These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#721 - 2015-05-17 08:39:13 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Sovereignty eh ?
For me there is only one question : Are CCPs doing something to break the huge null sec empires, trying to make the null sec game much more dynamic and interesting for smaller entities,
or do they change EVE to please their mafia buddies ?
The rest is blabla.


You tell me.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#722 - 2015-05-17 08:44:34 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Let this sink in: mining is fun.


Just remember everyone, this person wants CCP to listen to them, and change the game accordingly.

Apparently, into something even more boring and pointless than the average facebook game.

By the way, according to CCP's own numbers on retention, mining is not fun. In fact, it's probably the least enjoyable thing in the game. I would not disagree with that assertion, either.

According to CCP's data PvP is not fun for largest part of customer base. Why do you do it? Shocked


And yet, it's the one thing that makes people most likely to resubscribe.

Hmm. Could it be that they've been listening to the wrong customers for too long?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#723 - 2015-05-17 08:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Malcanis wrote:
Incidentally, this is what "PVE focused" MMOs look like. Get a load of this hooey:

Quote:

"People still do Scorchwing?"


There's a "contract" system; basically daily mini-quests you do at level 50 to fill a bar to get rewards for the week. One of the contract types is do "event X", which killing world bosses are part of.

Actually something of a problem since you only get credit if you damage the boss and do at least 1% of it's HP in damage, which with the large groups that've been forming(since everyone wants to do their contract for the day), an no-one gets credit since it's killed in like 2 seconds with everyone doing .2% of it's HP in damage(all while getting 1 FPS since Wildstar continues to **** the bed with large groups of players).


Yeah I'll stick with EVE, thanks.


Poorly conceived PvE is poorly conceived PvE. Guess what? There's more than that to PvE.

As a quick reminder, my proposed system implied that once a player triggered a PvE event (mission) that mission would be assigned through a double-anonimity contracting system via NPC agents. This way some players would just consume PvE content (never knowing why or for who they fight) and other players would risk losing or winning to the competence of anonymous mercenaries.

("Doh, I betted the survival of my agent to some pro taking a counter-assassination mission with 30/70 chances of victory... and some stupid noob failed it! Now I must look for another agent!")

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#724 - 2015-05-17 08:49:25 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

And yes, you're both clueless and arrogant -you didn't even bothered to wonder why mining is fun


I would have to say that "clueless" and "arrogant" is the person trying to tell me that mining is fun.

You can ramble on about fishing all you want, but it's still a category error on your part. They are far from the same thing.

Quote:

Mining is fun because it allows you to earn a litlte gain while you socialize OR enjoy your precious "Me time" without being bothered by RL issues and other people.


Except that it's the single most anti social activity in the game, besides ship spinning, so that's just a brazen lie. Mission running is almost as bad, although some would claim arguably worse, as you harm your earning potential by doing it in groups.

If you want "Me time", why are you playing a PvP Sandbox MMORPG? Go play Solitaire. If you don't want to be bothered by "other people", why are you playing an expressly multiplayer game?

And most of all, why do you insist that your desire to play the game wrong should warrant a change to the gameplay mechanics?

Quote:

And now comes the part where it turns that a majority of EVE players give money to CCP to do exactly that and nothing else...


Except that, as we went over before, that's a lie. It's you trying to claim an invisible (and imaginary) majority to try and bolster your shaky attempts to try and ruin this game just to cater to your own niche.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#725 - 2015-05-17 08:51:45 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Poorly conceived PvE is poorly conceived PvE. Guess what? There's more than that to PvE.


Better go and tell that to the entire rest of the MMO industry. They haven't figured out how to do it yet, you'd make millions. Go, go! For the good of the city!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#726 - 2015-05-17 09:01:48 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.

we can do a list of fun things

fun things
- occupational health and safety talks
- filling out forms
- lighting a cigarette in the wind
- biting the inside of your cheek
- waiting for pots to boil
- watching highslot modules cycle
- buses
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#727 - 2015-05-17 09:12:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I don't like it so then nobody can like it! And yur a terribad person for liking it!


Well, either you're too young, not enough inteligent or just are trolling me... but you don't get my message and I can't communicate it any better, so i'll just stop discussing it with you. Straight

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#728 - 2015-05-17 09:15:23 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
Why be afraid of wormholes?

It's the best space.



I don't like pew pew. But if I liked pew pew, I would go wormholes, as that's the most carebear-free pew pew in game. What?

(Oh, and because Bob)

What ever gives you that idea? Smile

Wormholes have some of the most lucrative PVE content in the game. There's a ton of folks in w-space who do nothing but run sites every day, suck gas, hack cans and make billions doing so. All the while still getting to enjoy gorgeous space scenery, socialising with friends/corpmates and even laying claim to their own little slice of space by putting a tower down, if they feel like it.

You can keep the rest of New Eden at arm's length, or jump out to highsec and swim in it anytime you like.

You've got some people and groups, like the corp I'm in, who do nothing but PVP though too. But you'll find most of those pilots have alts with farming holes, or a POS they run reactions in, build T3s etc. to make the ISK they need to pew pew on their mains.

Wormholers who do no "carebearing" at all are an extreme minority imo. There's bears err'where!

As for Bob, the great and bitter deity of wormholes? I shared a POS with him for ages and apart from the fact he stinks from never showering, calls your assistant a big yellow dildo and occasionally tries to awox you, he's really just a big teddy bear. Don't worry about him.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#729 - 2015-05-17 09:17:09 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.

we can do a list of fun things

fun things
- occupational health and safety talks
- filling out forms
- lighting a cigarette in the wind
- biting the inside of your cheek
- waiting for pots to boil
- watching highslot modules cycle
- buses



...and fishing.
Blink

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#730 - 2015-05-17 09:22:29 UTC
Just wait, Chunks will tell us next that structure grinding, something more or less universally decried by the playerbase, is fun.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Artemis Ellery Sazas
Scimitar Inc.
#731 - 2015-05-17 09:46:15 UTC
I find mining fun, I find PVE fun and I find some low sec pvp fun, it depends on my mood at the time. So what does that make me? So because I don't play the game a "certain way", I should take my money and move on to another game? That's the beauty of EVE, you can play the game any way or do anything you want.

The most boring activity I have ever done in EVE imo is gank miners, so there you go. It's not fun and your playing wrong, so change your gameplay or move on!
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#732 - 2015-05-17 09:46:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Just wait, Chunks will tell us next that structure grinding, something more or less universally decried by the playerbase, is fun.

Funny you mention that, I've never actually been that averse to structure grinding. Usually because it comes with an eviction or something and a fleet of 30+ makes short work of most structures. I used to siege poorly defended small/medium POS solo (well, if you count numerous alts as solo) just for the "fun" of it. Free killmails, loot and a system to sell afterward. Good times.

But even the most mind-numbing structure bashes still provide a good bonding experience for the girls and, after all, someone needs to clear out those old POCOs for the PI carebears in corp.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#733 - 2015-05-17 09:52:39 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

First: define "fun".


Something done for enjoyment, rather than any particular benefit.

Quote:

Obviously the guy quoting you doesn't knows why mission runners do run missions.


They do it to make money, for whatever reason. Notably, not enjoyment. I've met more than a few nascent mission runners who do it because the NPE led them in that direction, so they think they "have" to run missions.

And we all know that such players, unless interacted with in a meaningful way, eventually quit the game entirely. An argument could easily be made that highsec PvE is actively hurting the game, by damaging potential retention.


You see? Totally clueless. Lol

Let this sink in: mining is fun.

Some people play contact sports. Others go fishing. Part of EVE's beauty is that it allows both styles of having fun, albeit one is neglected and looked upon whereas the other is boasted all over the place. Also, one of the sytles is constantly shoved down the throat of the players who prefer the other style, but that doesn't works in the opposite direction. Some people is in game to be pusshed forever, and some are in game to never risk being pushed back.

And that is an abysmally poor design.



Wait ... so why does PvE needs to be changed if, according to you, it is already so much fun to do?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#734 - 2015-05-17 10:26:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Sovereignty eh ?
For me there is only one question : Are CCPs doing something to break the huge null sec empires, trying to make the null sec game much more dynamic and interesting for smaller entities,
or do they change EVE to please their mafia buddies ?
The rest is blabla.


You tell me.

It really is disheartening when you look at that, then adding FozzieSov to the equation.

I wonder how many years it will take to get a sov system that isn't so biased, if ever.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#735 - 2015-05-17 10:55:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

And yes, you're both clueless and arrogant -you didn't even bothered to wonder why mining is fun


I would have to say that "clueless" and "arrogant" is the person trying to tell me that mining is fun.

You can ramble on about fishing all you want, but it's still a category error on your part. They are far from the same thing.

Quote:

Mining is fun because it allows you to earn a litlte gain while you socialize OR enjoy your precious "Me time" without being bothered by RL issues and other people.


Except that it's the single most anti social activity in the game, besides ship spinning, so that's just a brazen lie. Mission running is almost as bad, although some would claim arguably worse, as you harm your earning potential by doing it in groups.

If you want "Me time", why are you playing a PvP Sandbox MMORPG? Go play Solitaire. If you don't want to be bothered by "other people", why are you playing an expressly multiplayer game?

And most of all, why do you insist that your desire to play the game wrong should warrant a change to the gameplay mechanics?

Quote:

And now comes the part where it turns that a majority of EVE players give money to CCP to do exactly that and nothing else...


Except that, as we went over before, that's a lie. It's you trying to claim an invisible (and imaginary) majority to try and bolster your shaky attempts to try and ruin this game just to cater to your own niche.


I have to say, I left two mining corps / alliances during my first year playing because all the socializing drained me. Sometimes I don't want to blab with corpmates or be at their beck and call for assistance. I found myself immediately logging back off when I saw that corpchat or teamspeak was full of players. I joined a two man group with a RL friend because he also didn't want to spend his time in pointless conversation with corp members. I found mining corps to be TOO social.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#736 - 2015-05-17 10:58:57 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.

we can do a list of fun things

fun things
- occupational health and safety talks
- filling out forms
- lighting a cigarette in the wind
- biting the inside of your cheek
- waiting for pots to boil
- watching highslot modules cycle
- buses



...and fishing.
Blink


Been there, done that and you know what - It was fun.
Not the waiting for a bite or the time it takes to fill your ore hold but the social interactions. Being with friends doing something that only has limited or no "fun" value can make it an enjoyable experience.

Fishing - Get up at 4 am drag your sorry ass down to the boat ramp, meet up with friends, travel for hours to find the right reef, spend hours waiting for a bite, while all the time talking and laughing with mates about anything that comes to mind

Mining - Find the right asteroid belt, sit in it for hours while your ore hold fills up continually, with 20 other guys, linking good (or bad) porn, talking and laughing about anything that comes to mind.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#737 - 2015-05-17 11:24:35 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.

we can do a list of fun things

fun things
- occupational health and safety talks
- filling out forms
- lighting a cigarette in the wind
- biting the inside of your cheek
- waiting for pots to boil
- watching highslot modules cycle
- buses



...and fishing.
Blink


Been there, done that and you know what - It was fun.
Not the waiting for a bite or the time it takes to fill your ore hold but the social interactions. Being with friends doing something that only has limited or no "fun" value can make it an enjoyable experience.

Fishing - Get up at 4 am drag your sorry ass down to the boat ramp, meet up with friends, travel for hours to find the right reef, spend hours waiting for a bite, while all the time talking and laughing with mates about anything that comes to mind

Mining - Find the right asteroid belt, sit in it for hours while your ore hold fills up continually, with 20 other guys, linking good (or bad) ****, talking and laughing about anything that comes to mind.


Like a gate camp but with more action!
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#738 - 2015-05-17 11:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Harrison Tato wrote:

I have to say, I left two mining corps / alliances during my first year playing because all the socializing drained me. Sometimes I don't want to blab with corpmates or be at their beck and call for assistance.


Some/Lots of people feel similar.
Get up
go to work
come home
play a bit
go to sleep.

Fill this up with householding and preparing food, there is no much time left.
How long does it take to get fleets up?
A fight?
How much time to invest for your EvE Social-live?

I log into EvE to mine?
Yes: i am HOME in New Eden so being there just for mining is still fun.
Mine stuff, produce stuff and when finished, smash it again.

What i want to say, is that EvE is not dying, because you just add more short-while stuff.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#739 - 2015-05-17 12:17:05 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Sovereignty eh ?
For me there is only one question : Are CCPs doing something to break the huge null sec empires, trying to make the null sec game much more dynamic and interesting for smaller entities,
or do they change EVE to please their mafia buddies ?
The rest is blabla.


You tell me.

It really is disheartening when you look at that, then adding FozzieSov to the equation.

I wonder how many years it will take to get a sov system that isn't so biased, if ever.



What's disheartening? Seeing 2/3 of the map opening up for independent grouping? (It will be even more soon, because some of those existing groups will fall apart at the first hard shove, allowing even more opportunities for new claimants - start bookmarking. XiX space now. And a lot of the southeast too.)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Thora Zhubilai
Bluenose Corporation
#740 - 2015-05-17 13:17:14 UTC
What does it mean?
To have Fun in EVE!
Is there only one kind of Fun?
Is there only one way to have Fun?

I Think NO.
There are many ways to have Fun.
And what’s Fun for player X must not be Funny for player Y.

Is Pew Pew Fun? Is mining Fun? Is missioning Fun? Is Industry Fun?
YES all those things are Fun…just not for everyone!

Can you play EVE without interacting with other players?
Yes, but it will be very difficult to do! ...probably you will have to move to a system at the End of New EDEN.
Its fact that everything you’ do (ingame) will bring you to interact with other player, sometime more, sometime lesser.

NOW Why do Newbies leave the game so quickly?

At first I think most of them are afraid.
Afraid about what they see. They have no way to follow. Don‘t forget, most of them have played other games which show them the path to follow.
In EVE they have nothing like that. Much of them probably feel lost in that big universe.

The Skills!
There are so many Skills! What should be the choice? They just see, to reach that wonderful BS will need few months…and if no one explain them…

I think the first two weeks in EVE are the most important. If they find some help probably they will stay, if they find not they will leave.

It is probably true to say that players which go early to PvP have a higher retention.
But I think that has more to do with the facts that by doing PvP they quickly find contact to similar minded folks.

My point to EVE:
Yes EVE is a PvP sandbox!
Yes PvP is the Core of the sandbox.
All other things you can do just exist to make PvP possible. (Content created by players)

This doesn’t mean I am a PvPer, absolutely not.
Sind’s I started to play EVE two years ago, I did avoid all direct PvP.
Also the time I was in Null (corp was by NA) I never participated to fleets and roams (just had/and still have no interests in), I did supply the corps with minerals and stuff… and YES mining and industries are fun.
Yes I got killed; I lost (in Null, in Low and HS) Exhumers, Freighters, Haulers and a lot of stuff. And each time I learned about.
Should this be a reason to whine?
Should this be a reason to ask for change the game mechanic? (I.e. to make my ship indestructible)
Should this be a reason to leave the game?
Should CCP “Cut” PvP?

NO! never!
It’s part of the game.

Some parts of New Eden are absolutely to quiet!
When i am mining or hauling and No one try to kill me, is like eating an unsalted soup.

I remember my first trip to Low… (I heard about higher value of ore)
With my 4 days old char in Rookie Ship I jumped into low…
First gate no problems, looking the roids, but nothing with high value,
Next gate was to 0.3 system, jump... I got in a big white bubble… did looks nice and strange that thing… was suddenly back in station.
Did took next ship and jumped to another Low system…with success



My only regret is not to have begun much earlier to play EVE

Hi all!