These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Scylla] Skynet - Removing Fighter Assist

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ramases Purvanen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1221 - 2015-03-19 05:09:46 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-scylla
Quote:
Fighters can no longer be assigned to other pilots. The ‘Delegate Control’ option has been removed and replaced by ‘Assist’ and ‘Defend’, same as other drones.

Fighter 'assist' will apparently function like regular drone assist, with the addition of warp capability (fighters will follow the assisted ship into/out of warp).

I kind of doubt that. Delegating fighter control essentially meant that calculations of control range were based on the ship which had control at the time. Drone assist still bases control range off of the ship that launched the drones. This means, if I'm right, that the carrier still has to be on grid with the fighters in order for commands (other than return) to be given.

So I don't think fighters will follow the assistee into warp.



Yeah I would like to know if the fighters still warp when the carrier warps off grid or if the assisted person warps off grid.

CCP TELL US!!!!
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1222 - 2015-03-19 05:48:14 UTC
Proof once again CCP does NOT listen to it's customers.

Be sure to make lots of noise during fanfest about this bullshit.

Been around since the beginning.
Galian Kile
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#1223 - 2015-03-19 07:37:49 UTC
I have to add something to the new assist mechanic that will be implemented. I was on SISI testing the new ASSIST option on the carrier. If the carrier gets a "CONTROL RANGE" to fighters, if I am assisting fighters, that "CONTROL RANGE" should apply to the assist since the carrier is on GRID. It is currently limited to 56-60km which is the standard Skill Based Control Range and is not including the Carrier Control Range Bonus.

So it looks like a broken system is replacing a non-broken game mechanic...
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1224 - 2015-03-19 08:16:51 UTC
Galian Kile wrote:
I was on SISI testing the new ASSIST option on the carrier. If the carrier gets a "CONTROL RANGE" to fighters, if I am assisting fighters, that "CONTROL RANGE" should apply to the assist since the carrier is on GRID. It is currently limited to 56-60km which is the standard Skill Based Control Range and is not including the Carrier Control Range Bonus.

Is this intentional or an oversight?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1225 - 2015-03-19 09:49:27 UTC
If deploying fighters in relative safety is the issue then either remove fighter warp ability or make fighter assist an ongrid only thing.

If they go ahead with this extreme proposal, then drone assist should just be completely removed from the game.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Neyko Turama
Nomadic Vanguards
#1226 - 2015-03-19 12:11:21 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Proof once again CCP does NOT listen to it's customers.

Be sure to make lots of noise during fanfest about this bullshit.



Its not like they are just not listening.
They tell you to do proposals and bring up your ideas. In normal conversations both sithes of a dispute express themselves. CPPs only expression in this case is the boot with which they hit our opinions in the face. Again and again.

Icelandic History X
Dr Aether
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1227 - 2015-03-19 13:18:04 UTC
While I agree that sitting next to a POS and projecting power half-way across the system is kind of crap, I think removing the warp and assignment is perhaps a bit heavy. How about restricting the capability of the receiving ship, perhaps by giving the fighters a drone bandwidth requirement?

This would then remove Interceptor assigning, and increase risk by forcing larger more capable ships onto the battlefield that are capable of controlling them.

Also, are Fighters too immuned to EW, and should this be reviewed?

Just a though :)
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1228 - 2015-03-19 13:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Galian Kile wrote:
I have to add something to the new assist mechanic that will be implemented. I was on SISI testing the new ASSIST option on the carrier. If the carrier gets a "CONTROL RANGE" to fighters, if I am assisting fighters, that "CONTROL RANGE" should apply to the assist since the carrier is on GRID. It is currently limited to 56-60km which is the standard Skill Based Control Range and is not including the Carrier Control Range Bonus.

So it looks like a broken system is replacing a non-broken game mechanic...


Carrier's bonused and enhanced control range would have made it too easy to hide capitals in adjacent grids and as they can't chop grids out the game hence this... whole thing is a bloody hacksaw job and should be put on hold until they can put a competent solution in place.

Dr Aether wrote:

Also, are Fighters too immuned to EW, and should this be reviewed?

Just a though :)


Its an interesting question but generally wouldn't have made much odds in the cases where "skynet" really became a problem - most people wouldn't really be in a position to jam them to any useful degree (ecm would be better used to get yourself unpointed) and being able to warp disrupt them would maybe mean you killed 1-2 fighters but you'd still die a horrible death. In situations where your able to exert ewar effectively against fighters your usually in a situation where fighters are a minor consideration in the fight any way.
Tiberizzle
Your Mom Heavy Industries
#1229 - 2015-03-19 14:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberizzle
fighter guard on sisi is kind of garbage, guard only guards for one aggressor then they sit there like retards, kind of like their aggressive mode behavior

fighters are hitting rock bottom 'not even worth training, 250m lossmail padding in drone bay' status again with the unnecessary scanres and debatable delegation nerfs -- is there any possibility that they can get the 'shoot one thing then sit there like a ******' behavior removed for guard and aggressive modes as consolation for this kneecapping? there is basically no reason to use them over geckos or heavy drones in most situations with the nerf, and there's pretty much no reason for them to behave like this when they are now big normal drones in every other respect.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1230 - 2015-03-19 14:42:04 UTC
^^ It is a bit silly, if they are gonna implement this mess they might as well pull fighters entirely and replace them with a new heavy drone like the gecko but with a bit more firepower to make up the difference and without the other drawbacks of expense and volume, etc. :S
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1231 - 2015-03-19 15:50:17 UTC
Tiberizzle wrote:
fighter guard on sisi is kind of garbage, guard only guards for one aggressor then they sit there like retards, kind of like their aggressive mode behavior

So do Fighters need to be overhauled? ie: less mass and substantially lower cost (allowing carriers to carry and field more)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1232 - 2015-03-19 16:20:11 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Proof once again CCP does NOT listen to it's customers.

Be sure to make lots of noise during fanfest about this bullshit.


To the space statues!

And unsub some cyno alts!

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Antonia Iskarius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1233 - 2015-03-19 16:20:39 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Numen Anomalie wrote:
"Reads the patch notes, see's fighter assist removal"

You still have fighter assist and fighter warp. You just can't assign fighters to attack as before.

I'm kind of wondering what is the point if I can't even control the ******* things when assigned. They are just going to sit there all stupid and take damage?
Galian Kile
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#1234 - 2015-03-19 17:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Galian Kile
Rroff wrote:
[quote=Galian Kile]I have to add something to the new assist mechanic that will be implemented. I was on SISI testing the new ASSIST option on the carrier. If the carrier gets a "CONTROL RANGE" to fighters, if I am assisting fighters, that "CONTROL RANGE" should apply to the assist since the carrier is on GRID. It is currently limited to 56-60km which is the standard Skill Based Control Range and is not including the Carrier Control Range Bonus.

So it looks like a broken system is replacing a non-broken game mechanic...

Carrier's bonused and enhanced control range would have made it too easy to hide capitals in adjacent grids and as they can't chop grids out the game hence this... whole thing is a bloody hacksaw job and should be put on hold until they can put a competent solution in place.



I see what you are saying. But a Carrier won't be "offgrid" if control range comes into play. At max skills, your control range would be about 120km's? That is not offgrid... And why would you waste your High slots with DCA's to increase that range slightly? It would still not be offgrid, because as soon as my carrier went "offgrid" fighters warped back to me... This should get fixed...
Sumeragy
Nemesis Logistics
Goonswarm Federation
#1235 - 2015-03-19 18:31:35 UTC
So again some PVP guys complains "Uhhh i can´t kill him because he got fighter suppport, NERV IT AWAY"
CCP decides to remove it or start a diskussion about it?

Srsly ....

If those ppl have a problem that they can´t roam in a System that they got fighter support. They could bring in theyr own carrier to get theyr own fighter. The System as it is, is working and its widly used in EvE. And besides the Only downside is that some PVP guys have to fight off the fighter first or engage the Carrier so it docks or warps save to a pos.


If u gona remove Figter Assist just remove assist at all. You are nerving already the Ishtar thats also used in PVE so its match in PVP.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1236 - 2015-03-19 18:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Galian Kile wrote:


I see what you are saying. But a Carrier won't be "offgrid" if control range comes into play. At max skills, your control range would be about 120km's? That is not offgrid... And why would you waste your High slots with DCA's to increase that range slightly? It would still not be offgrid, because as soon as my carrier went "offgrid" fighters warped back to me... This should get fixed...

You have a point about high slot usage after the change - used to depend on the shape of the grid but not tried it in awhile to be fair so might not still be possible.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1237 - 2015-03-19 19:23:47 UTC
it is curious why they cost so much though?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Scout Sergeant Mkoll
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1238 - 2015-03-19 22:08:33 UTC
carriers are slow, they have, signature like earth itsself. jump range has been reduced, fatigue set up.
If fighters are not to assist and not able to warp anymore, what is the idea about using carriers with fighters in battles?
fighters will be nothing else than havy drones and carriers nothing else than useless super-dominix

I understand, ccp wants to give better chances to smaller Groups, to survive a battle, but they take the wrong way.
former small Groups with strong ships could handle big numbers, in the future big numbers will do, nothing is able to stop them, if others dont have the Tools to deal with it.

can I bring a drake?

just my 50c
Ramases Purvanen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1239 - 2015-03-19 22:54:53 UTC
Tiberizzle wrote:
fighter guard on sisi is kind of garbage, guard only guards for one aggressor then they sit there like retards, kind of like their aggressive mode behavior

fighters are hitting rock bottom 'not even worth training, 250m lossmail padding in drone bay' status again with the unnecessary scanres and debatable delegation nerfs -- is there any possibility that they can get the 'shoot one thing then sit there like a ******' behavior removed for guard and aggressive modes as consolation for this kneecapping? there is basically no reason to use them over geckos or heavy drones in most situations with the nerf, and there's pretty much no reason for them to behave like this when they are now big normal drones in every other respect.



Well look at the bright side, at least you can dock your carrier and super carrier and let it rust away as they arent needed anymore!

If you had a Nyx, by the time you get it out of station you just might have a Hel instead as its rusted away so bad from not being used...
Lord Christian
Sternen Krieger
#1240 - 2015-03-19 23:26:55 UTC
we must have same other defance, we then need point defance guns on capitals