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Dev Blog: New SKINS This Summer

First post
Author
Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Knights Reborn
#101 - 2015-06-05 17:46:52 UTC
Hey love the new kronos police skin, one thing that bothers me though, the red blinking light on the deck blinks blue for the first blink and then switches to red. kinda weird

Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever!

Aphoxema G
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2015-06-05 18:57:12 UTC
The excuses for not making skins universal are underwheleming.

For the so-called quality assurance, if the skin looks bad on a ship then people just won't use it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and many may even find the black default texture desirable. After all, the person who will be seeing the skin they apply the most is the person who applied it.

For the T1 ships looking like T2 ships.. So? So what does that even matter? People don't get T2 ships because they look different, they get them because they perform different. Skins are skins. Just because an asset designer decided that that's how a T2 variant should look shouldn't impact the opinions of what players want T1 ships to look like.

If performance is a concern, just limit the number of ships on field that the client will apply skins to, or just the offending shader. There is a solution out there if anyone bothers finding one.

But it's okay, I know this is just CCP trying to placate people so they can make more money off their ridiculous micro transaction model. It must have been awfully inconvenient that that bug happened and got everyone's hopes up. I'm so fed up with it, I enjoy EVE but the years of corruption and incompetence and general not getting it has left me ambivalent at best.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2015-06-05 20:21:11 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
The excuses for not making skins universal are underwheleming.

For the so-called quality assurance, if the skin looks bad on a ship then people just won't use it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and many may even find the black default texture desirable. After all, the person who will be seeing the skin they apply the most is the person who applied it.

For the T1 ships looking like T2 ships.. So? So what does that even matter? People don't get T2 ships because they look different, they get them because they perform different. Skins are skins. Just because an asset designer decided that that's how a T2 variant should look shouldn't impact the opinions of what players want T1 ships to look like.

If performance is a concern, just limit the number of ships on field that the client will apply skins to, or just the offending shader. There is a solution out there if anyone bothers finding one.

But it's okay, I know this is just CCP trying to placate people so they can make more money off their ridiculous micro transaction model. It must have been awfully inconvenient that that bug happened and got everyone's hopes up. I'm so fed up with it, I enjoy EVE but the years of corruption and incompetence and general not getting it has left me ambivalent at best.

The reason the excuses are underwhelming is because the real excuse is the one thing that the players have asked about the most...

The one thing that ccp refuses to talk about even though CCP thomas the monetization director attended their meeting one month ago according to CCP falcon....



MONEY AND PRICES

Ccp tell us about this
Gemini Tordanis
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#104 - 2015-06-05 21:21:10 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:


MONEY AND PRICES




A Skin takes time and resources to make, regardless of what class of ship it is on. I fail to see why a frigate skin should be x cheaper than a capital skin. The same level of detail, quality assurance, performance testing, and implementation support goes into these things across the board. If you supported a platform, you would make damned sure what you were implementing not only matched your vision of quality, but also didn't create a need for more support hours than before. Perhaps the reason these things are so expensive is to temper the rollout of them (at least initially). Imagine frigate skins only costing 100 Aurum - then everyone would have them like a pokemon collection.

In any case, the artists/QA/Performance guys do not design the prices. Ease up on your critical tone, these folks are people too. If you do not like the product, then simply stop using it.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#105 - 2015-06-05 21:40:38 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:

On the cross racial stuff: It is something that could happen. Lore is not stopping us. Right now the reason it doesn't happen is performance and technical. To get faction SKINs to work properly cross race however would require basically remaking it and having the Quafe skin for Gallente and the Quafe skin for Caldari. That same effort could go into making new SKINs, which is what we have chosen to do at this time.

Victory Rattlesnake: Hopefully this summer, but no promise on that.

Could you at least open the skins up to matching race ships?
Something like.....
'This skin was designed by x corporation for x ship, however they have extended it to all Caldari subcaps, though they make no promises it will create as fine a visual image.'
That way players know that there might be the odd ship the skin applies poorly on.

You could also add in that skins get automatically disabled when a player enters TiDi, so as to avoid heavy server load in large ship battles from skin performance, which alleviates that issue.

Personally I'm happy to pay for a general skin I can use on many ships and will accept that it may not look as good on some of them in order to get that diversity. But the current one ship per skin range will not get me spending any real cash on this, though if I end up with spare isk it's possible I'd buy something on the market.

TLDR. More people will buy if it's at least an entire races ships, even if some of the skins cause the occasional visual bug, but all the bugs (rather than not quite as obvious corp skins) you've shown have been cross race ships, so a racial restriction would avoid most of that.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#106 - 2015-06-05 21:48:29 UTC
GankYou wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Destoya wrote:
No mention of the ridiculous price structure?


We are still evaluating that. We are trying different things as well. See the Marauders and the first bundle. You can get all 4 at a discounted price for example. So no, no comment on the pricing. I am sure however that it will be a continuously evolving thing.


*cough* 4,300 Aur Tech 1 Frigates *cough* That's *cough* 2,293 times the price of the hulls *cough* ISK-wise *cough*

Other than that, awesome system we have here. Big smile

At least the SKIN cannot be blown up. You can lose 2300 hulls, and still have the SKIN.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#107 - 2015-06-05 22:48:28 UTC
Maybe this has been answered, but is it possible to have pack of existing skins sold together at a discounted rate? Particularly similar ones across different ships, classes, etc.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#108 - 2015-06-05 23:05:23 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
GankYou wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Destoya wrote:
No mention of the ridiculous price structure?


We are still evaluating that. We are trying different things as well. See the Marauders and the first bundle. You can get all 4 at a discounted price for example. So no, no comment on the pricing. I am sure however that it will be a continuously evolving thing.


*cough* 4,300 Aur Tech 1 Frigates *cough* That's *cough* 2,293 times the price of the hulls *cough* ISK-wise *cough*

Other than that, awesome system we have here. Big smile

At least the SKIN cannot be blown up. You can lose 2300 hulls, and still have the SKIN.


Shiny, shiny Punisher. ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
SONS of BANE
#109 - 2015-06-06 03:00:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrified
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Destoya wrote:
No mention of the ridiculous price structure?


We are still evaluating that. We are trying different things as well. See the Marauders and the first bundle. You can get all 4 at a discounted price for example. So no, no comment on the pricing. I am sure however that it will be a continuously evolving thing.

Yes, please put the SKINs pricing through tiericide. Right now the pricing structure is very, very inconsistent.
Example:
Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Aeon Sarum Skin: 6,500 AUR

Which would seem to imply that Sarum skins are more valuable/pricey
But then we see:
Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Oracle Sarum Skin: 2,830 AUR

Then we also have the fact the the pricing seems to be unrelated to the ship hull size as well:
Avatar Khanid Skin: 6,500 AUR
Aeon Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Apocalypse Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Oracle Khanid Skin: 4,300 AUR
Harbringer Khanid Skin: 2,830 AUR
Augoror Khanid Skin: 2,830 AUR
Dragoon Khanid Skin: 2,390 AUR
Inquisitor Khanid Skin: 1,540 AUR

It seems like pricing was randomly chosen without respect to similar hulls or similar skins relative value to each other.
The word "maddening" comes to mind.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
#110 - 2015-06-06 18:30:04 UTC
I have some wishes. First, cheaper pricing. Second, shark pattern and tiger stripes SKINs for my Tengus. Obviously those are separate ones, between which I would alternate.

As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia

Rain6637
NulzSec
#111 - 2015-06-07 01:39:08 UTC
Aphoxema G
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2015-06-07 07:16:44 UTC
Gemini Tordanis wrote:
Ease up on your critical tone, these folks are people too. If you do not like the product, then simply stop using it.


I'm not trying to be terrible about it, I have strong opinions about this because I've been affected by it for years and I just kept my mouth shut and kept playing the game. CCP has made a lot of mistakes, and as an entity it needs to continually listen to the community, even the bittervet rabble.

They can't give please everyone and it's okay if they don't end up giving me what I want, but what I want is for CCP to sit down and really reconsider how they're doing microtransactions and cosmetic items in general.

Cosmetic items are about fun, you're just having fun with things, and microtransactions is the currency by which you perpetually buy the fun to consume. The bug that made ship skins applicable to all ships was so, so fun, because it was closer to what ship customization should be.

Just let us set colors and things on our own ships, let our own dreams come alive. T'amber had the most amazing mock-ups and while they were shooting a little high it's all still an amazing idea in a more conservative form. Not that the skins CCP are offering now aren't amazing, they absolutely are, but maybe we all have better ideas of what looks amazing on our demigod's chariot.
Rain6637
NulzSec
#113 - 2015-06-07 08:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Excuse me for linking something I wrote. I think it's relevant right now. https://rainfleet.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/a-title-will-come-to-me-later/

TL;DR

To those of us who don't work in video game development, a particular change seems easy to make. It probably also makes a lot of sense in our minds. But there's a lot of work that goes into these things. Devs have eyes too, and they probably want the same things we do. It just takes a lot of people to do it. It's best to be patient.

Though to agree with you, the judgement calls confuse me.
Blackfeathers
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2015-06-07 09:18:36 UTC
A Thukker Tribe Sleipnir would be super awesome, and the Sleip already has a camo skin - so can't be too hard, right? Right?

Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2015-06-07 11:44:46 UTC
Damen Apol wrote:
The whole thing is supposed to be run by psychopathic murderous immortal demi-gods. We're literally insane for the most part, you think we give a rats ass about visually appealing ships?
This statement has a lot of flaws in it, and I don't know if you are aware of this, even if we forget that not every capsuleer is a psychopathic murderer. I don't know if you read the eve novels or how many backstories and chronicles you read.

In fact, a lot of it is based on the "suspension of disbelief"
There is no indicator how a capsuleer is "freed". You'd think someone donates however many millions into your head and sends you to capsuleer grad school (aka starter corporations) out of purely altruistic reasons? WITHOUT a failsafe? You cannot be serious.
Capsuleers are not immortal because the cloning contract only works if your pod gets cracked. The brainscanner is an integral part of the capsule. If Joe Shmoe manages to slit your throat in your captain's quarters, there is no coming back. You're done.
A clone needs time to grow and there are only so many spare clones at the ready at any given time. If you kill a capsuleer often enough in rapid succession, there is no place to teleport your brain back to, so you would need to be lucky if that information is stored in a buffer somewhere... and survive intact.

Those are just the tip of the iceberg. Capsuleer lore and how they work in game are both flawed beyond recognition, and any argument based on this is automatically just as flawed as well. Suspension of disbelief and "game first, lore later" is the only reason why this works and is accepted.

CCP Terminus wrote:
We care if the ships are the same colour. EVE has enough complex and confusing systems without adding ships that look the same but are completely different. It's also a good form of future-proofing.

Excuse me? Who uses the "look at" function or does rightclick FOV drag to check how a ship looks before they decide if they want to lock it or not? That is what the overview is for. And to iterate further on your argument:
There are skins now which have previously only been used for tech2 variants. Example: Ardishapur has the same colours as Viziam. However, Viziam is only for Tech2 ships. Now you can colour T1 ships in a "T2 fashion". Just saying.


Sniper Smith wrote:
T2 Ships are (slowly) getting their own Unique variants to the Hulls, so that should be a non-issue.

*looks at the Cerberus* Try that again please? Usually, tech2 ships at least have a slight variance in their hull. I tried to even find this basic difference in Caracal and Cerberus, and failed.


Anyway...
Your idea of the the price structure needs to be explained for real now.
Why are "Rust online" Nugoeihuvi ships more expensive than "Space camo online" Wiyrkomi?
There is no reason to throw the "rarity" argument in here. If you have based the prices on what people bought previously, then that would have been a flawed statistic to begin with.
There is a very good reason to base the prices on size though... "we need more paint" ... I mean... KERR particles. Why Frigate Skins should be as expensive as capital ship skins... is beyond me.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#116 - 2015-06-07 14:15:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Natya Mebelle wrote:
Damen Apol wrote:
The whole thing is supposed to be run by psychopathic murderous immortal demi-gods. We're literally insane for the most part, you think we give a rats ass about visually appealing ships?
This statement has a lot of flaws in it, and I don't know if you are aware of this, even if we forget that not every capsuleer is a psychopathic murderer. I don't know if you read the eve novels or how many backstories and chronicles you read.

In fact, a lot of it is based on the "suspension of disbelief"
There is no indicator how a capsuleer is "freed". You'd think someone donates however many millions into your head and sends you to capsuleer grad school (aka starter corporations) out of purely altruistic reasons? WITHOUT a failsafe? You cannot be serious.
Capsuleers are not immortal because the cloning contract only works if your pod gets cracked. The brainscanner is an integral part of the capsule. If Joe Shmoe manages to slit your throat in your captain's quarters, there is no coming back. You're done.
A clone needs time to grow and there are only so many spare clones at the ready at any given time. If you kill a capsuleer often enough in rapid succession, there is no place to teleport your brain back to, so you would need to be lucky if that information is stored in a buffer somewhere... and survive intact.

Those are just the tip of the iceberg. Capsuleer lore and how they work in game are both flawed beyond recognition, and any argument based on this is automatically just as flawed as well. Suspension of disbelief and "game first, lore later" is the only reason why this works and is accepted.

CCP Terminus wrote:
We care if the ships are the same colour. EVE has enough complex and confusing systems without adding ships that look the same but are completely different. It's also a good form of future-proofing.

Excuse me? Who uses the "look at" function or does rightclick FOV drag to check how a ship looks before they decide if they want to lock it or not? That is what the overview is for. And to iterate further on your argument:
There are skins now which have previously only been used for tech2 variants. Example: Ardishapur has the same colours as Viziam. However, Viziam is only for Tech2 ships. Now you can colour T1 ships in a "T2 fashion". Just saying.


Sniper Smith wrote:
T2 Ships are (slowly) getting their own Unique variants to the Hulls, so that should be a non-issue.

*looks at the Cerberus* Try that again please? Usually, tech2 ships at least have a slight variance in their hull. I tried to even find this basic difference in Caracal and Cerberus, and failed.


Anyway...
Your idea of the the price structure needs to be explained for real now.
Why are "Rust online" Nugoeihuvi ships more expensive than "Space camo online" Wiyrkomi?
There is no reason to throw the "rarity" argument in here. If you have based the prices on what people bought previously, then that would have been a flawed statistic to begin with.
There is a very good reason to base the prices on size though... "we need more paint" ... I mean... KERR particles. Why Frigate Skins should be as expensive as capital ship skins... is beyond me.


Well, CCP managed to miss twice the right way to implement spaceship paintjobs in their spaceships game...

First, they tried with destructable ship skins which modified the ship into a separate entity. We are supposed to trust them that this worked well enough as to go and give a second try which made a bit more of sense... What?

Second shot has been to implement permanent licenses which modify the ship cosmethics. This is a huge improvement since destructable cosmethics are not in the top 10,000 of most sold microtransaction items ever. But, alas!, CCP has been exposed to be "cheating" with the price structure and the actual amount of artwork delivered with each SKIN. Since there is no sensible reason why a license costs 300% more than another license for a similar ship, nor why small ships are more expensive than large ships, nor why should players pay for the exact same procedural skin slightly tweaked to work on another ship, rather than buy truly custom texture sets for each individual ship.

I guess that there will not be a third shot at this. So we will never get CHEAP flat-rate, per ship class licenses with a INGAME COST to apply proportional to ship size. So in order to paint a Titan you need a license (a cheap one) and an amount of ISK to do the "physical" paintjob itself (and then that paintjob becomes a part of the ship's killmail... a tiny part, but a part nonetheless).

Anyway, I don't really care about SKINs as they are now. There's so few of them, and often a single one for each ship class, and all in all they all are just stupid procedural stuff, not actual texture maps that improve the ship's appearence. Procedural mapping can hardly better the results of actually thinking "how would you paint this logo/scheme on this ship". Then maybe the Kaalakiota Golem would have the red double chevron on top of the right wing and a similar one below the left wing, rather than a have a single red double chevron splattered all over its top surface because hey, that's what the Kaalakiota procedural map does...


And of course, I'd rather customize my unique human avatar, than a ship that looks exactly like any other ship of the same class/SKIN... supposing that someone ever zooms on it to give it a peek for whatever reason.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2015-06-07 17:25:53 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I guess that there will not be a third shot at this. So we will never get CHEAP flat-rate, per ship class licenses with a INGAME COST to apply proportional to ship size. So in order to paint a Titan you need a license (a cheap one) and an amount of ISK to do the "physical" paintjob itself (and then that paintjob becomes a part of the ship's killmail... a tiny part, but a part nonetheless).
I would really like this c: Not only does it add a direly needed ISK sink but it is a sensible approach to it. But I do think we will see a third iteration of ship skins. Here is why;

We've seen how the technology exists in the engine to put any skin on any ship, but not all of them look good doing so. Which means further tweaks will need to be done to them. That means in the future there will be a time when there is either a more sensible way for the engine to automatically apply colours and decals, or everything has been adjusted manually. At that point, or even earlier, it would be a lot smarter to condense the skins to a generic license.
For example; "Gallente Frigate Interbus license". You buy the license, and apply it to any of your Gallente frigates. Once done, it will unlock this skin for this type of frigate, let's say the Incursus. If you want to have another Gallente Interbus frigate, you need to buy the generic license again. This can be broadened into "Gallente Interbus" or "Frigate Interbus" or simply... "Interbus ship paint license" to apply on whatever ship you want. I do think we will keep within a faction setting though. Then again, this makes it difficult for other people who "changed sides" to properly identify with their new affiliation. Gurista Apocalypse? Innerzone Thrasher?

I wouldn't have minded an additional, destructible version of the skins. In fact, I often suggested to do both. Have the "unlimited" skin being more expensive to unlock forever at will like we have now, but have a slot in the ship that allows for a regular destructible skin to be slotted. You could unslot the skin again to sell it, but if your ship explodes, the skin is automatically destroyed, like rigs. So you would buy the skin depending on your playing preference and slot it.

I still think we need to be able to "revoke" the licenses for skins to sell them on the market again.

But the continued seeding of new skins gives me hope that we will see another revision of it c:
Runaki Kaazu
EValkyries
#118 - 2015-06-07 18:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Runaki Kaazu
Please deploy chinese - server skins on Tranquility!

I love this skin:

http://i.imgur.com/iEAsx6Z.jpg
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#119 - 2015-06-08 06:15:00 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I will be interested in ship skins when the Red Baron's Flying Circus is a reality in Eve.

Reverse Kaalakiota?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Wylde Kardde
Wrekker Mix
#120 - 2015-06-08 13:58:48 UTC
Navy skins for all corresponding racial ships via navy corp LP

Also Minmatar Fleet ship camo should be a darker olive green version of the Brutor/Boundless camo along lines of the Freki & Mimir special edition ships. RF camo currently looks cheap and boring.

The Origional Intention of Pirate BS's... pvp

Nightmare X-type Burn out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyajGLoe0Kc