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Aegis WH feedback

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Mikha'el Airuta
Catiz is NOT my empress
#81 - 2015-07-16 10:55:22 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
Mikha'el Airuta wrote:
LOL at calling Ms. Dusette a farmer. If you actually lived in WH space, you would know she and her family are the most dedicated pure WH PvP oriented ppl, I have ever met there. But I forgive you, you cant see that from Jita station.


and thanks for worrying about the view from jita station for my trading char, appreciated.


And here we have it, meine damen und herren! Its just a PL guy crying. Well I did my job, revealed the identity of this strange guy. Now I can walk away happy.
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2015-07-16 10:57:28 UTC
it was never secret, I just happened to post with my other toon on forums for years and revealed him to be my alt on multiple occassions. Crying? Whatever naming suits your feeling best.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#83 - 2015-07-16 10:58:05 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
1) Why are you advocating less WH traffic/pvp? Are you a farmer? Are you still salty about your recent tengu loss?
There is no other reason I can think of for a WH resident not wanting WH connections.

Wow, you went looking up killboards and stuff for more troll-angles? I really must be hitting home then.

No, not worried about the Tengu, though I am very upset about getting podded. Do you have any clue how much work goes into this figure? Month after month, every morning jogging around the stront tanks, hundreds of crunches, not to mention pelvic floor exercises. Goddammit.

But in seriousness, I'm not advocating for less WH traffic/PVP - Merely reshaping it. The reasons why I've already stated. Smile

Robert Caldera wrote:
2) nullseccers have "no say" in how w-space works, all they can do is complaining about it, posting on forums about that. Until the nerf I never even looked into this subforum, thus your theory that less WH content leads to less nullseccers here is obviously wrong.

That doesn't really even make sense.

Robert Caldera wrote:
its obvious and self explanatory.
Less WH connections means:
1) taken chances for WH folks to find targets/fighs -> less pvp.
2) taken chances for null folks to find a chain to a different part of null for targets/fight -> less pvp.
and "less pvp" (much less in current context) is just another word for "parts of pvp being removed", thus my saying about removed pvp - here again pretty obvious.

Nah, it's just redirecting folks a little. The pvp is still there.

Wormholers can still find a null exit easy as pie if we wanted. We generally have multiple null exits in chain daily. The problem is when you're surrounded by a smorgasbord of null it becomes easier to forget w-space all together and just go on a null roam (I see it first hand), and that I do not like. It's a nice option, but some nerfs to stop it being the first choice for pvp are good imo.

Robert Caldera wrote:
I'm not saying I want to live in null, I say I live in null and thats why I am affected by the change.
Sure its my cup of tea, I can stay there and I can keep comlaining about the changed mechanics how much I like, nothing you could do anything about.

Umm, okay?

Robert Caldera wrote:
I never tried to hide my concerns, dunno how you would view it that way. What I'm honestly concerned about are removed/nerfed pvp abilities for everyone including nullseccers, wormholers and lowseccers all together.

You sure you're not hiding something? Because you really don't strike me as someone concerned about pvp.

Yay, my turn to do the killboard thing! Big smile

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

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Erica Dusette
Division 13
#84 - 2015-07-16 10:59:49 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
Mikha'el Airuta wrote:
LOL at calling Ms. Dusette a farmer. If you actually lived in WH space, you would know she and her family are the most dedicated pure WH PvP oriented ppl, I have ever met there. But I forgive you, you cant see that from Jita station.


and thanks for worrying about the view from jita station for my trading char, appreciated.

Ah, there you are! Smile

See, that wasn't so hard, was it?

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#85 - 2015-07-16 11:09:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Erica Dusette wrote:

But in seriousness, I'm not advocating for less WH traffic/PVP - Merely reshaping it. The reasons why I've already stated. Smile


reshaping into what? For more WH fights? Removing pvp and complicating logistics then isnt a proper way to lure more folks into WH, is it? Is it?

Erica Dusette wrote:

Nah, it's just redirecting folks a little. The pvp is still there.

redirecting to where? Lowsec? Trying to understand your way of thinking.
I already explained in what way pvp got reduced, its obvious.

Erica Dusette wrote:

Wormholers can still find a null exit easy as pie if we wanted. We generally have multiple null exits in chain daily.

sure they can, never questioned the fact itself. Its more about the amount of effort, which was raised beyond limits for nor real reason. Why would you want to spend hours on few poor chains compared to pre-Aegis? What is the gain for you in more probing for less connections?

Erica Dusette wrote:

The problem is when you're surrounded by a smorgasbord of null it becomes easier to forget w-space all together and just go on a null roam (I see it first hand), and that I do not like. It's a nice option, but some nerfs to stop it being the first choice for pvp are good imo.

what? You want people fighting you instead of roaming null? Is denying them null content your strategy to achieve more WH pvp?
Candi LeMew
Division 13
#86 - 2015-07-16 11:14:20 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

2) nullseccers have "no say" in how w-space works, all they can do is complaining about it, posting on forums about that. Until the nerf I never even looked into this subforum, thus your theory that less WH content leads to less nullseccers here is obviously wrong.

That's ironic that you say that, because we wormholers who frequent the WH subforum also have "no say" in what happens to our space nine times outta ten.

🍌

Remember... in Anoikis Bob Is Always Watching...

"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#87 - 2015-07-16 11:18:30 UTC
Candi LeMew wrote:

That's ironic that you say that, because we wormholers who frequent the WH subforum also have "no say" in what happens to our space nine times outta ten.



I was curious and amused about the "no say" part anyways LolLol
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#88 - 2015-07-16 11:21:20 UTC
Winthorp wrote:

I do feel "roaming in WH space" does indeed equal not fighting in WH space. I don't think i made the leap to say that that meant they wouldn't come home and fight you but since you bring it up i guess everyone would then evaluate the desire to "come back" dependent on who or what.

I do find fights in WH space (not ganks) to be far superior to null roams in crappy ships. But then that is a personal opinion and well this is what this is all about.


A big issue with wormholes is the sense of entitlement, as posted way above. The *entitled to a fight, right here, on this hole, at 0m*.
If you want a fight in w-space, it should always start with you snatching one of them and escalating from there. If you could kill him, hold him, if they don't form within 2-3 minutes and start coming on grid, kill it and roll it.

Taking a fight because someone sits on a hole asking for one is RCOAT-level of sadness.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#89 - 2015-07-16 11:43:30 UTC
Too many quotes. Let me just try to summarise with the one;

Robert Caldera wrote:
what? You want people fighting you instead of roaming null? Is denying them null content your strategy to achieve more WH pvp?

Actually, well ... yes. I'd much rather that fleet stayed in chain so we can come across them.

Though I'm not talking about denying any content. As I said a few times, wormholers can find a null hole quite easy most times. If we really want to do a null roam it's not going to be a problem, even with the "nerf". Though the ease of access shifts a little, which will maybe make some groups persist in hunting the chain for a bit longer, rather than take the first exit to null for a sure fight.

And that's a good thing for wormholers who're looking for a fight in wormholes.

Maybe that's just me. I'm a wormholer who likes to fly wormhole ships, in wormholes, against other wormholers.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#90 - 2015-07-16 11:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
but WH space already has a scarce population, doesnt it?
In Phoebe they got their logistics nerfed by jump changes.
Aegis removed a lions share of null entrys for already punched logistics and nerfs them once again, while nerfing pvp potential in same move.

Would you expect influx of more people into WH space (who could fight you) resulting from these changes?

And stop talking about shifts and such!
CCP didnt give us new ways of finding targets/fights which haven't existed before, all they did is severely cutting existing ways and methods for player confrontation, so please for the love of god stop talking about shifting or moving of pvp encounters - we are clearly witnessing obvious removal of pvp with these change, CCP hasnt provided anything new for us but generously cut on what we had.

Erica Dusette wrote:
As I said a few times, wormholers can find a null hole quite easy most times. If we really want to do a null roam it's not going to be a problem, even with the "nerf". Though the ease of access shifts a little, which will maybe make some groups persist in hunting the chain for a bit longer, rather than take the first exit to null for a sure fight.


I'm reading different opinions here and on reddit, which correlate very well to my experience of probing WH - while you could go probing for 1h and found a couple of null exits, post-Aegis you have to spend 3-4 hours or whole day and wont find any good at all.
After few attempts I simply quit doing all that because fml, I'm not going to waste my life on pointless bullshit like probing hundreds of worthless signatures a day anymore. Thats the point where I'm sure many people will agree with me and where I see lost pvp content, because the effort ridiculously outweights the rewards and its not worth doing anymore.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#91 - 2015-07-16 12:04:07 UTC
Exactly. See?

You're approaching it from your perspective as a nullsec pilot.

I'm approaching it from my perspective as a wormholer.

There is no right or wrong, our desires aren't going to meet or match up. For most wormholers null is little more than a part-time thing, a place you go for something a little different or for times when your chain is seriously empty of content. For you, however, these wormhole connections are absolutely critical for ease of logistics. This change might mean you have to scan more, or travel a few jumps and risk a fight with other nullsec groups. Likewise it means we have to scan more, jump more holes and risk more fights with other wormholers while trying to get our null roam on. Heaven forbid.

Mikha'el Airuta wrote:
LOL at calling Ms. Dusette a farmer. If you actually lived in WH space, you would know she and her family are the most dedicated pure WH PvP oriented ppl, I have ever met there. But I forgive you, you cant see that from Jita station.

That dank isk tho.

You're a sweety, Mik. ^^

Tbh though, I have over forty characters and not one of them even owns a PVE ship. Unless you count the mining barges three of my characters fly in a rookie system where I mentor new pilots in my spare time. I think the last time I even shot a sleeper was when it had one of our pilots pointed after a fight.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#92 - 2015-07-16 12:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Erica Dusette wrote:
For most wormholers null is little more than a part-time thing, a place you go for something a little different or for times when your chain is seriously empty of content.



ok if you say so..

Cant speak for other wormholers from my perspective.

Erica Dusette wrote:
For you, however, these wormhole connections are absolutely critical for ease of logistics. This change might mean you have to scan more, or travel a few jumps and risk a fight with other nullsec groups.

not at all, our logistics is 100% independent from wormholes. Its more about finding a fight in some different part of null, chance which is practically void in Aegis, dunno how this can be considered to be good, unless you are a carrier ratter in some deep ass farming grounds in null.
Winthorp
#93 - 2015-07-16 12:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Erica Dusette wrote:


Tbh though, I have over forty characters and not one of them even owns a PVE ship.


And what if i said to you that i consider a Barghest a PVE ship.

What of these allegations my lady? How do you plead?
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#94 - 2015-07-16 12:57:35 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
For most wormholers null is little more than a part-time thing, a place you go for something a little different or for times when your chain is seriously empty of content.



ok if you say so..

Cant speak for other wormholers from my perspective.

True, some people may be different and live in w-space just to fly in null.

Losing those people won't really effect w-space as they obviously never roam and fight in it anyway, so ...

Robert Caldera wrote:
not at all, our logistics is 100% independent from wormholes. Its more about finding a fight in some different part of null, chance which is practically void in Aegis, dunno how this can be considered to be good, unless you are a carrier ratter in some deep ass farming grounds in null.

Fair enough.

But is it really going to make a massive difference? I mean you'll probably still have plenty of holes spawn within a few jumps of wherever you are. I'm sure having multiple spawn in your home system is a nice luxury though, sure, and I can see how people wouldn't want to lose that.

Winthorp wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:


Tbh though, I have over forty characters and not one of them even owns a PVE ship.


And what if i said to you that i consider a Barghest a PVE ship.

What of these allegations my lady? How do you plead?

If you class POS as an environmental opponent then guilty as charged, sir. Oops

Also, why am I even posting here so much. I hate nullsex. What?

One of those nights ...

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Jezza McWaffle
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#95 - 2015-07-16 13:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jezza McWaffle
Im with Erica on this one, It's not like its hard to find nulls even after the change, scanning doesn't take ages and if you get a load of c5 connections then you very likely to have a null exit, I'd much rather promote staying in the WH chain than going to null cause null frankly sucks, blobbing or station gaming is not challenging.

For example I was by myself rolling and scanning holes this morning, it took me 30 mins to scan down and roll 2 chains each going 3 deep full scanned. And I found 6 nulls.

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#96 - 2015-07-16 13:11:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Jester
glad the non-retards are echoing my sentiments from the first page~ Some say I'm a prophet I just say I'm blessed

For the people whining "oh it's so hard to move caps without nulls" then go look for LS holes? It's even easier to move through there and it's not like you're going to get #rekkingcr(uski)ewed. Roaming null isn't WH content, if it is then PL is a toptier WH alice since we roam null for content too. Pls include us on the spreadsheet tia in advance.

Winthorp is right, whining entitled babbies cry whenever they have to adapt.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#97 - 2015-07-16 13:26:53 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
Some say I'm a prophet I just say I'm blessed

You're pretty much the only good thing null has going for it.

Still think you'd be better off back in wormholes though. Straight

For the record I vouched for you, but was blobbed and podded out of the discussion.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#98 - 2015-07-16 13:28:10 UTC
All I want is slack access :<

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#99 - 2015-07-16 13:32:25 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:

True, some people may be different and live in w-space just to fly in null.

Losing those people won't really effect w-space as they obviously never roam and fight in it anyway, so ...


I dont think there are people living in WH space purely for k-space ganks/roams, its more of addon content on top of scarce WH stuff I would assume but again, these wormholers would need to raise their voice here.

Erica Dusette wrote:

But is it really going to make a massive difference?

it made a difference, as I said CCP pushed the whole thing into the realm of time waste.

Erica Dusette wrote:
I mean you'll probably still have plenty of holes spawn within a few jumps of wherever you are.

not at all. You have to probe a whole region for 1-2 poor/EOL null chains you dont want. Why I said multiple times it became time waste, noone is gonna probe whole evening for that.



Erica Dusette wrote:
I'm sure having multiple spawn in your home system is a nice luxury though, sure, and I can see how people wouldn't want to lose that.

dunno how you got an image of nullseccers skewed that much, pre-Aegis you had to scan your area around your home and usually one of probers found some good chain within 15 jumps from where you live - a lot of probing work was implied to find them and you got rewarded with a fight or gank - effort and reward balance was quite decent..
Multiple in your home system, holy sh.. that would've been nice but it was faaaaaar from that.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#100 - 2015-07-16 13:34:55 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
All I want is slack access :<

I'm working on it ...

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss