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Lets have a Mining Revamp Devs!?

Author
Kestral Anneto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#101 - 2015-07-15 15:09:07 UTC
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
I like how the OP completely glossed over my on point, relevant and totally applicable post in this thread.

CODE. is your mining revamp.

Adapt or die.


ok then, come out into null and gank me then. CODE isn't a mining mechanic revamp, it is a symptom of the problem, whihc is ming is to easy to afk.


The only thing we're a symptom of is impending change to Highsec. You keep beating this null drum when null isn't in need of saving. Why don't you come on out to highsec and mine here? I bet I know why; because of us. We are the biggest and single most effective change to mining since we all started our Saviors work.

We do plenty of work in null and low. You should check our alliance killboard.


I dont mine in high because its not worth it, the mins are crap, plus i build capitals, so yeah, not happening in high, and i wouldn't do it in low.
Yet again, a CODE guy thinking that they have SO much influence on the game.
So then, if you do 'plenty' of work in low and null, when was the last time CODE fielded a capital fleet?
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2015-07-15 15:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
afk mining is fine. People cripple themselves that way using low yield ships. The balance comes from atk miners who remove roids right from under the nose of afk miners. Lol

Removing mining as afk activity is a bad idea in general. Too many people rely on it and they are content that keeps others playing. And your childish attitude towards people who play the game as intended discourages any proper replies.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#103 - 2015-07-15 15:12:38 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
I like how the OP completely glossed over my on point, relevant and totally applicable post in this thread.

CODE. is your mining revamp.

Adapt or die.


ok then, come out into null and gank me then. CODE isn't a mining mechanic revamp, it is a symptom of the problem, whihc is ming is to easy to afk.


The only thing we're a symptom of is impending change to Highsec. You keep beating this null drum when null isn't in need of saving. Why don't you come on out to highsec and mine here? I bet I know why; because of us. We are the biggest and single most effective change to mining since we all started our Saviors work.

We do plenty of work in null and low. You should check our alliance killboard.


I dont mine in high because its not worth it, the mins are crap, plus i build capitals, so yeah, not happening in high, and i wouldn't do it in low.
Yet again, a CODE guy thinking that they have SO much influence on the game.
So then, if you do 'plenty' of work in low and null, when was the last time CODE fielded a capital fleet?


...because fielding caps is all null is about, right? And if highsec mining were so invaluable, how did Chribba get so rich?

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2015-07-15 15:14:21 UTC
Freya Sertan wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
I like how the OP completely glossed over my on point, relevant and totally applicable post in this thread.

CODE. is your mining revamp.

Adapt or die.


ok then, come out into null and gank me then. CODE isn't a mining mechanic revamp, it is a symptom of the problem, whihc is ming is to easy to afk.


The only thing we're a symptom of is impending change to Highsec. You keep beating this null drum when null isn't in need of saving. Why don't you come on out to highsec and mine here? I bet I know why; because of us. We are the biggest and single most effective change to mining since we all started our Saviors work.

We do plenty of work in null and low. You should check our alliance killboard.


I dont mine in high because its not worth it, the mins are crap, plus i build capitals, so yeah, not happening in high, and i wouldn't do it in low.
Yet again, a CODE guy thinking that they have SO much influence on the game.
So then, if you do 'plenty' of work in low and null, when was the last time CODE fielded a capital fleet?


...because fielding caps is all null is about, right? And if highsec mining were so invaluable, how did Chribba get so rich?

By mining ore that's free and dumping the markets, making insane profits through manipulation. Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2015-07-15 15:14:24 UTC
Freya Sertan wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
I like how the OP completely glossed over my on point, relevant and totally applicable post in this thread.

CODE. is your mining revamp.

Adapt or die.


ok then, come out into null and gank me then. CODE isn't a mining mechanic revamp, it is a symptom of the problem, whihc is ming is to easy to afk.


The only thing we're a symptom of is impending change to Highsec. You keep beating this null drum when null isn't in need of saving. Why don't you come on out to highsec and mine here? I bet I know why; because of us. We are the biggest and single most effective change to mining since we all started our Saviors work.

We do plenty of work in null and low. You should check our alliance killboard.


I dont mine in high because its not worth it, the mins are crap, plus i build capitals, so yeah, not happening in high, and i wouldn't do it in low.
Yet again, a CODE guy thinking that they have SO much influence on the game.
So then, if you do 'plenty' of work in low and null, when was the last time CODE fielded a capital fleet?


...because fielding caps is all null is about, right? And if highsec mining were so invaluable, how did Chribba get so rich?


well he didnt get rich mining....

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Kestral Anneto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#106 - 2015-07-15 15:17:03 UTC
Freya Sertan wrote:
...because fielding caps is all null is about, right? And if highsec mining were so invaluable, how did Chribba get so rich?


Chribba got rich from third partying transactions from what i gather (could be wrong) but as i said, i make capitals, so i dont do highsec.

the ability to field capitals is a measure of strength. I haven't even seen CODE fleets go roaming.

But again, lets get back on topic here.
Lady Areola Fappington
#107 - 2015-07-15 15:17:33 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:

ok then, come out into null and gank me then. CODE isn't a mining mechanic revamp, it is a symptom of the problem, which is mining is to easy to afk.



I actually agree with this, but likely not the way you're thinking.

Really, the only reason CODE is so successful at what it does is because Mining (and to an extent, freighter hauling) are so wildly out of whack when it comes to risk awareness, compared to other activities in Eve.

The actual gameplay mechanic involved almost encourages NOT paying attention to the game. Not paying attention in any other section of Eve is basically lethal. Just keeping things PVE here, take a mission runner. With the exception of a few specific fits, just flying into a mission, activating a module, and alt-tabbing runs a not-zero risk of getting popped by the mission rats. Just warping in and mashing a button in exploration purely won't work, you've got to play the minigame now. The second you venture out of highsec.....yeah, stop paying attention there, and you'll be liberated of your ship regardless of playstyle.

The only thing Code has done, is introduce a (very small) element of risk to not paying attention while highsec mining. It's honestly the way mining SHOULD be, but like I said, the mechanics behind mining encourage alt-tabbing.

The fix is changing mining in such a way that, ultimately, CODE isn't needed to keep miner eyes in the game. That's going to be a big revamp that goes beyond just a couple quick changes.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#108 - 2015-07-15 15:20:05 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:
...because fielding caps is all null is about, right? And if highsec mining were so invaluable, how did Chribba get so rich?


Chribba got rich from third partying transactions from what i gather (could be wrong) but as i said, i make capitals, so i dont do highsec.

the ability to field capitals is a measure of strength. I haven't even seen CODE fleets go roaming.

But again, lets get back on topic here.


Being the #1 alliance in kills, ISK destroyed and efficiency would make us strong. We scoff at capitals.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.

Kestral Anneto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#109 - 2015-07-15 15:27:32 UTC
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:
...because fielding caps is all null is about, right? And if highsec mining were so invaluable, how did Chribba get so rich?


Chribba got rich from third partying transactions from what i gather (could be wrong) but as i said, i make capitals, so i dont do highsec.

the ability to field capitals is a measure of strength. I haven't even seen CODE fleets go roaming.

But again, lets get back on topic here.


Being the #1 alliance in kills, ISK destroyed and efficiency would make us strong. We scoff at capitals.


anyone can gank, come have a pitched fight, you never know, you might like it.
Lady Areola Fappington
#110 - 2015-07-15 15:35:13 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:


anyone can gank, come have a pitched fight, you never know, you might like it.



You'd be surprised. I've FCed small lowsec roams, TiDi battle in null, and highsec ganking. Of any of them, the highsec gank fleets took the most work and "on your feet" thinking.

Possible targets can pop up anywhere, you're normally wrangling 3-4 different scouts. You've got to be aware of your gank teams warp speed, ship agility, all your bookmarks between here and there, ship DPS, concord status and response times, anti-ganker location, tank the target has just by looking......it's a LOT of information.

Most people only see the last 10 seconds of a gank, and just assume it's easy. Ohhh, trust me, there's work involved.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#111 - 2015-07-19 23:14:25 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Calm down miner! How can you even consider a discussion about mining without involving the *SELF PROCLAIMED* official Highsec mining authority? That's just silly.


fixed that for you buddy.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#112 - 2015-07-20 00:04:56 UTC
How about we mine comets with drones. The vexor has a bonus to those.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#113 - 2015-07-20 00:07:01 UTC
Is this the same thread I left more than a year ago? Been in EVE off and on for going on 8 years. I'll go back and read through this whole thing but I've already got a pretty good idea what's here. LOL

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#114 - 2015-07-20 00:18:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
why dont you CODE people mind your own crap and stay out of how other people play?


This isn't even almost funny, it's outright hilarious.


why? what gives you the right to decide who's play style is correct?


The Savior of Highsec, of course.


I literally LOL'd.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Omega Capsuleer
Order of Cut-Throats
#115 - 2015-07-20 00:39:25 UTC
You will get ship skins and like it. And so if you mean revamp of mining ship skins you are in luck!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#116 - 2015-07-20 00:41:30 UTC
Okay so I'm only going to reference hi-sec mining in this post. The idea that I am seeing proposed is to have CCP develop mechanics to make mining more interesting. The impetus is that it should be interesting enough to keep them from going off AFK. Am I missing the point or is this pretty much what we're driving for?

If that is the point of this demand on CCP, why would they bother? There is already something that should keep miners engaged and not AFK. It is called gankers. Why should CCP step in to fix something with mechanics that is already just fine with PGC?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#117 - 2015-07-20 06:22:10 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Okay so I'm only going to reference hi-sec mining in this post. The idea that I am seeing proposed is to have CCP develop mechanics to make mining more interesting. The impetus is that it should be interesting enough to keep them from going off AFK. Am I missing the point or is this pretty much what we're driving for?

If that is the point of this demand on CCP, why would they bother? There is already something that should keep miners engaged and not AFK. It is called gankers. Why should CCP step in to fix something with mechanics that is already just fine with PGC?


Being stressed by gankers is not something related to mining, it's for everyone. Plus it's not something engaging at all, just some stress on top of something boring/repetitive to death.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

Black Pedro
Mine.
#118 - 2015-07-20 06:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Kiddoomer wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Okay so I'm only going to reference hi-sec mining in this post. The idea that I am seeing proposed is to have CCP develop mechanics to make mining more interesting. The impetus is that it should be interesting enough to keep them from going off AFK. Am I missing the point or is this pretty much what we're driving for?

If that is the point of this demand on CCP, why would they bother? There is already something that should keep miners engaged and not AFK. It is called gankers. Why should CCP step in to fix something with mechanics that is already just fine with PGC?


Being stressed by gankers is not something related to mining, it's for everyone. Plus it's not something engaging at all, just some stress on top of something boring/repetitive to death.

It would seem to me to be very engaging - all those alarms going off, the scramble to see if you can get away or at least save your pod. Not sure what could be more exciting and engaging in a typical miner's day.

Ok, more seriously the "engagement" comes from the risk of ganking, rather than the 10s adrenaline rush of the gank which happens so rarely in highsec. Miners (and haulers, and to a much less extent mission runners) have to consider the risk of ganking when deciding their fit and in-space behaviour. The risk of ganking adds another dimension that needs to be taken into account when choosing a ship and fit, where to mine, and so forth which has to be balanced off against yield. If highsec were 100% safe you would see pretty much only AFK max-yield fit Hulks and Mackinaws depending if the miner wanted to pause Netflix every 5 minutes or 20 minutes respectively.

That is why suicide ganking has been put in the game by CCP - without it there would be practically no decisions to made by highsec miners, and thus no actual game play. I think mining does need a major revamp, but it should be done right so that mining isn't just a minigame, but rather organically rewards effort and risk-taking. A single-pilot, low effort mining op should be possible, but is should reward much less than a complex, multi-person group operation. A relatively safe mining op should be possible, but it should reward much less than one that requires a defense because it is vulnerable to other players destroying it.

Mining is always going to be repetitive as with all PvE, but I think offering a few different varieties with much different levels of risk (and thus reward) would go a long way to being less boring and appealing to various player's diverse interests.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#119 - 2015-07-20 07:17:57 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Okay so I'm only going to reference hi-sec mining in this post. The idea that I am seeing proposed is to have CCP develop mechanics to make mining more interesting. The impetus is that it should be interesting enough to keep them from going off AFK. Am I missing the point or is this pretty much what we're driving for?

If that is the point of this demand on CCP, why would they bother? There is already something that should keep miners engaged and not AFK. It is called gankers. Why should CCP step in to fix something with mechanics that is already just fine with PGC?


Being stressed by gankers is not something related to mining, it's for everyone. Plus it's not something engaging at all, just some stress on top of something boring/repetitive to death.

It would seem to me to be very engaging - all those alarms going off, the scramble to see if you can get away or at least save your pod. Not sure what could be more exciting and engaging in a typical miner's day.

Ok, more seriously the "engagement" comes from the risk of ganking, rather than the 10s adrenaline rush of the gank which happens so rarely in highsec. Miners (and haulers, and to a much less extent mission runners) have to consider the risk of ganking when deciding their fit and in-space behaviour. The risk of ganking adds another dimension that needs to be taken into account when choosing a ship and fit, where to mine, and so forth which has to be balanced off against yield. If highsec were 100% you would see pretty much only AFK max-yield fit Hulks and Mackinaws depending if the miner wanted to pause Netflix every 5 minutes or 20 minutes respectively.

That is why suicide ganking has been put in the game by CCP - without it there would be practically no decisions to made by highsec miners, and thus no actual game play. I think mining does need a major revamp, but it should be done right so that mining isn't just a minigame, but rather organically rewards effort and risk-taking. A single-pilot, low effort mining op should be possible, but is should reward much less than a complex, multi-person group operation. A relatively safe mining op should be possible, but it should reward much less than one that requires a defense because it is vulnerable to other players destroying it.

Mining is always going to be repetitive as with all PvE, but I think offering a few different varieties with much different levels of risk (and thus reward) would go a long way to being less boring and appealing to various player's diverse interests.



I agree for the most part, especially the last paragraph, because honestly when I tried exploration I really liked the fact that I had to focus on the mini-game and at the same time had to watch both d-scan and overview.

Something similar to the solo miner would be enough, as said by other people multi-boxing with hulk gives enough work to not make it too much boring, but me in my retriever/mackinaw :/ even mining always on the move and chasing only after +5 and +10% ores I don't have much to do for most of the time, and as soon as a code scout or catalyst appears I fly away in 2-3 seconds, most of their sucessful gank come for people unaware of them (these still exists apparently) or too much lazy/rich to bother losing ships.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

Anthar Thebess
#120 - 2015-07-20 10:03:03 UTC
Fidelas Constans ... why i am not surprised.