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No missile pass accompanying Jackdaw release?

Author
Portiko
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-06-02 12:26:10 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I think CCP Probably thinks either

A. Missiles are fine as they are, Which is unlikely.

B. They are looking into but the Sentry/Ishtar took priority and rightfully so,

Or C. They don't know how to fix it without making it OP


HML, Torps and the Kin lock need to be looked at but personally I'd rather T3 and Sentries be taken care of first.



Not holding my breath for that. They're tickling sentries with a feather instead of taking bats and chainsaws to the offending hulls instead. At this rate, my kids will be drawing their pension before ishtars are fixed.

CCP have dropped the sledgehammer approach and switched to little taps with the little hammer. They've failed to realise it takes more than hammers and dumb luck to sculpt something worthwhile.

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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#22 - 2015-06-02 12:42:11 UTC
Lev Ironwill wrote:
Examples of missile tweaks could be:
-Updating rockets
-Torpedo range and/or application
-Heavy Missiles. Just about everything with Heavy's could use a look
-General missile speed with the possible exception of lights
-Kinetic locks. Why are they still a thing?
-Something new, like maybe an anti-capacitor missile similar to the Void bomb? 0 damage but drains some cap, scales with size. Just an off the wall idea that I, literally, thought up just now.Big smile

As I recall the changes to lasers and projectiles had negligable effect on most T2 fits but made T1 builds a little more viable - improving access to the class (which is exactly what you would expect with a "newbie-friendly" T3). They were applied across the board because they were consistent across the board.
The equivalent would be something like "all short-range missile systems have had their explosion radius reduced by 5% and the Precision munitions... have remained exactly the same" except that people aren't saying that it's impossible to fly a Crow or Hookbill (for example) without Precisions in the same way as they do for the Slicer and Scorch.


Torp Range/Application:
Torps are already a very long ranged short-range/high-damage weapon system - perhaps that range should be reduced? Application on Torps against moving targets is lackluster but to keep things vaguely balanced range or damage would have to go to compensate.

Heavy Missiles:
Heavies were hit a little too hard - but they were hidieously overpowered before. The question is whether their range is currently OK (which would suggest an improvement in damage and/or application), whether their damage/application is currently OK (if so, they could handle more range). Perhaps there's a third way but it would have to be approached exceedingly carefully...

General missile speed:
Delayed damage again?

Kinetic locks:
They aren't a thing.
You are entirely free to use non-kinetic missiles on any ship.
Your choice has consequences similar to those of an Abaddon fitting Rails except that you can just switch out ammo...
Kinetic ship bonuses, even as strong as those on the Drake do not prevent you from switching to EM if you think (or know) you'll do more damage that way; besides which Kinetic is a useful, generalist damage type and some Caldari ships get huge amounts of it.

Something new???
Cruise missile void bombs? A Neut you can apply from 200km and uses no capacitor? Seriously?
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#23 - 2015-06-02 13:26:44 UTC
I like kinetic only locks and i think its stupid that they are going away, makes the fitting meta more boring as omni is always best.
Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#24 - 2015-06-04 08:20:16 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I think CCP Probably thinks either

A. Missiles are fine as they are, Which is unlikely.

B. They are looking into but the Sentry/Ishtar took priority and rightfully so,

Or C. They don't know how to fix it without making it OP


HML, Torps and the Kin lock need to be looked at but personally I'd rather T3 and Sentries be taken care of first.


Heavies need more volley. Torps could get some more range, just a tiny bit. They're meant for engaging other battleships. Kinetic lock is... situational. Caldari ships getting thermal/kinetic across the board where damage locks exist would be nice.

Honestly there really is no easy answer to the missile question. It's probably sitting in the 'too hard basket'. I do agree that sentry drones need more attention (even though contextually heavy drones are 30% more powerful)
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-06-04 09:23:42 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I think CCP Probably thinks either

A. Missiles are fine as they are, Which is unlikely.

B. They are looking into but the Sentry/Ishtar took priority and rightfully so,

Or C. They don't know how to fix it without making it OP


HML, Torps and the Kin lock need to be looked at but personally I'd rather T3 and Sentries be taken care of first.


Heavies need more volley. Torps could get some more range, just a tiny bit. They're meant for engaging other battleships. Kinetic lock is... situational. Caldari ships getting thermal/kinetic across the board where damage locks exist would be nice.

Honestly there really is no easy answer to the missile question. It's probably sitting in the 'too hard basket'. I do agree that sentry drones need more attention (even though contextually heavy drones are 30% more powerful)



Kinetic and EM would be nicer - It's also what the augmented caldari drones get so there is precedent.

Thus actually making selectable damage a slightly better thing. Half the races are stacked against therm/kin out the box
Portiko
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-06-04 09:33:36 UTC
One idea I've thought of is having missiles as a secondary weapon system for advanced pilots. All boats become gunboats and missile boats become gunboats with one or two extremely powerful launchers, used as very OP bonus weapons.

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Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#27 - 2015-06-04 10:27:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Seremshur
Portiko wrote:
used as very OP bonus weapons.


Yes because that would prove anything.

In to the trash it goes.

Quote:
Kinetic and EM would be nicer - It's also what the augmented caldari drones get so there is precedent.

Thus actually making selectable damage a slightly better thing. Half the races are stacked against therm/kin out the box


I've not found any problems with the new guristas ships. Most common shield builds leave a thermal dump stat and many passive armour builds still don't have great kinetic resists. I think thermal/kinetic proves to be very useful while being relatively easy to stack against. Of course missile ships would still get to switch to other damage types.

As far as the drones are concerned isn't that just because they're based on rogue drones? They don't really conform to anything.

[edit] just taking a look at the augmented drones they follow the damage pattern of their racial origin ie amarr = em/thermal and minmatar = kin/exp
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#28 - 2015-06-04 13:31:28 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:

Heavy Missiles:
Heavies were hit a little too hard - ...


I agree

Jacob Holland wrote:
but they were hidieously overpowered before...


I disagree.

What you have to keep in mind is that missiles are the only weapon system where you can decrease the maximum range by flying from them.
And the damage isn't instant like on guns or sentries - it has to go there first and can be negated by a medium smartbomb but since nobody uses them because people are in dire need of that IWIN mod to mask their incompetence.

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Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#29 - 2015-06-04 14:27:46 UTC
Heavy missiles need more damage IMO. The difference between HAM and HML alpha is not much. Maybe a mild tweaking to application. The problem with buffing heavy missiles is you buff RHML too. That is going to be a huge obstacle in balancing that weapon system.

If you buff the launcher to increase RoF, then it just becomes a long range HAM launcher with bad application. Not sure how to tackle heavies without making RHML OP. Unless we buff HM damage/application and then nerf RHML. Maybe remove 3-5 missiles from the clip? Overall clip damage would be the same with better application.

Id also like to see TP % bonus increased to be useful on anyship, not just golem, belli and huginn/rapier.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2015-06-04 14:39:08 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
As far as the drones are concerned isn't that just because they're based on rogue drones? They don't really conform to anything.

[edit] just taking a look at the augmented drones they follow the damage pattern of their racial origin ie amarr = em/thermal and minmatar = kin/exp



Exactly, it's only caldari that are the outliers. One would have expected kin/therm to match hybrids...but they didn't.

Kin/therm is ok, but I'd like to see it switched up a little all the same Smile
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#31 - 2015-06-04 17:36:29 UTC
a long while back ccp nerfed missiles to combat the drake vs tengu fleets because tengus were getting something like 100kms with heavies from what ive heard.

because of the nerf ive had to quit flying Dark Angel my Nighthawk and then they chaged her body into a fricking drake.

I miss my 70km heavies and 80 km t1 torps

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-06-04 17:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Haatakan Reppola
Stitch Kaneland wrote:

Id also like to see TP % bonus increased to be useful on anyship, not just golem, belli and huginn/rapier.



Need to have stronger TP bonus!
A max boosted, bonused, linked meta 9 TP have 60,5+90km range with 99.86625% Sig radius bonus (heated)
A max boosted, bonused, linked meta 9 web (True Sansha) have 104.9km optimal and -55% speed bonus (heated), Fed Navy have 97.9km heated range and -60% speed
T2 max boosted, bonused, linkted web have 69.9km optimal and -60% speed bonus (heated)

Unheated numbers would be 60.5+90km TP with 83.221875% signature (Domination TP), 75.65625% signature (T2)
While web get -55% speed at 80.7km (TS), -60% speed at 75.3km(FN) and -60% at 53.8km (T2)


A single web will ALWAYS do more for tracking than any TP, the worst web give -50% speed and you would need +100% signature to make up for that (can not get a TP to do that). While web can still reach out to almost 100km, or if you just use T2 web its still longer optimal than a TP with a much stronger bonus.

We need some extreme TP bonus like the Vindi get for web, 1000% signature (equal to -90% speed for tracking) would never be accpted but maybe 2-300% should be doable

EDIT: my link pilot didnt use implant for the numbers, updated :)
Portiko
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2015-06-04 18:35:41 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Portiko wrote:
used as very OP bonus weapons.


Yes because that would prove anything.

In to the trash it goes.

Into the trash you go unless you can feasibly challenge my idea, which you can't. Get in the trash.

SDPPenter link description here

Send dick pics please...

stoicfaux
#34 - 2015-06-04 19:08:58 UTC
How often do people use Rigor or Flare rigs on PvP missile boats?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#35 - 2015-06-04 23:09:25 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
How often do people use Rigor or Flare rigs on PvP missile boats?



In my experience, very rarely. The few ships I've seen that have fitted rigors somewhat regularly are RHML Phoons and Ravens in FW lowssec. That's pretty much it really, smaller ships don't usually have the spare utility slots to have the luxury of fitting rigors/flares.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#36 - 2015-06-04 23:38:24 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
How often do people use Rigor or Flare rigs on PvP missile boats?



I use them on a few different ships. Use em on my bellicose and RHML phoon. RHML missile phoon with TP, x2 webs and a rigor obliterates everything except maybe other BS. Killed quite a few 10mn ab t3ds with it too. Also able to 2-3 shot cocky slicers and tristan pilots that try and do fly bys.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2015-06-05 07:21:10 UTC
At least missiles are boostable with rigs AND implants
not as much as guns are ...
but they have better options than drones

Surgical Strike SS-90x -- There is no equivalent of this for either missiles or drones

Now show me in the database the Rig/Implant that boosts my hobgoblin or hammerhead or ogre
Missiles are in a much better position within the game than drones

Yes CCP hate missiles
but they hate drones more
Vibiana
Frontier Trading Company
#38 - 2015-06-05 09:26:44 UTC
Lol, drones are the meta for a long now. Ishtars online. Domi blobs. Gurista 300%. Even in lowsec most common ships are droneboats.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#39 - 2015-06-05 19:43:15 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
How often do people use Rigor or Flare rigs on PvP missile boats?


Depends on the ship and purpose of the fit, but I would say fairly regularly in my experience. It's not as common as with PvE, but in my experience a respectable percentage of PvP missile boats will have a Rigor (typically better than Flare) fitted.
stoicfaux
#40 - 2015-06-05 20:07:04 UTC
On a related note, Missile Guidance Enhancer (and Computer w/Scripts) placeholder on Sisi.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

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