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[Carnyx] Sentry Drone Adjustments

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Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-05-21 14:19:26 UTC
with the new modules boostin tracking the sentry actually can track frigs so i think is good let them come back to anti bs 400mm weapons.

the point only one HAC can field BS size weapon is another thread....
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-05-21 14:20:33 UTC
Obidiah Kane wrote:
I learn the Ishtar then...
I learn the Loki then...
I learn the Svipul then...
I learn the Domi then...

you are nerfing a lot of ships that new players set as desire targets...is there anyway you could advise us of your rebalance timetable in advance? ie. if you had told me end of last year the Ishtar and Domi I had been training toward (with my PVE toon) were going to have their balls cut off I would have gone Amarr/ Caldari like everyone else, and not wasted months of sub training 'meh' skills I thought were 'Wooo!' skills.

:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.


If you only train for the flavour of the month, you are always going to be disappointed.
Mind Rape
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-05-21 14:20:43 UTC
well done Fozzie, another ship nerfed into crap.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
We welcome feedback as always!


nope you don't.
Paessi Mikakka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-05-21 14:22:59 UTC
Blame drones for istar being op...
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-05-21 14:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Obidiah Kane wrote:
I learn the Ishtar then...
I learn the Loki then...
I learn the Svipul then...
I learn the Domi then...

you are nerfing a lot of ships that new players set as desire targets...is there anyway you could advise us of your rebalance timetable in advance? ie. if you had told me end of last year the Ishtar and Domi I had been training toward (with my PVE toon) were going to have their balls cut off I would have gone Amarr/ Caldari like everyone else, and not wasted months of sub training 'meh' skills I thought were 'Wooo!' skills.

:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.


If you only train for the flavour of the month, you are always going to be disappointed.



Jesus, talk about shouting at the wrong guy.

"Hey director dude, screw you, I'm not training ishtar, it's FOTM crap and my spaceship e-bushido prevents this! Stop being awful!"
"Why am I in Native Freshfood?"

Don't hate the line member, hate the doctrine designers [who fairly obviously will go for overpowered crap...because everyone else does,too and at some point we can all fly it all].
Tyr Dolorem
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-05-21 14:26:24 UTC
Why are you nerfing the drones not the hulls that are the problem?
Obidiah Kane
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#27 - 2015-05-21 14:26:35 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Obidiah Kane wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Obidiah Kane wrote:
I learn the Ishtar then...
I learn the Loki then...
I learn the Svipul then...
I learn the Domi then...

you are nerfing a lot of ships that new players set as desire targets...is there anyway you could advise us of your rebalance timetable in advance? ie. if you had told me end of last year the Ishtar and Domi I had been training toward (with my PVE toon) were going to have their balls cut off I would have gone Amarr/ Caldari like everyone else, and not wasted months of sub training 'meh' skills I thought were 'Wooo!' skills.

:( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it.


maybe you should train what you like, rather than being utterly awful



Come again?! What kind of person even writes that? Why write it? What does it even mean?


It means train for broken ships, expecting them to stay that way forever, at your own risk. Smile


So newish player looks at figures/ bonuses in ISIS while deciding what to fly, no idea of meta/ weight of moaning bitter vets at the time...why am I awful? That was my question...I appreciate your point, and others, completely.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#28 - 2015-05-21 14:27:11 UTC
Tyr Dolorem wrote:
Why are you nerfing the drones not the hulls that are the problem?


Good question. Blink

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Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-05-21 14:27:19 UTC
Tyr Dolorem wrote:
Why are you nerfing the drones not the hulls that are the problem?


because its easier
MasterGlorfy
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#30 - 2015-05-21 14:28:43 UTC
I'm disappointed with these changes. Nerfing the weapon system over the ships really seems to have worked out poorly in the past (railgun/tengu , hml/drake).

Given how well CCP did with taking feedback on the Jackdaw balancing and generating an exciting bonus, I expect quite a bit more than a sentry-drone damage/optimal/tracking/falloff numbers game.

Filthy Peasants are recruiting!
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2015-05-21 14:29:15 UTC
Tyr Dolorem wrote:
Why are you nerfing the drones not the hulls that are the problem?

Because both the drones and the hulls are problems, and the solutions will involve ongoing changes to both.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#32 - 2015-05-21 14:30:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Lord LazyGhost wrote:
Tyr Dolorem wrote:
Why are you nerfing the drones not the hulls that are the problem?


because its easier


Stomping the Armageddon into the ground because of the double bonus on the Domi can work, but upto a point.

Though, there's also the issue of carriers employing them - this can't effectively be balanced on a hull basis.

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Alexhandr Shkarov
The MorningStar. Syndicate
#33 - 2015-05-21 14:31:23 UTC
I hope one day the Ishtar loses any sentry bonuses, and instead is more tailored to heavy-drone platforms. It retains a lot of the power but no longer the range that sentries can project damage at.

All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2015-05-21 14:32:26 UTC
where are the ongoing changes to combat drones to make them viable
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#35 - 2015-05-21 14:34:54 UTC
I'm on board with the idea of sentry ships being too strong.

I'm not on board with the concept of nerfing the weapon system instead of the broken hulls.

While you remove 3% dps, drone boats still run around with double 10/7.5 bonuses, drone boats still run around with the same PWG / CPU levels than other ships of their class, even though they don't have to fit weapons (!), ishtars can still use battleship weapons...

So yeah... its too little, too far away from the real issue. But at least the conclusion that something needs to change with sentries is good.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2015-05-21 14:37:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tyr Dolorem wrote:
Why are you nerfing the drones not the hulls that are the problem?

Because both the drones and the hulls are problems, and the solutions will involve ongoing changes to both.


Unless I (and everyone I know) is wrong, you're vastly overstating the drones themselves.

The issue is 95% in the hulls (and that's being kind), if we deleted the ishtar and dominix tomorrow, people wouldn't leap to sentry geddons to replace it, a whole new meta would spring forth. And it would be one without sentries.

If there is some evidence/stats to show my assertion is false, please share Smile

NB: I'm ignoring capitals because that's a whole different bag o' fish.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#37 - 2015-05-21 14:40:11 UTC
Carriers, afkalt, carriers.

You can't balance that platform without either looking at the Sentries as a weapons system, or restricting carriers to fighters-only.

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Savant Alabel
Phoenix Tag.
GF Company
#38 - 2015-05-21 14:50:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Current plan is:
Gardes: -25% Optimal, +33% Falloff, -3% Damage, -6.67% Tracking
Curators: -3.1% Damage, -13% Tracking
Bouncers: -3.3% Damage, -12.5% Tracking

We welcome feedback as always!



So you make sentry drones on non-ishtar/dominix ships fully useless crap? isn't better just drop ability of cruiser-size hulls to launch full pack of sentry?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2015-05-21 14:54:33 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Carriers, afkalt, carriers.

You can't balance that platform without either looking at the Sentries as a weapons system, or restricting carriers to fighters-only.



I did later say I was ignoring capitals. Basically because I didnt want to diverge the thread into them alone (which is where it'll probably end up). Capitals shouldn't be anywhere near subcapital drones. Period. Any attempt to balance subcapital drones deployed form capitals with cavernous drone bays would be an exercise in futility as someone would end up shafted. Caps should have their own drone class.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#40 - 2015-05-21 14:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
As it stands, they are part of the equation.

Perhaps, later on it will change, but they are right now.

afkalt wrote:
Caps should have their own drone class.


As much as that would be reasonable and maybe even balanced, Capital Sentry drones would further disincentivise Battleship use. Blink

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