alt because I'm ashamed of (almost) all of you - don't want my main(s) tainted with the stench from this thread. Lately, the EVE Online community has been setting new lows for behavior - stop it.



I smell a salty super pilot.Roll
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#425 - 2015-08-19 15:42:43 UTC
Michelle Audier wrote:
The group most responsible for popularizing the use of 'weaponized boredom' disapproves en masse? To me, that implies that CCP is on the right track.

Posting on an alt because I'm ashamed of (almost) all of you - don't want my main(s) tainted with the stench from this thread. Lately, the EVE Online community has been setting new lows for behavior - stop it.


If you only base your opinion on the system on who is or is not against it, then you don't really have an opinion at all. You're just a lemming with huge blinders on, like most anyone who defines themselves solely in opposition to something.

Also, I would like to reiterate the old idea of banning NPC corp posters from every forum but New Citizens. Just throwing it out there.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Wolfensrevenge
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#426 - 2015-08-19 15:45:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Michelle Audier wrote:
The group most responsible for popularizing the use of 'weaponized boredom' disapproves en masse? To me, that implies that CCP is on the right track.

Posting on an alt because I'm ashamed of (almost) all of you - don't want my main(s) tainted with the stench from this thread. Lately, the EVE Online community has been setting new lows for behavior - stop it.


If you only base your opinion on the system on who is or is not against it, then you don't really have an opinion at all. You're just a lemming with huge blinders on, like most anyone who defines themselves solely in opposition to something.

Also, I would like to reiterate the old idea of banning NPC corp posters from every forum but New Citizens. Just throwing it out there.



Agreed risk free posting is just as bad as risk free pvp.Blink
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#427 - 2015-08-19 15:49:23 UTC
Wolfensrevenge wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Michelle Audier wrote:
The group most responsible for popularizing the use of 'weaponized boredom' disapproves en masse? To me, that implies that CCP is on the right track.

Posting on an alt because I'm ashamed of (almost) all of you - don't want my main(s) tainted with the stench from this thread. Lately, the EVE Online community has been setting new lows for behavior - stop it.


If you only base your opinion on the system on who is or is not against it, then you don't really have an opinion at all. You're just a lemming with huge blinders on, like most anyone who defines themselves solely in opposition to something.

Also, I would like to reiterate the old idea of banning NPC corp posters from every forum but New Citizens. Just throwing it out there.



Agreed risk free posting is just as bad as risk free pvp.Blink


I'm not talking about risk, I'm talking about one particular demographic that is most commonly used for trolling. NPC corp alts.

Anyway, regarding the sov system. Does anyone else think that a full rebalance of the Dreadnaught class is in order at this point? With the incoming rollout of citadel structures to replace POSes, all of which will also require the jesus laser to contest, the Dreadnaught has just had it's one and only role in the game very literally removed.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#428 - 2015-08-19 15:51:15 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Wolfensrevenge wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Michelle Audier wrote:
The group most responsible for popularizing the use of 'weaponized boredom' disapproves en masse? To me, that implies that CCP is on the right track.

Posting on an alt because I'm ashamed of (almost) all of you - don't want my main(s) tainted with the stench from this thread. Lately, the EVE Online community has been setting new lows for behavior - stop it.


If you only base your opinion on the system on who is or is not against it, then you don't really have an opinion at all. You're just a lemming with huge blinders on, like most anyone who defines themselves solely in opposition to something.

Also, I would like to reiterate the old idea of banning NPC corp posters from every forum but New Citizens. Just throwing it out there.



Agreed risk free posting is just as bad as risk free pvp.Blink


I'm not talking about risk, I'm talking about one particular demographic that is most commonly used for trolling. NPC corp alts.

Anyway, regarding the sov system. Does anyone else think that a full rebalance of the Dreadnaught class is in order at this point? With the incoming rollout of citadel structures to replace POSes, all of which will also require the jesus laser to contest, the Dreadnaught has just had it's one and only role in the game very literally removed.


Dreads are useful in killing the supers...... that no one will be using because of Aegis Sov.

Damn Big smile
Spacial Girl
south pole correlation.
#429 - 2015-08-19 15:59:26 UTC
Balthusdire Dominus wrote:
The speed limitation while helpful doesn't solve the underlying problem of no risk to an attacker.

Good to see things moving forward. I think fozzie sov can be fun, just needs some more work.


They'll still be unable to warp, and attackers can feast on their 4k/ms souls. Any reasonably fit ceptor/T3dessi should catch them.
ToXicPaIN
Souls of Steel
#430 - 2015-08-19 15:59:37 UTC
4000m/s is still to fast ...

knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#431 - 2015-08-19 16:00:10 UTC
Michelle Audier wrote:
The group most responsible for popularizing the use of 'weaponized boredom' disapproves en masse? To me, that implies that CCP is on the right track.

Posting on an alt because I'm ashamed of (almost) all of you - don't want my main(s) tainted with the stench from this thread. Lately, the EVE Online community has been setting new lows for behavior - stop it.


There is a difference between using a strategy in a sandbox game and a mechanic which doesn't suit it's intended purpose. Many in the Imperium like the underlying concepts of Fozziesov, however can't get round the whole why is the trollceptor still a thing. It's not like the Imperium couldn't abuse the **** out of it as well. Just imagine if Mittens decrees that every Imperium member must be bought a trollceptor and we should go forth and sovlaser every node in every system just to prove the point that trollceptors is a terrible idea.

I guess you'll still think they are a good idea because you simply can't agree with the in-game bad guys. I guess money moons were a good idea as well and that Ishtars were balanced a year ago too?
Wolfensrevenge
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#432 - 2015-08-19 16:00:28 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Wolfensrevenge wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Michelle Audier wrote:
The group most responsible for popularizing the use of 'weaponized boredom' disapproves en masse? To me, that implies that CCP is on the right track.

Posting on an alt because I'm ashamed of (almost) all of you - don't want my main(s) tainted with the stench from this thread. Lately, the EVE Online community has been setting new lows for behavior - stop it.


If you only base your opinion on the system on who is or is not against it, then you don't really have an opinion at all. You're just a lemming with huge blinders on, like most anyone who defines themselves solely in opposition to something.

Also, I would like to reiterate the old idea of banning NPC corp posters from every forum but New Citizens. Just throwing it out there.



Agreed risk free posting is just as bad as risk free pvp.Blink


I'm not talking about risk, I'm talking about one particular demographic that is most commonly used for trolling. NPC corp alts.

Anyway, regarding the sov system. Does anyone else think that a full rebalance of the Dreadnaught class is in order at this point? With the incoming rollout of citadel structures to replace POSes, all of which will also require the jesus laser to contest, the Dreadnaught has just had it's one and only role in the game very literally removed.


Not sure what needs to be done here but we have used dreads just last week to kill triage carriers on a node. It was a great fight and they were needed but i would like to see something done about carrier damage now that the need to be on field to get fighters on grid.. the DPS from a carrier to a super is just silly.... 2 battleships can do carrier dps and project it better in most cases... I think most dreads are fine atm but carriers are really bad as far as being combat fit (not just for reps) but then again i think battleships need a damage buff as well.... I dont think CCP will do this for fear Nullbears will make to much isk and use more plex to sub their accounts.... Tinfoil hat activate.Shocked But realy most cruisers can do Battleship dps that seems wrong in almost every way considering your trading a ton of maneuverability.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#433 - 2015-08-19 16:03:38 UTC
So in the spirit of limiting things, why not limit the amount of people a defender can bring to a SoV system fight.

50 would be a good starting point.

If you think speed for a single pilot is a problem then corp, alliance, and coalition power certainly is.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#434 - 2015-08-19 16:03:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

I too, have noticed that the only people who are happy about this are those who have no intention of ever holding sov, and are only cheering for punitive mechanics against those who do. Why they're even part of the discussion, I do not know.



Oh, I think you do sir (this is best read in Sherlock Holmes voice).

Same reason they were so happy at the announcement of siphons, they thought it it was a chance for the marginal/disenfranchised/impotent types to FINALLY strike at the "big bads" that they otherwise couldn't touch.

As it was then, it will be again , silence when the people who thought they were getting something find out that the changes only make the big bad blob people even stronger than they were before.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to killing NPCs by the boatload in my fortress like solar system made fortress like by my killing of boatloads of npcs.
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#435 - 2015-08-19 16:11:44 UTC
So after thinking about it a bit, why do nodes spawn constellation wide? How does this make sense? I think a better solution would be to have nodes spawn in the system attacked and the directly adjacent systems. This would keep the action close to the contested system but still spread it out enough to allow for the multiple front fight this system was supposed to deliver. There also needs to be EHP events still in game, I hope that they go back and look at the Citadels and change how the capture evens on these happen.

I am still very much not happy with the way this new system works because it has turned null sec into mining and ratting online just to make your space somewhat safe then after you do that all day you don't even want to experience the rest of eve. Slow the decay of mining and ratting. I am leaning to the side of buffer systems are a bad thing and alliances that can live in these systems shouldn't try to hold on to these. Maybe it is from the old way of thinking but there still need to be more carrots in Sov Null for the players and Alliance to want to hold onto the space you have.

I did have a thought about system generating a daily isk payout that would be paid to the Alliance/Corp owning that system at DT to give a reason to hold space. I know everyone and their brother are against passive free isk but there needs to be something unique to Sov Null that no other area of space has and right now we just do not have it. I think that is the biggest problem right now is besides super cap production which is cool but is not all that meaningful in the new system null has nothing to call its own, WH have T3 material, LS has FW LP Hi Sec and NPC Null has Mission agents, what does null have right now that is special for us. Maybe what could be done is a material that can only be sourced in null for the production of new deployables a gas or new material that needs to be harvested by players at first or a deployable structure made with (PI and this new material) placed there to mine the material like a giant vacuum cleaner. Have this site spawn in different systems as it is depleted but always 1 to 2 per constellation but only despawn if it is completely mined. This is then both a carrot for the members/alliance but also a clear content generation point as if you want to go the unmanned route in your fringe areas you might lose your structure and your potential income.
Wolfensrevenge
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#436 - 2015-08-19 16:13:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

I too, have noticed that the only people who are happy about this are those who have no intention of ever holding sov, and are only cheering for punitive mechanics against those who do. Why they're even part of the discussion, I do not know.



Oh, I think you do sir (this is best read in Sherlock Holmes voice).

Same reason they were so happy at the announcement of siphons, they thought it it was a chance for the marginal/disenfranchised/impotent types to FINALLY strike at the "big bads" that they otherwise couldn't touch.

As it was then, it will be again , silence when the people who thought they were getting something find out that the changes only make the big bad blob people even stronger than they were before.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to killing NPCs by the boatload in my fortress like solar system made fortress like by my killing of boatloads of npcs.



Npc's should be removed from the game. No more farming crosses. Mine something build something or kill something worth isk. if you cant do any of these buy a plex or mine a moon. true content from players only.
maldearth
S.W.A.M.P.
#437 - 2015-08-19 16:18:14 UTC
Warmeister wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
So you believe it was around may the drop was bigger than usual? I wonder what dev blog was released in may. We've know the changes are coming for a long time and people have been gradually dropping off since then. Announcements of the mechanics then implementation are more than likely driving the decline.

the drop was end of may, not beginning. are you implying it took eve community a whole month to read it and decide they aren't going to play?

here are the reasons why i think that blog isn't related to drop at all:

1) 1 month time difference




I'll take - what is the smallest length subscription for 1000 Alex.
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#438 - 2015-08-19 16:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrink Collie
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

I too, have noticed that the only people who are happy about this are those who have no intention of ever holding sov, and are only cheering for punitive mechanics against those who do. Why they're even part of the discussion, I do not know.



Oh, I think you do sir (this is best read in Sherlock Holmes voice).

Same reason they were so happy at the announcement of siphons, they thought it it was a chance for the marginal/disenfranchised/impotent types to FINALLY strike at the "big bads" that they otherwise couldn't touch.

As it was then, it will be again , silence when the people who thought they were getting something find out that the changes only make the big bad blob people even stronger than they were before.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to killing NPCs by the boatload in my fortress like solar system made fortress like by my killing of boatloads of npcs.


Actually, I have an opinion about the siphons. They would have been a cool harassment tool in theory; however, CCP decided to allow API data track whenever a siphon was set up on a POS. One of the dumbest decisions ever, since it allowed groups to idly track for siphons without keeping an eye on the POS. Totally killed the siphon as a proper harassment tool.

As for who is crying and who is cheering, it isn't that cut and dry.... though Imperium is generally against it and smaller groups are more along the wait and see camp. Smile
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#439 - 2015-08-19 16:31:57 UTC
Spacial Girl wrote:
Balthusdire Dominus wrote:
The speed limitation while helpful doesn't solve the underlying problem of no risk to an attacker.

Good to see things moving forward. I think fozzie sov can be fun, just needs some more work.


They'll still be unable to warp, and attackers can feast on their 4k/ms souls. Any reasonably fit ceptor/T3dessi should catch them.


Wrong, have you heard about grid mechanics? Have you even noticed that in the amount of time for the hostile to enter system and land on the sov structure grid, the trollceptor is either very close to breaking grid and disappearing or has already disappeared from the grid?

Yeah.
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#440 - 2015-08-19 16:36:31 UTC
ToXicPaIN wrote:
4000m/s is still to fast ...



People are uselss if they cant catch a ceptor with max 4k m/s and that cant warp.
If you cant do that, all I cant think is that you dont have mwd skills cos you should be able to do this easy even with a frigate or even a cruiser. You dont need a ceptor. And if you still can not do this, well I can only think something is really wrong not with the game but with the pilot....