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Dev Blog: New SKINS This Summer

First post
Author
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#121 - 2015-06-08 16:08:43 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
The one thing that ccp refuses to talk about even though CCP thomas the monetization director attended their meeting one month ago according to CCP falcon....

MONEY AND PRICES

Ccp tell us about this

It's an ongoing process that's still happening. CCP Thomas sits right behind me, we talk fairly often, and try to keep each other up to date. If we feel the data supports a shift in our pricing scheme, we will modify our pricing scheme and let players know.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#122 - 2015-06-08 16:11:04 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Maybe this has been answered, but is it possible to have pack of existing skins sold together at a discounted rate? Particularly similar ones across different ships, classes, etc.

Bundles are possible both in the NES and on the item itself. We'll be expanding and experimenting with the bundle range in the future.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#123 - 2015-06-08 17:02:42 UTC
There's nothing intrinsically irrational about different corps charging different prices. There are legions of examples of e.g., car colors being tiered. More desirable finishes command higher prices. Exclusivity is desirable for some brands, which is why you see $15,000 phones that are just $500 phones encrusted in bling.

This guy has a point, however:

Petrified wrote:

Yes, please put the SKINs pricing through tiericide. Right now the pricing structure is very, very inconsistent.
Example:
Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Aeon Sarum Skin: 6,500 AUR

Which would seem to imply that Sarum skins are more valuable/pricey
But then we see:
Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Oracle Sarum Skin: 2,830 AUR
1,
Then we also have the fact the the pricing seems to be unrelated to the ship hull size as well:
Avatar Khanid Skin: 6,500 AUR
Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Apocalypse Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Harbringer Khanid Skin: 2,830 AUR
Augoror Khanid Skin: 2,830 AUR
Dragoon Khanid Skin: 2,390 AUR
Inquisitor Khanid Skin: 1,540 AUR

It seems like pricing was randomly chosen without respect to similar hulls or similar skins relative value to each other.
The word "maddening" comes to mind.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Gemini Tordanis
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#124 - 2015-06-08 18:37:32 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
Gemini Tordanis wrote:
Ease up on your critical tone, these folks are people too. If you do not like the product, then simply stop using it.


I'm not trying to be terrible about it, I have strong opinions about this because I've been affected by it for years and I just kept my mouth shut and kept playing the game. CCP has made a lot of mistakes, and as an entity it needs to continually listen to the community, even the bittervet rabble.

They can't give please everyone and it's okay if they don't end up giving me what I want, but what I want is for CCP to sit down and really reconsider how they're doing microtransactions and cosmetic items in general.

Cosmetic items are about fun, you're just having fun with things, and microtransactions is the currency by which you perpetually buy the fun to consume. The bug that made ship skins applicable to all ships was so, so fun, because it was closer to what ship customization should be.

Just let us set colors and things on our own ships, let our own dreams come alive. T'amber had the most amazing mock-ups and while they were shooting a little high it's all still an amazing idea in a more conservative form. Not that the skins CCP are offering now aren't amazing, they absolutely are, but maybe we all have better ideas of what looks amazing on our demigod's chariot.



Totally agree with you. The prices of microtransactions seems to be the offspring of a blindfold and dartboard. What Petrified wrote was exactly how many of us feel. I think they will eventually allow folks to set their own colors but they want to temper the rollout and make certain there are no server-side issues when massive numbers of people generate unique wrappers for their ships.

SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#125 - 2015-06-08 18:50:19 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Airi Cho wrote:
1. police skin for everything!
2. and until then ... am I the only one who would love to see a whole fleet of police kronos patrolling space? Twisted


I wanna see a Comet fly up to a fight. Tell everyone to stop shooting. When they don't he turns on his police SKIN. Lights a cyno. In comes a police capital fleet. Nyx, Erebus, Thanatos, Moros. All of it. >.<



Only if there's a recording of the comms where the comet pilot calmly calls in for backup for a domestic disturbance before lighting said cyno.
Petrified
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#126 - 2015-06-08 22:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrified
Dersen Lowery wrote:
There's nothing intrinsically irrational about different corps charging different prices. There are legions of examples of e.g., car colors being tiered. More desirable finishes command higher prices. Exclusivity is desirable for some brands, which is why you see $15,000 phones that are just $500 phones encrusted in bling.

This guy has a point, however:
...


Removed my own quote as it would make the post overly long:
That is exactly my point. Big smile

If they were premium items I would totally understand higher prices. But we are not actually seeing premium pricing but inconsistent pricing models. Tiericide: needed.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Rain6637
NulzSec
#127 - 2015-06-08 22:48:06 UTC
I'm thinking it's directly proportional to the number of characters that have the ship trained.
Petrified
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#128 - 2015-06-08 22:50:51 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I'm thinking it's directly proportional to the number of characters that have the ship trained.


Does not make sense at all with regards to what we are actually seeing.
Quote:
Example:
Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Aeon Sarum Skin: 6,500 AUR

Which would seem to imply that Sarum skins are more valuable/pricey
But then we see:
Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Oracle Sarum Skin: 2,830 AUR


Additionally, if you use that reasoning, then Frigate SKINs should cost more than Titan SKINs.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#129 - 2015-06-08 22:53:21 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
The excuses for not making skins universal are underwheleming.

For the so-called quality assurance, if the skin looks bad on a ship then people just won't use it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and many may even find the black default texture desirable. After all, the person who will be seeing the skin they apply the most is the person who applied it.

For the T1 ships looking like T2 ships.. So? So what does that even matter? People don't get T2 ships because they look different, they get them because they perform different. Skins are skins. Just because an asset designer decided that that's how a T2 variant should look shouldn't impact the opinions of what players want T1 ships to look like.

I'm so fed up with it, I enjoy EVE but the years of corruption and incompetence and general not getting it has left me ambivalent at best.
I like the qib about QA... because just think how awesome the rest of the game could be if they actually applied the same high level of QA to every part of the game they change? But no, they don't even barely consider QA in comparison... can't have some random black pixels on the ships, that would break everything. Oh wait, everything else is already 1000x more broken.

If you are putting "so much effort" into the art, and can't apply those manhours to actually fixing problems with the core game itself, I know it sounds silly, but maybe you should re-appropriate those funds to core game development. A pretty game that is broken is still a broken game.

CCP Terminus wrote:
The SKIN system you propose would be a tremendous amount of QA for each SKIN released. There is nothing stopping us in the future, once SKIN lines are more fleshed out, from selling a single SKIN that applies to multiple ships. Corp-wide SKINs will probably work slightly differently when it comes to the corp purchasing and activating a SKIN. The implementation on the user end would be the same as the current system. While you;re in the corp you have access to the active corp SKIN in your fitting window, or some variation of that.
So if you haven't finished figuring out where you want to go with SKINs and are apparently still 'feeling out' the demand for it... why develop a new system that was completely opposite of anything that we had suggested in the many threads of feedback? You guys asked for our feedback, and then turned around and ignored all of it and released something nobody had asked for. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the entirety of the last several CCP started SKIN and/or ship color customization threads)
Rain6637
NulzSec
#130 - 2015-06-08 22:58:01 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
I'm thinking it's directly proportional to the number of characters that have the ship trained.


Does not make sense at all with regards to what we are actually seeing.
Quote:
Example:
Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Aeon Sarum Skin: 6,500 AUR

Which would seem to imply that Sarum skins are more valuable/pricey
But then we see:
Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Oracle Sarum Skin: 2,830 AUR


Additionally, if you use that reasoning, then Frigate SKINs should cost more than Titan SKINs.

Beats me. lol. I just remembered I stopped questioning this. I'm into clothes. I just speculate with SKINs.
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#131 - 2015-06-08 23:37:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Destoya
CCP Terminus wrote:

It's an ongoing process that's still happening. CCP Thomas sits right behind me, we talk fairly often, and try to keep each other up to date. If we feel the data supports a shift in our pricing scheme, we will modify our pricing scheme and let players know.

Because I was interested, here are the Jita market volumes of the skins released since the new system starting with the letter A (as well as erebus):
Quote:
Aeon Khanid - 49
Aeon Sarum - 35
Algos Intaki Syndicate - 6
Algos Interbus - 2
Apoc Ardipashur - 3
Apoc Kador - 2
Apoc Khanid - 20
Apoc Tash-Murkon - 6
Arbitrator Ardipashur - 2
Arbitrator Kador - 3
Archon Kador - 96
Archon Tash-Murkon - 63
Armageddon Kador - 14
Armageddon Tash-Murkon - 32
Atron Intaki Syndicate - 50
Atron Interbus - 21
Augoror Ardipashur - 0
Augoror Khanid - 8
Avatar Kador - 23
Avatar Khanid - 29
Erebus Duvolle - 14
Erebus Interbus - 23


Here's the ones that existed before the patch and got converted:
Quote:
Abaddon Kador - 1109
Abaddon Tash-Murkon - 909

Now I know this isnt wholly representative of the actual use statistics since no doubt a good portion of people converted plexes or bought aurum directly but I do believe it is indicative of the general trend of skin usage. The market prices on all of these follow the aurum to plex conversion pretty closely, so the market should be a viable option for players who dont wish to spend real money on microtransactions (if they can be called micro) or don't have a round amount of aurum in their accounts and want to buy the items as efficiently as possible. I didn't look at Amarr/Dodixie/Rens but since you can apply skins remotely Jita should have the majority of market volume.

Theres a few things that stand out to me:

  1. People are far more likely to buy skins for expensive ships than cheap ones. Look at the numbers for the capital or supercapital ships and compare them to the cruisers or even the battleships. The archon is far and away the most popular skin, followed by Aeon and Avatar.

  2. "Budget" skins tend to be popular in their size classes. The Intaki atron is a decent example of this. Although it is a inexpensive tech 1 frigate, people buy a relatively large amount of those skins since they only cost 740 Aurum. I would like to note that this is the cheapest skin in the store and still costs nearly 200 million isk, which is completely ludicrous for a ship that costs well under a million for a fully fit example.

  3. SKIN cost is a very important factor in which skins players buy. The abaddon skins which got converted to the new system are currently priced between around 1/10 to 1/20 of the price of the other Amarr battleships, and the increase in volume sold on the Jita market is almost directly correlated to the price.

  4. Visual differentiation is important. Players enjoy radically different paint schemes from the stock tech 1 look. Skins like Ardipashur which are only subtly different from tech one sell abysmally next to Khanid and Tash-Murkon, even when the price is lower. I put the Erebus sales in for this reason; I was really disappointing with those skins looking hardly different than the base ship and I haven't bought one for this reason. There Erebus skins selling ~40% less units than the Avatar does not surprise me when you can hardly tell there's a skin applied to the Erebus.


All in all, it's pretty embarrassing in my opinion to have market volume in the single digits (or even zero volume in the case of the Augoror Ardipashur) 6 weeks after the feature released. Hell, the old 6 billion isk monocle sold more on the market in this period (30 ish units) than nearly all of these skins. I still have hopes for the feature but damn you guys make it hard when you're sticking to the same rhetoric in the face of all the feedback and data.

Edit:
Here's some more food for thought. The Paladin Blood Raider has sold 85 units on the market in just the first week of its existence. This is more than any other subcap that I've checked and nearly passes the mark set by the Archon Kador. Although the Paladin is a considerably rarer ship than the base Apocalypse, people are far more willing to buy skins for it. It's very good example of a combination of the things I listed above that makes it sell well even when the market has essentially rejected the standard apocalypse.

For the record, I think 2390/1750 (4-pack) is an acceptable price for a tech two battleship. That's around half to a third of a price of the hull, which seems fair. Now of course this cant be scaled infinitely up and down (please no 50bn skins for titans) but this is a good example of an acceptable price point where skins that are hundreds of times more expensive than the ship they applied to (frigate skins) are just a bad joke.
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
#132 - 2015-06-09 02:37:32 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
But where is my Guristas Golem then??!?

^^ this so this
Make it so! *points*

I like the Kaalakiota and Wiyrkomi skins, but I think faction skins [permanent] and such established EVE lore skins would be far more a success. The clothing team makes them, why not for ships too? I'd probably go for the full clothing and ship skin set for my primary ships.

—Ω—

Wylde Kardde
Wrekker Mix
#133 - 2015-06-09 03:37:05 UTC
Im confused.. the title of the advertisement says 100+ skins added to the store, Is this just stating how many are currently available? or that 100+ more will be added throughout this summer. When I logged in today I literally thaught they added 100 new skins on top of the 4 marauder ones.

am i missing something?

The Origional Intention of Pirate BS's... pvp

Nightmare X-type Burn out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyajGLoe0Kc

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#134 - 2015-06-09 15:18:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Dangeresque Too wrote:
why develop a new system that was completely opposite of anything that we had suggested in the many threads of feedback? You guys asked for our feedback, and then turned around and ignored all of it and released something nobody had asked for.

What we can do is to some extent constrained by our graphics systems and historical choices about how ship art assets are authored. We're currently making technical changes to increase our flexibility in this regard, but this takes a while because we have to update the ships themselves to keep up.

Note that while many of the mismatched faction/hull combinations people were able to come up with using the recent client bug may look nice, they often have various issues that cause both visual and behind-the-scenes problems that wouldn't pass our QA process.

Our goal is to get our systems and procedures for ship authoring where they need to be to have the flexibility that you as a player want, while avoiding technical errors that cause visual glitches or, say, excessive errors dumped into client or server log files.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Ben Zaye
Harakiri Cleaning services
#135 - 2015-06-09 16:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Zaye
Hello,

We need duster on some Caldari ship :

Golem base skin (default) :
Problem : The Golem new look is too dirty. And the corners and edges of vessel worn are very ugly. The ship did not look real. The ship definition level is poor.
Solution : Remove dirt and upgrade the ship definition.

Widow :
Same too dirty and definition problem as the Golem.

New Kaalakiota Golem skin :
The ship definition level is poor and we have the same "too dirty" problem (same as above).

Thank you in advance for these fixes and improvements

Note : I use the Max resolution (High) setup for Graphic content, Texture quality and Effect
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#136 - 2015-06-09 16:21:07 UTC
Ben Zaye wrote:
Problem : The Golem new look is too dirty. And the corners and edges of vessel worn are very ugly. The ship did not look real. The ship definition level is poor.

Please direct general graphics comments to the Carnyx feedback thread.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#137 - 2015-06-09 21:46:44 UTC
Ben Zaye wrote:
Hello,

We need duster on some Caldari ship :

Golem base skin (default) :
Problem : The Golem new look is too dirty. And the corners and edges of vessel worn are very ugly. The ship did not look real. The ship definition level is poor.
Solution : Remove dirt and upgrade the ship definition.

Widow :
Same too dirty and definition problem as the Golem.

New Kaalakiota Golem skin :
The ship definition level is poor and we have the same "too dirty" problem (same as above).

Thank you in advance for these fixes and improvements

Note : I use the Max resolution (High) setup for Graphic content, Texture quality and Effect


Try setting shaders to medium, that will remove the dirt, and make the ships look clean.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.

Rain6637
NulzSec
#138 - 2015-06-10 03:26:39 UTC
TERRIBLESPACEWARRIOR
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#139 - 2015-06-11 00:20:13 UTC
Entity wrote:
Reusing skins of unique ships is not OK (Stratios skin)

I don't understand why you would hand out unique event rewards and then just go and reuse that content.

This is not fair to the people with said content.


Show me where this was said to be a unique ship never to be release again.
Ben Zaye
Harakiri Cleaning services
#140 - 2015-06-11 13:32:54 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Ben Zaye wrote:
Problem : The Golem new look is too dirty. And the corners and edges of vessel worn are very ugly. The ship did not look real. The ship definition level is poor.

Please direct general graphics comments to the Carnyx feedback thread.


Hello,

If I wrote this comment here, is that you will make others skins for this summer and it would be good to readjust immediately the quality of the skins that you do, because in the Carnyx release, the new Golem skins are not a success in terms of quality and beauty and it is a pity.

Thank's for fast answer.