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[Carnyx] Sentry Drone Adjustments

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-05-21 13:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey everyone! For our Carnyx release at the beginning of June we're planning on making some moderate tweaks to sentry drones, part of our ongoing process of massaging drone combat into a healthier place in the meta.

These are a very specific and limited set of changes that we believe will benefit the game, but it's important to know that these are explicitly not intended to be a "once and for all" fix for every problem related to sentries. There's no such thing as a balance silver bullet.

The main goals of these changes are to further improve the intra-class balance between sentry drones (smoothing out the progression in tracking speed and compressing the damage spread a bit) and slightly reducing the power level of some sentry fits and doctrines, especially for Bouncers and Curators that are quite dominant in a few areas.

Current plan is:
Gardes: -25% Optimal, +66.7% Falloff, -3% Damage, -6.67% Tracking
Curators: -3.1% Damage, -13% Tracking
Bouncers: -3.3% Damage, -12.5% Tracking

We welcome feedback as always!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#2 - 2015-05-21 13:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
I think its another good tweaking. Good for a revisit later if needed.

Have you considering make a separate size sentry drone to make balancing easier, so we aren't neutering BS drone doctrines? Or is that the intent?

Something along the lines of a Medium sentry drone, which could use the same bandwidth as current sentries, but reduce their range/damage to fall in line with medium turrets, and keep BS sized sentry drones where they are now (with a sig resolution change to fall in line with BS sized weapons)?

This would alleviate a lot of issues when comparing the ishtar to the other range bonused HAC's. Since you'd have to completely neuter sentries (then nerfing BS doctrines) to bring them in line with medium turrets ranges/damage.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Tiberian Deci
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-05-21 13:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberian Deci
Not gonna pretend to be a theorycrafter, but they look good to me.
Xavier Azabu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#4 - 2015-05-21 13:49:14 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
...making some moderate tweaks to sentry drones... Shocked ...massaging drone combat... Cool

Current plan is:
Gardes: -25% Optimal, +33% Falloff, -3% Damage, -6.67% Tracking
Curators: -3.1% Damage, -13% Tracking
Bouncers: -3.3% Damage, -12.5% Tracking

We welcome feedback as always!


Optimal nerf on Gardes is a little harsh.
Maybe like 15%? No one uses them on towers or in kiting Ishtar combat anyway.

The Curator and Bouncer nerf is needed.

Will this finally discourage people from using the Ishtar?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2015-05-21 13:51:15 UTC
Quote:
-25% Optimal, +33% Falloff


why? because of sentry drone optimal bonuses being too good?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-05-21 13:52:07 UTC
I think you're hurting the hulls which are not bonused for them disproportionately hard compared to the bonused ones.

No-one complains about a sentry geddon. The issues sit firmly in the bonused hulls, who will feel this less because of their already huge advantage over their peer group.

I know you like to balance the weapons and not blame hulls but in this case, it clearly IS the hulls.
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#7 - 2015-05-21 13:53:53 UTC
I think you and I have moderately different definitions of the word "moderate."

Good changes though, and I can officially announce that PL ships will be solely using Wardens in all AT matches this year.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-05-21 13:59:13 UTC
While sipping a glass of whiskey, I pondered the idea of Sentry Drones being more of a unique entity and not classified as a drone but more of a deployable turret, thus not gaining any of the benefits of drone modules it rigs.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-05-21 14:01:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There's no such thing as a balance silver bullet.

Give them the Drake treatment?
Obidiah Kane
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#10 - 2015-05-21 14:02:31 UTC
I learn the Ishtar then...
I learn the Loki then...
I learn the Svipul then...
I learn the Domi then...

you are nerfing a lot of ships that new players set as desire targets...is there anyway you could advise us of your rebalance timetable in advance? ie. if you had told me end of last year the Ishtar and Domi I had been training toward (with my PVE toon) were going to have their balls cut off I would have gone Amarr/ Caldari like everyone else, and not wasted months of sub training 'meh' skills I thought were 'Wooo!' skills.

:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#11 - 2015-05-21 14:05:38 UTC
It cannot hurt to try this tweak. I am most offended by sentry drones when used by Carriers, not Ishtars or Dominixes. Making the drones slightly worse should help with that problem.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#12 - 2015-05-21 14:06:29 UTC
Before I critique, thank you Fozzie and co for your work on rebalancing. It is difficult and neverending. But the game is now better for it.

So . . Would be nice to see a new spread sheet for the various drones. Also wondering if this leaves wardens as the go to drones for sentry doctrines? Did they really need no tweaks after these changes to the other drones? And are gardes now officially crap for just about everything?

Which is why a spreadsheet would help to see whether that smoothed progression claimed in the op will be the case.

Also, hopefully this does not kill the Ishtar. Only reduce the prevalence.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-05-21 14:07:37 UTC
Obidiah Kane wrote:

:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.


You get used to it - this happens a lot in Eve, especially for newer players. Best advice I was ever given was do not specialize - the more ships you know how to fly, the more nerf proof you are.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2015-05-21 14:08:10 UTC
Obidiah Kane wrote:
I learn the Ishtar then...
I learn the Loki then...
I learn the Svipul then...
I learn the Domi then...

you are nerfing a lot of ships that new players set as desire targets...is there anyway you could advise us of your rebalance timetable in advance? ie. if you had told me end of last year the Ishtar and Domi I had been training toward (with my PVE toon) were going to have their balls cut off I would have gone Amarr/ Caldari like everyone else, and not wasted months of sub training 'meh' skills I thought were 'Wooo!' skills.

:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.


maybe you should train what you like, rather than being utterly awful
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-05-21 14:10:22 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Obidiah Kane wrote:
I learn the Ishtar then...
I learn the Loki then...
I learn the Svipul then...
I learn the Domi then...

you are nerfing a lot of ships that new players set as desire targets...is there anyway you could advise us of your rebalance timetable in advance? ie. if you had told me end of last year the Ishtar and Domi I had been training toward (with my PVE toon) were going to have their balls cut off I would have gone Amarr/ Caldari like everyone else, and not wasted months of sub training 'meh' skills I thought were 'Wooo!' skills.

:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.


maybe you should train what you like, rather than being utterly awful


trouser as happy as always :) 0/
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#16 - 2015-05-21 14:12:26 UTC
Ishtar still not fixed by this.

Xaxaxa

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2015-05-21 14:13:27 UTC
Obidiah Kane wrote:
:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.

Yeah that's kind of what happens when you chase after the flavor of the month.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#18 - 2015-05-21 14:15:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There's no such thing as a balance silver bullet.


Really now? Blink

http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-odyssey-1.1

Quote:
ISHTAR:

7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking(was 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage).
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage.

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:

5 km bonus to Drone operation range per level.
7.5% bonus to Sentry Drone optimal range and tracking speed(was bonus to drone bay capacity).


The Zealot still can't reach even close to those range and damage levels, not to mention abysmal EHP on such setups.

Drone double bonuses are working as intended.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Obidiah Kane
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#19 - 2015-05-21 14:17:51 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Obidiah Kane wrote:
I learn the Ishtar then...
I learn the Loki then...
I learn the Svipul then...
I learn the Domi then...

you are nerfing a lot of ships that new players set as desire targets...is there anyway you could advise us of your rebalance timetable in advance? ie. if you had told me end of last year the Ishtar and Domi I had been training toward (with my PVE toon) were going to have their balls cut off I would have gone Amarr/ Caldari like everyone else, and not wasted months of sub training 'meh' skills I thought were 'Wooo!' skills.

:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.


maybe you should train what you like, rather than being utterly awful



Come again?! What kind of person even writes that? Why write it? What does it even mean?
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#20 - 2015-05-21 14:19:25 UTC
Obidiah Kane wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Obidiah Kane wrote:
I learn the Ishtar then...
I learn the Loki then...
I learn the Svipul then...
I learn the Domi then...

you are nerfing a lot of ships that new players set as desire targets...is there anyway you could advise us of your rebalance timetable in advance? ie. if you had told me end of last year the Ishtar and Domi I had been training toward (with my PVE toon) were going to have their balls cut off I would have gone Amarr/ Caldari like everyone else, and not wasted months of sub training 'meh' skills I thought were 'Wooo!' skills.

:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.


maybe you should train what you like, rather than being utterly awful



Come again?! What kind of person even writes that? Why write it? What does it even mean?


It means train for broken ships, expecting them to stay that way forever, at your own risk. Smile

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
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