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[Scylla] Skynet - Removing Fighter Assist

First post First post First post
Author
Panther X
Dreadnoughtz Conclave
Requiem Eternal
#361 - 2015-02-27 22:12:55 UTC
Igor Nappi wrote:
Forgot to add, the nullbot tears in this thread are absolutely delicious.


So you assume that anyone who lives in nullsec and has a carrier is a bot? How droll. Please keep the tinfoil hat on.

Your argument is invalid because reasons.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...

Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#362 - 2015-02-27 22:22:17 UTC
Panther X wrote:
Igor Nappi wrote:
Forgot to add, the nullbot tears in this thread are absolutely delicious.


So you assume that anyone who lives in nullsec and has a carrier is a bot? How droll. Please keep the tinfoil hat on.

Your argument is invalid because reasons.

The number of fallacies his like have been committing is pretty high:
Appeal to spite: "This hurts nullbears, so I'm all for it."
Genetic fallacy: "Nullbears are arguing for it, so it must be bad."
Fallacy of composition: "Some people have been known to bot with carriers, so they're all botters."
iwasatoad
The Lost Disciple's
#363 - 2015-02-27 22:27:10 UTC
here is a real simple fix Leave every thing the way it is now and make it possible to point fighters and make fighters provide kill mails if killed...

Let's face it risk Vs reward there is no risk in sending out fighters because even if they die it does not hurt a kill board if they die.
get rid of that and now there is reward to killing fighters other than just getting DPS off the field.

Removing the ability to send fighters to players will just cause no one to use them in PVP unless large scale any more as the risk it to large for little reward.


Not to mention removing this ability only helps larger groups win every time yet again.

The numerical advantage of being able to send fighters out is only used because of pesky 3km's ships playing gate games and fast warp games to move non stop an have no risk because they can just keep moving so removing the ability only make them now just warp to a dead safe cause you to scann them down warp there only to have them to warp off once you land on grid.


That alone is the only reason to send fighters out so that you can force them to keep moving and or allow your smaller numbers attack larger numbers. because let's face it sending out 10 fighters that have crap tracking against frigs fast cruisers is less useful than putting for example a HAC on the field that will do the same damage but have a better rate of killing them. Witch will only make them warp off and just stay pointed to there next warp out. and then it goes round again scan them down land on grid they warp this change would only lead to less content as i and a lot of others will not put cap's on the field as the risk vs reward then is not there i take huge risk with very little reward even if i get the kill with a huge lock time


Simple FIX Make fighters able to be pointed and generate kill mails quite simple fix.

send 10 fighters out at 20 mill a pop that's 200 million in kill mails now on the field about equal to putting a HAC on the field but not as effective all the while forcing the target to warp around and not just play the 300km range game to be a pest all day while giving the hostile the ability to warp off land point the fighters and decide if he can take on the fighters witch would be the same as facing a HAC or keep moving on.

This would also bring up the point that if this were to be a true idea worth doing then fighters would also need the ability to point targets again risk vs reward you should not be able to point a fighter so it cannot leave but be able to shoot it with out the worry of not being able to warp off.


Simply put all you will do by removing the ability to send out fighters to fleet members is cause more scaning warping games that lead's to no content game play as when some one comes in they can just warp off again and again. Witch is how it happens now if you do not have fighters to chase them, and once more on that i know i will never put 2 billion isk on the field if the enemy is all in frigs and cruiser the lock time is to big and i would be much more effective just putting a hack or dom on the field forcing them to warp off or die and will not proceed to play the scan warp game that will never get you a kill unless they are that stupid and not looking at there overview.


But this would be some thing that would make game play more viable and it would make since so like most things in the world let's not do it let's nerff capitals even more so that no one ever uses them any more and make it point less to have one because lest face it as of right now it's the only thing they are good at for pvp as a logi fleet cost lest and rep's the same and cost a lot less as well as a hac or even a BC cost less and will give you the same result as putting a capital on the field with a lot less risk unless blobing witch is not the problem coming from the people whining
eiedu
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#364 - 2015-02-27 22:28:48 UTC
I say,

Make fighters a class of normal drones. where off-grid assignment isn't allowed, but on-grid assignment is okay.

Then there's the thing where they can warp. You could keep that, but make it so that they only warp where the carrier is warping.
Panther X
Dreadnoughtz Conclave
Requiem Eternal
#365 - 2015-02-27 22:35:13 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Panther X wrote:
Igor Nappi wrote:
Forgot to add, the nullbot tears in this thread are absolutely delicious.


So you assume that anyone who lives in nullsec and has a carrier is a bot? How droll. Please keep the tinfoil hat on.

Your argument is invalid because reasons.

The number of fallacies his like have been committing is pretty high:
Appeal to spite: "This hurts nullbears, so I'm all for it."
Genetic fallacy: "Nullbears are arguing for it, so it must be bad."
Fallacy of composition: "Some people have been known to bot with carriers, so they're all botters."



+1

See not everyone Grr's Goons.... Big smile












(Grr Goons)

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#366 - 2015-02-27 22:37:36 UTC
Great change.

The Tears Must Flow

octahexx Charante
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#367 - 2015-02-27 22:37:38 UTC
this game keeps getting nerfed,it gets duller for ever forced gameplay style,cattleprodding the player base into the next playstyle to then nerf it,the game gets smaller and more dull for every removal of personal choice,nerfing the capitals and supers that is the current trend removes endgame,everytime a doctrine shows to be effective because its the least nerfed ship it gets nerfed.
i cant put the words for it down but it makes the world of eve online smaller and less exciting,i dont want all the ships to be the same and nerfed into a childsafe yellow bumpercar with foampadding...
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#368 - 2015-02-27 22:40:00 UTC
It is funny how many people come up with "great" ideas to keep this mechanic without thinking 30 seconds about how they do not change anything in the risk department or the added risk is supereasy to circumvent.
If you want to use your carriers get them on grid. It is not like they were actually expensive, fragile or defenseless.

Do carriers need a little extra for their nontriage role? Probably, but riskfree-dps-projection is not it.
Dedbforucme
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#369 - 2015-02-27 22:41:09 UTC
Getting rid of Skynet is absurd and makes using super capitals ships (IE Nyx, Aeon, Wyvern, Hel) pointless to fly and you are just sitting an expensive paper weights because they are 20+ billion isk or 550 plus dollars to do nothing with and not worth training towards. Also by getting rid of the ability to have fighters warp just makes carriers (IE: Nidhoggur, Thanatos, Chimera, Archon) not worth using in PVE because every time you have it in a site and a neutral or hostile comes into system chances are you are leaving behind 250-300 mil worth of fighters behind to not lose your 3-4 bil carrier.

Instead of getting rid Skynet make it only usable in systems your corp and/or alliance has sov. , or make them only assignable to battleship classes and above if the issue is having them assigned to frigates and cruisers, because making these changes essentially guts all capital ship pilots and their time spent training a waste of time when they could have been training to fly a perfect marauder or something.
RogueHunteer
Doomheim
#370 - 2015-02-27 22:50:37 UTC
CSM said to happen since all nerfs are coming, just remove all capitals and refund the SP. problem solve. no one wants to play with all nerfs roling out...
Balani
ELVE Industries
Evictus.
#371 - 2015-02-27 22:52:41 UTC
remove scaps and remove Fighters

remap all cap + fighter skills _P



the game is mutating to a pure pvp sandbox where pve has no room.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#372 - 2015-02-27 22:58:03 UTC
RogueHunteer wrote:
CSM said to happen since all nerfs are coming, just remove all capitals and refund the SP. problem solve. no one wants to play with all nerfs roling out...


Not everyone plays flavour of the month, I pretty much got into the game because it was a "sandbox" and I like capitals (and 1-2 other things) a lot of what draws other people to the game leaves me unaffected i.e. flying around in an ishtar or bomber I get no enjoyment from at all.
Raz Destructor
Asymmetrical Warfare
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#373 - 2015-02-27 23:03:15 UTC
Make a Drone Delegation Module that acts like the triage, but allows you to use fighters while in the mode. And have it disable movement like the triage so you can get bumped right out the other side of a POS bubble before you come out of the mode. The idea is to make it riskier, not take away the potential reward of killing one. You don't want to alienate everybody who has a carrier and does Skynetting because they never get to use their carrier otherwise. Maybe you should add some features that make the carrier more fun to use and lose instead of just cutting existing features because it is faster, easier, and cheaper.
RogueHunteer
Doomheim
#374 - 2015-02-27 23:06:42 UTC
Rroff wrote:
RogueHunteer wrote:
CSM said to happen since all nerfs are coming, just remove all capitals and refund the SP. problem solve. no one wants to play with all nerfs roling out...


Not everyone plays flavour of the month, I pretty much got into the game because it was a "sandbox" and I like capitals (and 1-2 other things) a lot of what draws other people to the game leaves me unaffected i.e. flying around in an ishtar or bomber I get no enjoyment from at all.



the way ccp is going about nerfing all capitals to the ground and do nothing to correct the problem is clearly better to remove them all. Don't get me wrong i love capital ships, but if nerfs keep rolling out no point. They need to hit it all at once instead of re-blanceing all other ships. It's time it looks at 6 years later. I don't see why we can't sit down brain storm some ideas on roles for current. At this time i do ccp so open it's doors too feed back on capitals. make a TOPIC and let the feedback role in it and see were it can go.
Bertka Gaterau
The Suicide Kings
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#375 - 2015-02-27 23:09:20 UTC
Here is something to think about, what if we allow the assignment of fighters but make it dependent on the available drone bandwidth of the ship being assigned.


As an example: a domi with 125mbit drone bandwidth. If it has 5 sentries or heavies of its own out, then you cannot assign it any fighters. If it has no drones out, then a full complement of 5 fighters can be assigned.

Now if the domi has 5 fighters assigned and decides that it wants to deploy 5 lights to go after frigs, then 1 fighter warps off and goes back to the carrier.

Is this perfect, no. Is it interesting, I think so. Could be a way to nerf skynet without killing it completely, and this could also be extended to all drone assigning which would require every person in the fleet to handle their own drones (that was nerfed previously).

As a counter to the person who doesnt want to leave fighters on field when warping a carrier off due to neutral while ratting.
Warp to the site at range, align to a warp out point, stop your carrier, drop sentries. If you need to leave in a hurry, pull your drones, tell your carrier to warp to your pos or safe spot or whatever, pulse your mwd once. You should be able to get out before you get caught.
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#376 - 2015-02-27 23:11:41 UTC
For fighter assist, rather than removing as whole, maybe set it only to work for specific class of ships? Like only battlecruiser ships and above? And I'd like to keep the fighters being able to warp.
Vic Jefferson
ElitistOps
WE FORM V0LTA
#377 - 2015-02-27 23:12:16 UTC
Dedbforucme wrote:
Getting rid of Skynet is absurd and makes using super capitals ships (IE Nyx, Aeon, Wyvern, Hel) pointless to fly and you are just sitting an expensive paper weights because they are 20+ billion isk or 550 plus dollars to do nothing with and not worth training towards. Also by getting rid of the ability to have fighters warp just makes carriers (IE: Nidhoggur, Thanatos, Chimera, Archon) not worth using in PVE because every time you have it in a site and a neutral or hostile comes into system chances are you are leaving behind 250-300 mil worth of fighters behind to not lose your 3-4 bil carrier.

Instead of getting rid Skynet make it only usable in systems your corp and/or alliance has sov. , or make them only assignable to battleship classes and above if the issue is having them assigned to frigates and cruisers, because making these changes essentially guts all capital ship pilots and their time spent training a waste of time when they could have been training to fly a perfect marauder or something.



I am a capital pilot, and I do not feel these changes ruin my experience. Carriers are still extremely powerful.

Rather they have the potential to make it a more exciting game - man up and put some assets on the field, you might just have some fun with them.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Hicksimus
Torgue
#378 - 2015-02-27 23:13:11 UTC
I like that bridging subcap fleets is super safe and effective but instead we're here attacking something that is much more of a niche. Good job CCP!

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.

Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#379 - 2015-02-27 23:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Primary This Rifter
Vic Jefferson wrote:
I am a capital pilot, and I do not feel these changes ruin my experience. Carriers are still extremely powerful.

Rather they have the potential to make it a more exciting game - man up and put some assets on the field, you might just have some fun with them.

People who were already doing that will still do it.
People who weren't doing it aren't going to start just because you took away fighter assist.

In any case, I'll reiterate. I'm fine with removing fighter assist, but once that's removed there seems to be no reason whatsoever to remove fighter warping.
Rattman
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#380 - 2015-02-27 23:25:43 UTC
Make them use bandwidth from what they are assigned to.

Dont remove the capabilities