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PLEX prices getting too high

First post
Author
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2015-05-11 05:26:03 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Quote:
PLEX prices getting too high


Getting too high?

They've been too high since forever. Time to get rid of them and go back to GTCs. Use Arum for special events, fanfest tickets, for good and all the other crap PLEX has been turned into a currency for. Or at least change the name from Pilot Licence Extension to Game Cash or something more honest like that.

Mr Epeen Cool


To be perfectly honest, I don't think this would do anything. Prior to PLEX people were able to sell GTCs on the forums. You'd have to ban that too. And the whole point of selling GTCs on the forum and PLEX in game is to put a limit on RMT. Why should I risk my account status for a meager 150 or so million ISK when I can buy a PLEX and sell it in game?

And rising PLEX prices means that RMT ISK exchange ratio has to drop. Nothing is all bad.

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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#42 - 2015-05-11 06:10:50 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Quote:
PLEX prices getting too high


Getting too high?

They've been too high since forever. Time to get rid of them and go back to GTCs. Use Arum for special events, fanfest tickets, for good and all the other crap PLEX has been turned into a currency for. Or at least change the name from Pilot Licence Extension to Game Cash or something more honest like that.

Mr Epeen Cool


To be perfectly honest, I don't think this would do anything. Prior to PLEX people were able to sell GTCs on the forums. You'd have to ban that too. And the whole point of selling GTCs on the forum and PLEX in game is to put a limit on RMT. Why should I risk my account status for a meager 150 or so million ISK when I can buy a PLEX and sell it in game?

And rising PLEX prices means that RMT ISK exchange ratio has to drop. Nothing is all bad.


Yeah it's too late to fix this now. But I fought tooth and nail against introducing PLEX into the game. Replacing RMT with RMT was not, and is not the solution. It's just CCP shrugging and saying "Well, we can't stop it, so we might as well make some money off it."

Did PLEX stop devaluing ISK? No. Did it stop people buying SP? No. Did it stop ISK buyers? No. Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was being blamed for? Not a bit. Did it in any way do anything to help the game? If you've been around as long as I have then you know the answer.

So here's a big fat I TOLD YOU SO, CCP!.

Mr Epeen Cool
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2015-05-11 06:12:39 UTC
I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

IMO, fix the price of PLEX. I hate that idea, but its probably the only way to control it.
Kashadin
Big Johnson's
#44 - 2015-05-11 06:29:58 UTC
To the people saying that CCP needs to do something about the price of PLEX.

Why would they want to? That PLEX had to be bought, from them, at some point to be on the market. The going price of a PLEX is at a higher cost than the standard sub so at the end of the day the more people paying for a acct with PLEX the better, they make a few extra bucks off the acct than they would over a standard sub.

Add in the fact that every time a PLEX gets blown up or turned into AUR that is another 30 days of game time that CCP has already been paid for, taken out of the system w/o having to give anyone game time, which means that they can get it out of you another way (either you use another PLEX or you pay a sub)

Add into that if the people who quit the game with stockpiles of PLEX in their acct because it's a fairly safe commodity to invest in (both from a transport and from a potential return on investment) that they know that if they decide to come back they can always use that pile to make quick ISK to get back into w/e they want.


Also anyone who is looking for a quick injection of ISK, and has the ability to spend an extra $20usd to pick up a PLEX can do so, making CCP that much more money. And the higher the price for PLEX, the more likely people are to do that.


Yes the amount of ISK in the game is going up, there is no way that will change unless CCP either took a real world approach and limited the amount of total ISK in the game (terrible terrible idea) or if they somehow found a ISK sink that was fair to both high-end players that can log in and make 100+mill a hour consistently and the low-end players who struggle to make 20mill/hour. A hard task that I have yet to see any game do.


At the end tho, I think it is in CCPs best interest to allow the players to decide the cost of this in-game item. If the prices rise to the point that no one can afford it....then the prices will come down as people sell off stock piles and people who weren't interested in it finally take to the idea of some quick ISK. There will never come a day when the price of ISK out does the average income of a player. And there will never come a day when the idea of taking a overt hand in the control of the price of any in-game item (baring skill books) will ever be in CCPs best interest.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#45 - 2015-05-11 06:39:27 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Well, if the long term trend continues in about 6-8 months the price of a PLEX will be above 900 million and sustained. In about a year and a half, it will be above a billion.

There are a number of possible explanations, but the most likely is that we have more ISK entering the New Eden economy. For example, we have this post indicating that from 2010 to 2012 the amount of ISK entering the New Eden economy increased by 260% (380 billion isk/day to around 1 trillion isk/day).
Agreed.

Mr Epeen wrote:
Did PLEX stop devaluing ISK? No. Did it stop people buying SP? No. Did it stop ISK buyers? No. Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was being blamed for? Not a bit. Did it in any way do anything to help the game? If you've been around as long as I have then you know the answer.
To be fair it did help because it diverted cash that would have gone to black market RMTers to CCP which means the game is at least benefiting when people buy it. It also put in official competition which makes it much harder for RMTers to operate effectively, which reduces how many even attempt to operate. EVE is a game with overly simple mechanics in too many areas. If illegitimate RMT were more rampant, botters would trash the economy in heartbeat.

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Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2015-05-11 08:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassius Invictus
Ajunta Pal wrote:
The PLEX sales seem to be CCPs way of countering the inflation, to a limited extent. CCP would have to perform market manipulation if they want to control the upper limit.

Keep in mind, most people can work in RL for 3-4 hours if they want a plex - where it takes 4-16 hours in game


Yep. I don't get it... why spend most time in game doing boring stuff to pay for a plex... I mean you can earn so much more in RL. Besides I think CCP should get paid for maintaining this game like they do. I play a lot of online games and I wish their developers put half the effort the CCP does (I'm looking at you wargaming Evil).
Solecist Project
#47 - 2015-05-11 08:46:45 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Ajunta Pal wrote:
The PLEX sales seem to be CCPs way of countering the inflation, to a limited extent. CCP would have to perform market manipulation if they want to control the upper limit.

Keep in mind, most people can work in RL for 3-4 hours if they want a plex - where it takes 4-16 hours in game


Yep. I don't get it... why spend most time in game doing boring stuff to pay for a plex... I mean you can earn so much more in RL. Besides I think CCP should get paid for maintaining this game like they do. I play a lot of online games and I wish their developers put half the effort the CCP does (I'm looking at you wargaming Evil).

Discussing this is pretty stupid. Besides that, I bet if you actually thought about it,
you would come up with at least a few. Because you didn't, else you'd figure it out.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Zarere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-05-11 08:47:08 UTC
I dont get it, why do people play to pay for their plexes?, even in incursions it takes 3-4 hours to make the 750-850 million it costs to buy a plex.

And with mining it takes 10+ hours to get the same amount of isk.

Thats a ****** hourly wage, get a job instead, and play the game with the remaining time.

The mentality that you can pay for eve by playing the game is what have lead to these high plex prices, because everyone is buying plex to play the game.

Meanwhile the 1%'ers make about 3-4 billion an hour by working a regular job and then buying plexes to sell.
Solecist Project
#49 - 2015-05-11 08:49:24 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Quote:
PLEX prices getting too high


Getting too high?

They've been too high since forever. Time to get rid of them and go back to GTCs. Use Arum for special events, fanfest tickets, for good and all the other crap PLEX has been turned into a currency for. Or at least change the name from Pilot Licence Extension to Game Cash or something more honest like that.

Mr Epeen Cool


To be perfectly honest, I don't think this would do anything. Prior to PLEX people were able to sell GTCs on the forums. You'd have to ban that too. And the whole point of selling GTCs on the forum and PLEX in game is to put a limit on RMT. Why should I risk my account status for a meager 150 or so million ISK when I can buy a PLEX and sell it in game?

And rising PLEX prices means that RMT ISK exchange ratio has to drop. Nothing is all bad.


Yeah it's too late to fix this now. But I fought tooth and nail against introducing PLEX into the game. Replacing RMT with RMT was not, and is not the solution. It's just CCP shrugging and saying "Well, we can't stop it, so we might as well make some money off it."

Did PLEX stop devaluing ISK? No. Did it stop people buying SP? No. Did it stop ISK buyers? No. Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was being blamed for? Not a bit. Did it in any way do anything to help the game? If you've been around as long as I have then you know the answer.

So here's a big fat I TOLD YOU SO, CCP!.

Mr Epeen Cool

Okay, so let's say I agree with you and now we're both wrong.


What's the issue, exactly?
Because it doesn't seem like there is one.

And PLEX definitely helped against RMTers and ISK buyers.
Did it remove them? No. Is it daft to assume such a thing is possible? Yes.

So?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Solecist Project
#50 - 2015-05-11 08:51:17 UTC
Zarere wrote:
I dont get it, why do people play to pay for their plexes?, even in incursions it takes 3-4 hours to make the 750-850 million it costs to buy a plex.

And with mining it takes 10+ hours to get the same amount of isk.

Thats a ****** hourly wage, get a job instead, and play the game with the remaining time.

The mentality that you can pay for eve by playing the game is what have lead to these high plex prices, because everyone is buying plex to play the game.

Meanwhile the 1%'ers make about 3-4 billion an hour by working a regular job and then buying plexes to sell.

That's such a stupid troll-post, you should be fired.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Luna Amouh
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2015-05-11 09:37:59 UTC
What I find interesting is that a lot of people complain because they can't plex their accounts with minimal effort. That someone else had to buy the plex for 20 €/$ is completely ignored.

In the end it it a simple question of supply/demand. If nobody is investing real life money to get a measly 300m - 500m ISK, PLEX prices will rise to an acceptable level.

A lot of people seem to think that they are entitled to get PLEX for cheap, which obviously they are not.


Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#52 - 2015-05-11 10:24:50 UTC
Ajunta Pal wrote:
The PLEX sales seem to be CCPs way of countering the inflation, to a limited extent. CCP would have to perform market manipulation if they want to control the upper limit.

Keep in mind, most people can work in RL for 3-4 hours if they want a plex - where it takes 4-16 hours in game

My current salary is 2.5 plex an hour. I live in a country where a beer is 1/2 a plex and a movie is 1.2 plex. Going out to dinner with my wife (who plays eve) is 6plex.

Yet i still NPC :D but we do it as a corp and its fun.

I always wonder about the plex price. It sells. Look at the volume. So if its too expensive who the hell is buying it. The answer is very simple. Its not too expensive.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Mizhir
TOP DAMAGE Ltd.
Trigger Happy.
#53 - 2015-05-11 11:02:00 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Oh... this topic again.

Is it that time of the month?


Fixed for you.

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Trajan Unknown
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2015-05-11 11:05:35 UTC
I like high plex prices but they will come and go like everything.
But for people like who don´t really invest time into ingame mechanics to make ISK it´s nice to sell plex. For me it breaks down to a simple formula.

If time > money

buy plex
else do pve/something else.


My time is worth more than the money I spend on plex so buying plex and sell it after is no biggie for me and there a lot of people who do the same. And as said in another thread, be happy that there are people who actually buy "your" plex for real money else there won´t be "free EvE" for you. :)
Angelica Everstar
#55 - 2015-05-11 11:58:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Everstar
As always, I find this kind of thread really funny.

So many people talking about something, that they clearly have no idea how works.
As I have stated many times before, "this is just the beginning" Roll



P.S. A heartfelt "Thank you" to all the people that spent RL money, so I can play EVE for free Attention

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ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
#56 - 2015-05-11 12:03:38 UTC
to be honest it depends if your the buyer or seller. I sell plex to get ISK therefore the more it goes up the better. I would just buy plex for game time from a third party which is easier and probably cheaper trying to grind 800mill isk unless of course your doing c6 wormholes :)
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#57 - 2015-05-11 12:43:34 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

IMO, fix the price of PLEX. I hate that idea, but its probably the only way to control it.

If you feel there is too much ISK in the game, here is the way you can fix it.

1) Go to a system where the NPCs are selling either skill books or BPOs.
2) Buy a bunch. ISK has now left the game.
3) Jet what you bought and destroy the can.
4) Repeat until the ISK supply has been reduced to your satisfaction.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2015-05-11 12:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mr Epeen wrote:
Did PLEX stop devaluing ISK? No. Did it stop people buying SP? No. Did it stop ISK buyers? No. Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was being blamed for? Not a bit. Did it in any way do anything to help the game? If you've been around as long as I have then you know the answer.

Most of that is because it never intended to do anything of the kind.

PLEX can't affect the value of ISK because they're almost completely economy-neutral. There was never any intent of making them affect the changes in value of ISK (not to mention that the supposed devaluation is up for debate to begin with…).

PLEX did not stop people buying SP for the simple reason that nothing can stop something that doesn't exist. The game mechanics of how SP is created stop people from buying SP (i.e. there are no mechanics that would even remotely allow for it) — PLEX isn't even a factor — so that could never be an intent either.

Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was blamed for? No, because the intent was never to stop anything — not even CCP is that delusional — only to offer a far less harmful and safe alternative to the same demand. As it happens it did do that: rather than using a service that often hinges on fraud and account theft, people can get their hands on a good that they can trade for ISK without other customers (or CCP) suffering any ill consequences from it. As such, if you've been around for as long (or longer) than you have, you will know that PLEX has helped the game in quite a few ways.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#59 - 2015-05-11 13:00:51 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

IMO, fix the price of PLEX. I hate that idea, but its probably the only way to control it.



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Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia
#60 - 2015-05-11 13:17:09 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
[quote=Teckos Pech]
Yeah it's too late to fix this now. But I fought tooth and nail against introducing PLEX into the game. Replacing RMT with RMT was not, and is not the solution. It's just CCP shrugging and saying "Well, we can't stop it, so we might as well make some money off it."

Did PLEX stop devaluing ISK? No. Did it stop people buying SP? No. Did it stop ISK buyers? No. Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was being blamed for? Not a bit. Did it in any way do anything to help the game? If you've been around as long as I have then you know the answer.

So here's a big fat I TOLD YOU SO, CCP!.

Mr Epeen Cool


Nothing is ever going to stop RMT completely short of spyware style programs like Warden, and even that doesn't stop botters completely. The questions are 1) if PLEX increases or reduces RMT and 2) if PLEX is good for EVE.

On (1), any alternative to RMT that doesn't get you banned seems like it should be preferable, and given that you can now get 800mil for $15 via PLEX versus 1bil for $12 via RMT, PLEX provides a pretty compelling alternative.

On (2), in my opinion an expanding high quality subscriber base makes EVE better, and PLEX makes eve affordable to some people who otherwise wouldn't be able to play. Additionally, people with one account can afford two or three instead, which helps CCP make EVE a better game.