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Lets have a Mining Revamp Devs!?
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Myth Shor
Angelic CO
#121 - 2015-07-21 00:43:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:

I call BS, if that was true, why go after miners then?


You really can't think of a reason?



Because they are cowards.......all they do is gang helpless ships in mass.

Any one who might even able to shoot back they run and hide.

CODE will never be anything more then a bully who picks on the little guy that why thry will never hold SOV, you have to fight for that something CODE knows little about.......
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#122 - 2015-07-21 01:08:24 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Ok, so FozzieSov has hit, and i'm ok with it, not overjoyed, its 'ok'.
The real question is, whats the next thing? If I could decide, it would have to be a mining revamp.
Mining makes EvE turn round, without the minerals that are mined, we wouldn't have the ships to die gloriously and as a miner / maker, i feel that mining has been neglected.
There have been multple great idea suggested in the F&I area, from comet mining to capital mining ships (I support both).
CCP did a good job on industry, but left the job half finished by not touching mining, so lets have a facelift.


Not to mentioned also that PI need something need to be done about it as well.

And CCP Fozzie knows about it also.

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#123 - 2015-07-21 01:21:12 UTC
45thtiger 0109 wrote:

Not to mentioned also that PI need something need to be done about it as well.

And CCP Fozzie knows about it also.


PI is easy.
Districts already exist, as do 'slots' from the Dust map design.
So your 'District' becomes your 'hull'
'Slots' become your primary fittings.
And you get some secondary fittings also to supplement and alter them.

Just like they are talking about with Citadels/Other structures.

Then work out a conquest way that always requires at least some EVE side play and can also be done 100% EVE side (Dust involvement is fine as an option, but not as a compulsory). And that requires a wardec for highsec.
Planet allowance gets replaced with district allowance.

And you now have a non click fest PI system which you then use similar to Industry to select an output and set the queue going. And that can be wardecced to block so it's no longer 100% risk free.

Mining doesn't really need much of an update, since all the proposal minigames become click fests, and click fests are bad.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#124 - 2015-07-21 01:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Unezka Turigahl
- Remove static belts and mining anomalies and replace them with clusters of roids randomly spawning throughout system.

- Roid clusters are found by using the survey scanner, this will give you various heat overlays of the system showing you areas with concentrations of each mineral. Different mineral overlays are selected by right clicking on survey scanner and selecting appropriate script. Scripts are built-in to the module, don't need to carry them in cargo. Can manipulate sliders on system map to pinpoint highest yields, kinda like PI.

- Roid clusters can show up in planet rings, system wide rings, or random pockets. You can not scan down deposits with probes, but you can scan down ships in them with combat probes. Warp-in nodes found with survey scanner are usually located around larger roids, depending on random luck may be closer or farther to ore you were actually trying to reach.

- Roids are no longer specific, they can have multiple types of ore in them. Use survey scanner to get heat overlay map on the roids in vicinity to see where your target ore is. Vast numbers of dummy roids with nothing of value, requiring you to move through field of roids and search for the good stuff. Many roid deposits are HUGE but mostly useless (planet rings, system-wide rings). Desired ore is extracted from roid by positioning laser over the ore. Some are inside roid and must be dug out. Minecraft!

- Roids have a structural integrity readout. You can end up making a roid unstable in the process of mining it. It's like Jenga. Holes eaten into roids where you mine. If a roid collapses, all remaining ores in it are lost.

- Roids can also have volatile substances in them. If you mine a volatile node, an explosion travels up your laser beam damaging your ship. Maybe in the form of heat damage to your modules? Can end up blowing out a laser. If you collapse a roid that contains a volatile node, then the roid explodes with an area effect splash damage to ship hulls within X distance. Thus one miner can blow up a roid another miner is working on, damaging them. This allows miners to legally "attack" each other in hisec.

- Mining ships are made faster, more agile, and with greater capacitor, since they will now be required to travel across systems and through out roid deposits in order to reach ores. They need to be able to fit MWDs for the huge planet/system rings.

- Maybe there are some rare anomalies that show up from time to time. Like the black monolith. They have various effects on the grid they are on. Like disabling d-scanning into the grid, effectively giving all ships inside the special ability of the combat recon ships. Obviously grid-specific effects are not possible at the moment, but may be possible one day? CCP has said they want this for Command Ships. Could have an anomaly that increases the number of volatile nodes in the area, and increases their damage output. Twisted

I guess poisonous gas clouds could be a type of random "anomaly" that is currently possible. Requires miners to fit an active tank in that area or bring logi pilots.
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#125 - 2015-07-21 04:14:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaely Tanniss
Myth Shor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:

I call BS, if that was true, why go after miners then?


You really can't think of a reason?



Because they are cowards.......all they do is gang helpless ships in mass.

Any one who might even able to shoot back they run and hide.

CODE will never be anything more then a bully who picks on the little guy that why thry will never hold SOV, you have to fight for that something CODE knows little about.......


Is that so? Obviously your knowlege of Code is limited to the whiny rhetoric you've heard. I assure you, Code does a lot more than gank...and Code shoots countless ships "that shoot back". This I can personally assure you. Blink

Code doesn't what now? Do you even Eve?

Take your uneducated, ignorant hatred someplace else and stop listening to what other people say. Learn the facts for yourself. It's as simple as looking at a killboard or...wait for it....researching things yourself. CCP has given players countless tools to both learn and prevent/lessen danger...if you can't or choose not to use them, there is no one to blame but yourself. Roll

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Major Triscuits
Doomheim
#126 - 2015-07-21 04:22:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Triscuits
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Myth Shor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:

I call BS, if that was true, why go after miners then?


You really can't think of a reason?



Because they are cowards.......all they do is gang helpless ships in mass.

Any one who might even able to shoot back they run and hide.

CODE will never be anything more then a bully who picks on the little guy that why thry will never hold SOV, you have to fight for that something CODE knows little about.......


Is that so? Obviously your knowlege of Code is limited to the whiny rhetoric you've heard. I assure you, Code does a lot more than gank...and Code shoots countless ships "that shoot back". This I can personally assure you. Blink

Code doesn't what now? Do you even Eve?

Take your uneducated, ignorant hatred someplace else and stop listening to what other people say. Learn the facts for yourself. It's as simple as looking at a killboard or...wait for it....researching things yourself. CCP has given players countless tools to both learn and prevent/lessen danger...if you can't or choose not to use them, there is no one to blame but yourself. Roll


That's quite a rant. Do you do this to every person who talks about CODE.?
Lady Areola Fappington
#127 - 2015-07-21 04:51:23 UTC
Myth Shor wrote:


Because they are cowards.......all they do is gang helpless ships in mass.

Any one who might even able to shoot back they run and hide.

CODE will never be anything more then a bully who picks on the little guy that why thry will never hold SOV, you have to fight for that something CODE knows little about.......



Whelp, if CODE and the like will never be anything, can't fight, can't hold sov, etc, then all the shouting demanding that ganking and bumping be nerfed can be ignored, right?

I mean, nerfing a play style that, by your own admission here, amounts to having no impact in the game is kind of silly.

Also, sweetiepie, there are plenty of CODE member show belong to sov holding alliances, who run strategic level FC roams, do industrial stuff, run Red Frog shipments....don't be a dummy and confuse a character for a person.



Now, for those new to the party and unaware, this is an example of the doublethink and cognitive dissonance that anti-CODE/anti-ganking carebears get into. Even though gankers are, by carebear words, totally worthless and have no effect on the game, gankers should ALSO be nerfed into the ground, normally due to the huge impact on sub numbers that gankers are blamed for.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#128 - 2015-07-21 05:59:34 UTC
I'm only posting in GD because Kaely...

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome
Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#129 - 2015-07-21 06:08:32 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
- Remove static belts and mining anomalies and replace them with clusters of roids randomly spawning throughout system.

- Roid clusters are found by using the survey scanner, this will give you various heat overlays of the system showing you areas with concentrations of each mineral. Different mineral overlays are selected by right clicking on survey scanner and selecting appropriate script. Scripts are built-in to the module, don't need to carry them in cargo. Can manipulate sliders on system map to pinpoint highest yields, kinda like PI.

- Roid clusters can show up in planet rings, system wide rings, or random pockets. You can not scan down deposits with probes, but you can scan down ships in them with combat probes. Warp-in nodes found with survey scanner are usually located around larger roids, depending on random luck may be closer or farther to ore you were actually trying to reach.

- Roids are no longer specific, they can have multiple types of ore in them. Use survey scanner to get heat overlay map on the roids in vicinity to see where your target ore is. Vast numbers of dummy roids with nothing of value, requiring you to move through field of roids and search for the good stuff. Many roid deposits are HUGE but mostly useless (planet rings, system-wide rings). Desired ore is extracted from roid by positioning laser over the ore. Some are inside roid and must be dug out. Minecraft!

- Roids have a structural integrity readout. You can end up making a roid unstable in the process of mining it. It's like Jenga. Holes eaten into roids where you mine. If a roid collapses, all remaining ores in it are lost.

- Roids can also have volatile substances in them. If you mine a volatile node, an explosion travels up your laser beam damaging your ship. Maybe in the form of heat damage to your modules? Can end up blowing out a laser. If you collapse a roid that contains a volatile node, then the roid explodes with an area effect splash damage to ship hulls within X distance. Thus one miner can blow up a roid another miner is working on, damaging them. This allows miners to legally "attack" each other in hisec.

- Mining ships are made faster, more agile, and with greater capacitor, since they will now be required to travel across systems and through out roid deposits in order to reach ores. They need to be able to fit MWDs for the huge planet/system rings.

- Maybe there are some rare anomalies that show up from time to time. Like the black monolith. They have various effects on the grid they are on. Like disabling d-scanning into the grid, effectively giving all ships inside the special ability of the combat recon ships. Obviously grid-specific effects are not possible at the moment, but may be possible one day? CCP has said they want this for Command Ships. Could have an anomaly that increases the number of volatile nodes in the area, and increases their damage output. Twisted

I guess poisonous gas clouds could be a type of random "anomaly" that is currently possible. Requires miners to fit an active tank in that area or bring logi pilots.


At first I was wut? But on second read I like some of these ideas. Combining exploring with mining is cool. Great use for the Prospect.

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#130 - 2015-07-21 06:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaely Tanniss
Major Triscuits wrote:
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Myth Shor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:

I call BS, if that was true, why go after miners then?


You really can't think of a reason?



Because they are cowards.......all they do is gang helpless ships in mass.

Any one who might even able to shoot back they run and hide.

CODE will never be anything more then a bully who picks on the little guy that why thry will never hold SOV, you have to fight for that something CODE knows little about.......


Is that so? Obviously your knowlege of Code is limited to the whiny rhetoric you've heard. I assure you, Code does a lot more than gank...and Code shoots countless ships "that shoot back". This I can personally assure you. Blink

Code doesn't what now? Do you even Eve?

Take your uneducated, ignorant hatred someplace else and stop listening to what other people say. Learn the facts for yourself. It's as simple as looking at a killboard or...wait for it....researching things yourself. CCP has given players countless tools to both learn and prevent/lessen danger...if you can't or choose not to use them, there is no one to blame but yourself. Roll


That's quite a rant. Do you do this to every person who talks about CODE.?


Oh that's funny. No...I usually shoot them..unless they drop corp or hide in the dock..then i just sling witty insults and banter at them in local..kinda like an AG. Blink

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Mira Robinson
#131 - 2015-07-21 07:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Mira Robinson
Well, this thread was a nice read.

As a career miner who no longer actively plays (last month on a deactivated yearly sub), I cannot help but shake my head at the people that complain about CODE. Anyone who whines about how entitled religious they are clearly do not know their modus operandi.

Tears. Reactions. Publicity. That's the goal in their crosshairs. And you people give to them in such droves that they rarely have to work for it.

While I was an active player, I played paranoid. Aligned, at the keyboard, with both an Orca and Hulk, and never once lost a barge to a New Order Agent, or any other ganker. I've chatted with them both in-game and on MinerBumping, and I can assure you that behind the keyboard is a perfectly competent and civilized person.

It's role play. Arrogant, pompous, cult-focused role play.

And it's effective, and damned genius.

When you look at the whole picture, it's easy to see through. Even the permits are worthless, and part of the role play. If you mined with your eyes glued to local, aligned, and paranoid, or "following the code", you'd have no need for a Mining Permit in your bio in the first place.

I have not logged in to the client in months. But you know what I have done almost every single day for two years? Gone to their site for the latest story. Dare I say that the content and stories the New Order produces are more interesting than actually logging into the game, for a retired carebear such as myself, who has found greener, less emergent pastures in a theme-park science fiction MMO.

So go ahead, complain about CODE. I can think of nothing more useless.

So now on-topic. I don't believe mining can be saved. Strip away the player interaction and cutthroat nature of the community, and you are left with what is admittedly very aged, very dull gameplay. Any effective change to mining would probably make it more immersive than any other activity in the game, and I doubt CCP, or the PVPer's would take kindly to that.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Avi Shekelstien
Doomheim
#132 - 2015-07-21 08:17:05 UTC
Removing all the nerfs to ganking that were brought about by tearful miners would be a start.
Lady Areola Fappington
#133 - 2015-07-21 08:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Areola Fappington
Mira Robinson wrote:
Well, this thread was a nice read.

As a career miner who no longer actively plays (last month on a deactivated yearly sub), I cannot help but shake my head at the people that complain about CODE. Anyone who whines about how entitled religious they are clearly do not know their modus operandi.

Tears. Reactions. Publicity. That's the goal in their crosshairs. And you people give to them in such droves that they rarely have to work for it.

While I was an active player, I played paranoid. Aligned, at the keyboard, with both an Orca and Hulk, and never once lost a barge to a New Order Agent, or any other ganker. I've chatted with them both in-game and on MinerBumping, and I can assure you that behind the keyboard is a perfectly competent and civilized person.

It's role play. Arrogant, pompous, cult-focused role play.

And it's effective, and damned genius.

When you look at the whole picture, it's easy to see through. Even the permits are worthless, and part of the role play. If you mined with your eyes glued to local, aligned, and paranoid, or "following the code", you'd have no need for a Mining Permit in your bio in the first place.

I have not logged in to the client in months. But you know what I have done almost every single day for two years? Gone to their site for the latest story. Dare I say that the content and stories the New Order produces are more interesting than actually logging into the game, for a retired carebear such as myself, who has found greener, less emergent pastures in a theme-park science fiction MMO.

So go ahead, complain about CODE. I can think of nothing more useless.

So now on-topic. I don't believe mining can be saved. Strip away the player interaction and cutthroat nature of the community, and you are left with what is admittedly very aged, very dull gameplay. Any effective change to mining would probably make it more immersive than any other activity in the game, and I doubt CCP, or the PVPer's would take kindly to that.



Nail on the head, you've hit it.

Best part of it all, CODE has effectively monetized tears and complaining. Every rage filled post, insulting eve mail, all that gets turned into funny content and posted. That in turn generates more ISK in donations.

If nobody spazzed out an getting ganked, code would have nothing to work with. There are very few people out there willing to throw out ISK just for miner kills. There are tons of people out there who will part with it on the chance of funnys happening.

So yes miners, keep the hate flowing, it fills the coffers nicely.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#134 - 2015-07-21 08:30:44 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
Well, this thread was a nice read.

As a career miner who no longer actively plays (last month on a deactivated yearly sub), I cannot help but shake my head at the p Any effective change to mining would probably make it more immersive than any other activity in the game, and I doubt CCP, or the PVPer's would take kindly to that.


I would. Anything other than PvP immunity that makes EVE's non combat activities less awful would be an outstanding change. And a decade overdue.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jacques d'Orleans
#135 - 2015-07-21 08:33:24 UTC
Myth Shor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:

I call BS, if that was true, why go after miners then?


You really can't think of a reason?



Because they are cowards.......all they do is gang helpless ships in mass.

Any one who might even able to shoot back they run and hide.

CODE will never be anything more then a bully who picks on the little guy that why thry will never hold SOV, you have to fight for that something CODE knows little about.......



All you have lost are 4 Rookie ships and one Pod in Low Sec, so how does CODE affect you anyways?
Alt detected?

And btw, calling CODE, Bullys, just shows that you don't have the slightest clue what Bully really means.
It makes you just sound like a butthurt whiny brat, tbh.

Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
Mira Robinson
#136 - 2015-07-21 08:37:53 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
Well, this thread was a nice read.

As a career miner who no longer actively plays (last month on a deactivated yearly sub), I cannot help but shake my head at the p Any effective change to mining would probably make it more immersive than any other activity in the game, and I doubt CCP, or the PVPer's would take kindly to that.


I would. Anything other than PvP immunity that makes EVE's non combat activities less awful would be an outstanding change. And a decade overdue.


And something a decade overdue isn't likely to be coming.

Any meaningful change to mining, or any PVE-related activity is not going to bring masses of players back, simply because the PVP crowd works very hard to ensure that the lives of PVE-oriented players are hell.

Not that I'm blaming them. Eve is a PVP niche game.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2015-07-21 09:38:30 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
I don't see the need for a change. When people intentionally cripple their own gameplay, the last thing such gameplay needs is a buff or a nerf.


And yet they just buffed AFK anom ratting in null, which has been statistically proven to be 2.73 times more bear-ish than mining. So i guess CCP is fine with people intentionally crippling their own gameplay...
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2015-07-21 09:41:18 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:

Any meaningful change to mining, or any PVE-related activity is not going to bring masses of players back, simply because the PVP crowd works very hard to ensure that the lives of PVE-oriented players are hell.

Not that I'm blaming them. Eve is a PVP niche game.


I dunno, the null bears sounded pretty excited about the "team PvE" content CCP wants to bring to 0.0.
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2015-07-21 11:15:26 UTC
Knowing CCP, they'll create a new mining platform similar to what they did with reprocessing of the ores. Mining in high sec will yield x amount of ore in y amount of time while low sec will offer more ore in a faster time frame while null will be the most ore and fastest cycle times. Skills will get revamped to amount to nothing, or something so asinine to be pointless. Thus a fully trained miner in high sec will be out mined by a brand new player deep in null sec. The ships will become even more cookie cutter in design - taking the edge off the "bonuses" they offer now. The Orca will have its ore hold reduced, and the Rorqual will still be useless overall. An option for the tech 2 variety mining ships will be introduced - overheating your lasers for a faster yield while rendering your ship completely blank of resistance bonuses. A "bug" will follow that notifies the nearest Code member such an act is occurring and even offers an exact location of said ship.

As others have said, I used to have fun mining, but now it is whatever. It is not the act of mining that got to me, but the constant bombardment of being told I am playing the game wrong. Okay - whatever tough guy.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#140 - 2015-07-21 20:38:54 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:

Best part of it all, CODE has effectively monetized tears and complaining. Every rage filled post, insulting eve mail, all that gets turned into funny content and posted. That in turn generates more ISK in donations.

If nobody spazzed out an getting ganked, code would have nothing to work with. There are very few people out there willing to throw out ISK just for miner kills. There are tons of people out there who will part with it on the chance of funnys happening.

So yes miners, keep the hate flowing, it fills the coffers nicely.

Amazing~~

What a setup.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?