Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think fighter assist should not be removed, only nerfed. What if you had to be a certain minimum distance from a starbase field to do it, or you could only assign them to one pilot, or only a few at a time can be sent to assist? What if it took more bandwidth to operate them at a greater distance? Things like this can nerf it in such a way as to discourage abusing the system while keeping the flexibility of capital ships.

If fighters needed extra bandwidth to warp, a pilot could prevent them from warping by having all bandwidth used, or allow them to warp by not using all of it.

Sure if you get into that position to force their hand to run to safety - its easier said than done.

Sure its entry level dps for dreads but its still ballpark dread dps compared to anything else. My comment on the speed was a generalisation as as you pointed out supers can potentially do far more than the 5.5km/s in my video and the revenant (which is actually used a bit in the context of skynet) gets a bonus to fighter speeds and can top 12km/s. As an aside the revenant also only needs 2 people on grid to do its 7+K dps and with the recent changes to the number of fighters a super can field you only need 3 with those as well.

I'd like to see the brave Super pilot who doesn't turn on his tower, or warp from his safespot to his tower if we were to implement the minimum assign distance, when an enemy Sabre or Devoter appears on d-scan. It isn't "ballpark" DPS for dreads unless you have a character who finished Siege Module I thirty seconds ago and fit more tank than mag stabs.
I PYFA'd their speed to counterpoint your fabled "9km/s" fighters. If you do fit for max speed, you have zero tracking or optimal bonuses from Omnidirectional Links which means if a player takes evasive maneuvers instead of "beelines" it, he'll have a decent chance of avoiding the drones.
While your first point about the Revenant is on point regarding the speed, you either fail to see or refuse to see the recent Revenant killmail that just occurred. It was supposedly safe, all it needed to do was just edge back into the shields. But it got blapped by PL before it could. The Revenant's power is balanced by 1) it's rarity and 2) the fact that everyone and their mother would sell their left [REDACTED] to appear on the killmail, even in an Ibis. And again, each player can only "hold" 5 fighters, so the Revenant will still need another supercarrier or two to achieve a Moros's DPS.
In short, you're grasping at straws.

If anyone's been picking at technicalities, it's you. I'm just trying to make sure your math is up to speed with the realities of EFT/PYFA, however those examples we've discussed were very uncommon. For example, for the Revenant to achieve the maximum speed of it's Fighters we mentioned, it would need the top officer modules available in EVE Online, which, according to PYFA, go for 20b in Jita. If a single purple module on a battleship warrants it getting ganked in Niarja, imagine what sort of attention a ship-full will grab? If, for example, we have a minimum of, say, 50km where caps cannot assist fighters, that leaves a nice margin of error for a ship to get bubbled. Additionally, if supers now use "uber safe spots zomg", and you force them to panic warp to a POS, that's mission success, much the same way that Jita duelers / station gamers call it a victory of they force someone else to de-aggress and dock, or to pull out their Nestor and panic-rep.

I can't believe you guys are still arguing about damage amounts. The damage they deal isn't the problem. It's the risk averse chump tactics at the edge of a pos shield / pw entry screen open / on the station undock that are the problem. It's not that they can be delegated, it's that they can be delegated from risk averse chump safety. The lame mechanic is the ability to nose back into the pos, NOT that fighters are delagated.

Make the delegating ship actually enter the field of combat in some manner and delegating fighters is just fine.

Drone assist is also fine.

Sentry assist is broken due to instant dps and no need for drone travel time.


It's risk averse chump tactics (pos/docking games) and deliberate pre-meditated player induced server and soul crushing lag (sentries) that are the problem. There is NO DPS ISSUE here.

Focus laddies!

+1 for warp fighter

and a micro jump drive for capital.....

I've been glossing over as many Game Developer, ISD and CSM posts as I can as well as looking at some of the better written forum posts throughout the entirety of the thread and I must say:

Ultimately I am greatly disappointed with the decision to remove carrier and super carrier fighter assistance from the game.

Of course I had my own rational reasons to disagree with this game-play change which of course doesn't outweigh anyone else's opinions or statements; what bothers me though is that the issue is once again splitting the community in a roughly 50/50 manner. There were some outright rejections of the proposal and welcoming acceptance from some. What I took from most of the posts is that there is a discrepancy between whether this is a black and white issue or a more complicated gray area. Based on how split the community was I would have preferred that the developers would step back from the mechanic and at least wait until other aspects of the game were changed (sentries, T3s, upcoming super secret Jovian tech I think at least, don't quote me bro ) before trying to remove features that may alter the game play of lowsec/nullsec capital engagements. There were many suggestions and alternatives that were proposed and even though they weren't perfect, it showed that the EVE community was prepared to cooperatively work with CCP to find a reasonable and feasible solution over time, even if it meant delaying the fighter changes to the next expansion after Scylla.

I would like to see us all take a look back at the history of carriers and fighter deployment over the past 2 sovereignty systems and look forward to the upcoming sovereignty systems and fully evaluate what content we may be losing by removing features. I don't want to write a novel but a few examples: we are going to see less carriers being used as long distance support in systems players work tirelessly to defend (consider the investment, towers, bubbles, fighter costs, possible carrier losses). We are going to see less combat carriers on the field now that titans can liberally doomsday in low-sec (which is a fine trade off for using LS/NS stargates anyways) and therefore less targets, weaker sub cap defense fleets for smaller entities. Again, I can't write a novel but those are some examples. I can see the issue of starbase shield security and saying that carriers are relatively safe but realistically, you're a bump away from losing your delegation fit carrier.

Of course I have more examples and some psuedo solutions but that's no longer the issue.

Anyways, it is my sincerest request that we hold off on changing fighter delegation for another patch so that we can come up with a true solution to re balancing capital ships in the long run.

If you agree with what I say, please just quote me, hopefully we can stop this from happening too soon, just remember the ultimate rule of rebalancing: once a feature is removed, it may never return. Alternatively you can EVE mail me in game to give me your two cents as I'm curious as to what most players truly have to say about the change.

Thank you for reading as always. Fly Safe o7

Fire rise. For bad game design reasons.

No data needed.

First off, nobody in their right mind would put those rigs onto a supercarrier, let alone a Revenant. Second of all, you have 2.8m EHP without Slaves, which means a single Titan and a single dread and you're the proud owner of an all new ALOD. Third of all, nobody would dare fit that sort of supercarrier if they were 50km from a POS, or if they were in some mystical deep safe in system, because Murphy can and will make an entrance, and you can bet your bottom dollar that someone can be persuaded to hand out the PW of a POS that holds a Revenant. As I mentioned before, the sheer rarity of this ship adds some balance to it's power, much like Guardian-Vexors with their 10-drone control are balanced by the fact there's, what, two or three left in the game.

It *wouldn't* make much difference if normal supercapital rigs weren't tank rigs, but since they are, you're missing a lot of tank.
In terms of absolute rarity, the Rev *is* rare. Just because the player sent it to a camped system, assigned fighters, and stepped out for an afternoon coffee does not make it a problem.
And yes, while you can pimp up drone damage with other carriers and supercaps, the fact of the matter still remains that in order to get "uber 1337" fighters, you must remove something known as "tank" which prevents PL or whoever is your enemy from making an unannounced house-call with a steamroller. That's a balancing factor that I believe is a very powerful incentive against assisting fighters.