Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Is it possible to have the best of both world with Combat Recon being front line ewar ship having HAC Resist and Force Recon being the sneaky ship with covop cloak (possibly with Dscan immunity in addition to that, though it's a bit redundant).

I decided to look up your post on this, since I'm curious what you were going on about. Turns out all of your issues are redundant with T3/cloaky ships already in the game...



As for the 'gud fites' crowd, there is no context in which the new d-scan immune combat recons will be any different than an existing cloaky recon, or cloaky T3. You still need to think before you warp somewhere in an expensive ship. So, no change there.


Buffing things that are underused instead of nerfing things that are overused means everyone finds their assumptions about their ships shifting over time. Cap warfare, for example, now is less relevant because of the introduction of ASB and AAR modules. You deal with it or you burn.

You felt safe in the past, warping around alone in something expensive, or worrying someone would dishonor a 1-v-1, because an assailant spent 700M isk on their ship? Well, now you have to consider assailants who spent 350M isk as well. This is not some revolutionary change that can't be overcome with a shade more discipline on your behalf.


None of my chars have participated in a gate camp since 2010, but if you are comforted by being sentimental, go for it.


O. Faeces

... except the problem got bigger (more ships can do this), the ships involved in setting traps got cheaper (as you pointed out yourself), there's no risk in SP loss involved now, and there's another arbitrary exception to fundamental game rules (wasn't eve meant to become more streamlined and easier to understand?).

So yes, I'd say there is a pretty big change here. A lot of people are worried that their style of play will become harder and be less fun, and I can see why.

So then use T3 recons for fleet work and use Combat recons for small gang.

See, Merry Bobmas. .
Now, when Hyperion expansion was about to be launched, I and a lot of other guys complained a lot. . In the end, the expansion was good. When Phoebe was about to be launched, it was tears all over nullsex space. In the end, it was a refreshing expansion. (Plus Bob bathed in nullbears tears lol).
Now it's Proteus and we see couple bittervets complaining. Guess what. If it were a real feedback from all players, Rise would surely take it seriously. But only a couple lazy lowseccers, naah. Do you see any snuffbox here, nope. Do you see any CSM here, nope. Do you see any wspace representative here, nope? (Appart from a few bad bears)
so yeah Rise, you're in the right direction.

The stated goal for the recon was to make it a more viable option over t3's.

Without the resists it is simply not going to fill that goal.

Why use DSCAN immunity when I can use a cloaky proteus?

Why use a fleet recon when t3's are 10x better?

The only way to achieve your goal at this point CCP is to give t3's a big enough nerf that they're not cost effective.

HOWEVER: then at that point why not use T1 cruisers instead of either?

Give t2 resists to recons! No other change needed to "fix" Recons (oh, except plz rollback the kinetic only on Rook for the love of Bob, nerf the overall DPS a tiny bit if you want [or dont] but let us choose damage types! Tactics shouldn't be limited by prejudiced hull bonuses CCP Missile Haters)

CCP you never really stated a goal for DSCAN immunity that cloaks can't fill, but you stated a legitimate goal that everyone agreed on with resists that make recons a fleet option over t3's.

You need to deliver on your real goals. Have that integrity please. 90% of posts since your update want you to go back to t2 resists and 80% of those would rather have resists than DSCAN immunity if that's the choice.

Are you going to listen? Or not?

If you are a wspace resident you should have hole control (unless you're in a C1) .
If you live in a C2 it means two Orca passes close your connections. Frig holes can be bubbled and watched by cloaky scouts.
Higgs rig makes it easy to close bigger connections.
I pve in wspace and fail to see how dscan immunity will make it riskier, unless some no-life shoots for logofski traps in which case he would kill you anyway.
Also before Dscan immunity you can still die ( and we do) if the aggressor comes from a connection more than 14.3 AU because a cloaky prot will jump into system, cloaks and warps to you unseen and approach, bump and lock, pop. So I'd say covops cloak is still more dangerous because only dscan immunity won't keep an agressor invisible when he enters grid with you. And you'd still see and hear him jumping into system if you reasonably have a scout in that pesky connection.
Get gud.

im disapointed about this d-scan invul. it so OP

Give dscan immunity to force recons. Give Combat recons full resist set.

Nice changes. +1 from me. Just to clarify since I haven't use recons before, does that mean that the covert ops recons already have D-scan immunity when cloaked and uncloaked?