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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

First post First post First post
Author
Suitonia
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#621 - 2014-12-19 04:25:55 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Syzygium wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Syzygium wrote:
or to have a Probing Alt all the time which is simpy annoying and fun-killing..


Stop being so anti social, even jerks like us have managed to find people that like scanning, you dont need an alt, you need a new friend, one who likes to probe.

So what you say it that SoloPvP is bullshit at all and should be ignored or at least forced to dualbox all the time and all other forms of PvP should simply bring MORE PEOPLE (what is the final solution to all problems in EvE, just bring MORE...)? Yeah that sounds great.

Also a great idea to bring someone who "likes to scan". Yeah. We roam 50 jumps and the guy needs 50times to drop Combat Probes to make sure we don't run into a faggotrytrap with our 3 cruisers. That makes so much sense. I think this "friend" will quit EvE on the third day.


Thats not what I said at all, but good job winding yourself up like a gigantic baby over it.

Solo PVP without a prober or alts right now is already full of traps and ambushes, for the average solo pvp guy, literally nothing will change, his day seeing a lachesis drop on grid will literally be no different than when an arazu decloaks near him.

He will have literally the exact same amount of time to react, because in situation A, you can't see the pilgrim until he commits, and decloaks, he's got a 4-5 second delay in his actions, the Lachesis, you can't see until he commits, and he'll have about 4-5 seconds of warp deceleration PLUS targeting time that delay his actions.


So lets not drag the solo PVP guy on this, post change his day isn't any worse than it was before. If anything he's probably rolling around in a RLML Rapier owning Garmurs.

Second, if you were just running 3 cruisers with no alts theres a pretty good chance you were going to run into a 'faggotytrap'. Second if you're really roaming in 3 guys and you can see 10 dudes in local but dont show ships on scan your spidey sense should already be going off, and if not, one of your traps is probably waiting to kill you.

Sorry, all the crap you're getting spun up about is something entirely made up in your own head


This is horrible for solo PvPers Grath. Splitting up targets using celestials+directional scanner will be much harder.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#622 - 2014-12-19 04:29:19 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
why the literal **** isnt the curse getting a 5th low? do you still want shield tanking curses? i mean thats totaly un amarr.


I know right! Thats like minmatar having to armor tank a muninn... oh? That exists.. probably deal with it like minny pilots do. You at least have wtfpwn neuts going for you.

Well look on the brightside, at least your kin and explo resists will be really high.

deal with what? how minni pilots can change tanks on a whim and amarr cant? ok no thanks i dont want a shield curse i want a god dam armor curse. 4 lows on a punisher is one thing but on a ******* CRUISER designed to be armor tanked is another. especially when your always forced to have a stupid reactor control on it.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#623 - 2014-12-19 04:33:13 UTC
Will we ever have some stable ship design ? It's confusing to change slots/bonuses every 3 months.

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"

Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#624 - 2014-12-19 04:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciba Lexlulu
Unusual changes. Will force many people to adapt (or quit).. Dscan has been too powerful imho. This will add a level of unpredictability to the game play.

To counter some of the issues raise and to balance combat recon unique immunity, may be their scan res can be nerfed abit. Which effectively allow a fast cruiser to align and warp out if combat recon drop on top of them.

Edit. Forgot to mention, overall i like the changes to Recon.. GJ Rise!
Syzygium
ISK Unlimited
#625 - 2014-12-19 04:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Syzygium
Grath Telkin wrote:
Syzygium wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Syzygium wrote:
or to have a Probing Alt all the time which is simpy annoying and fun-killing..


Stop being so anti social, even jerks like us have managed to find people that like scanning, you dont need an alt, you need a new friend, one who likes to probe.

So what you say it that SoloPvP is bullshit at all and should be ignored or at least forced to dualbox all the time and all other forms of PvP should simply bring MORE PEOPLE (what is the final solution to all problems in EvE, just bring MORE...)? Yeah that sounds great.

Also a great idea to bring someone who "likes to scan". Yeah. We roam 50 jumps and the guy needs 50times to drop Combat Probes to make sure we don't run into a faggotrytrap with our 3 cruisers. That makes so much sense. I think this "friend" will quit EvE on the third day.


Thats not what I said at all, but good job winding yourself up like a gigantic baby over it.

Solo PVP without a proper or alts right now is already full of traps and ambushes, for the average solo pvp guy, literally nothing will change, his day seeing a lachesis drop on grid will literally be no different than when an arazu decloaks near him.

He will have literally the exact same amount of time to react, because in situation A, you can't see the pilgrim until he commits, and decloaks, he's got a 4-5 second delay in his actions, the Lachesis, you can't see until he commits, and he'll have about 4-5 seconds of warp deceleration PLUS targeting time that delay his actions.


So lets not drag the solo PVP guy on this, post change his day isn't any worse than it was before. If anything he's probably rolling around in a RLML Rapier owning Garmurs.

Second, if you were just running 3 cruisers with no alts theres a pretty good chance you were going to run into a 'faggotytrap'. Second if you're really roaming in 3 guys and you can see 10 dudes in local but dont show ships on scan your spidey sense should already be going off, and if not, one of your traps is probably waiting to kill you.

Sorry, all the crap you're getting spun up about is something entirely made up in your own head

Sorry but you obviously have no idea about living and roaming in lowsec. You simply navigate fast and your decisions to warp to or stay in a location, be it an FW plex, belt or the star entirely depend on what Dscan tells you. People in local give little to no hints who is in space because lowsec is full of stations where half of the people idle all the time. You have plenty of PI Chars, Cloakhaulers or Soloplexers that are in no way a target or a threat. No one goes docking in 5 stations to check who is docked before accepting a fight or not.

Also if you do not recognize the difference between a few recons decloaking next to you which gives you around 10 seconds to either warp out or maximize range and speed before they have a successful lock and landing on a grid with some already waiting recons (sensorbooster/remotesensorbooster anyone?) that have locked you 1 second after you have landed on grid, then you might want to watch a few great solo PvP videos and look how you can deal with decloaking recons in a fast ship. What you cannot do when you land and the sensorboosted recon is already waiting for you.

Another point was already made: fighting a numerical larger force makes splitting them by multiple warps and kiting a significant part of the fight. You simply need to see who is following you and who stays, who waits at another location and who is not. The position of the enemies Recon(s) is the KEY to decide where to finally accept the fight or not. And if you cannot reliable tell that any more, either a lot of fights will no longer be accepted.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#626 - 2014-12-19 04:47:00 UTC
Time to buy rooks!
Cale Agittain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#627 - 2014-12-19 04:56:39 UTC
I think this d-scan immunity nonsense is a mistake.

According to the OP, the reasoning behind this change is to:
"Give Combat Recons something to make them stand out as a unique and interesting set of ships"

Rather than dscan immunity, let's discuss some other ways to make combat recons unique. Say, a cpu reduction bonus for expanded probe launchers?
Syzygium
ISK Unlimited
#628 - 2014-12-19 05:12:44 UTC
Well, they could simply give Recons an improved DScan Range themselves, maybe +20% per Level. So these Recons an spot enemies earlier or watch over locations while outside scanning range from these locations (unless for other Recons). They would be great for scouting or warning purposes along with their powerful EWar Support role without making them the ideal traptool for farming soloplayers.
Tira Janau
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#629 - 2014-12-19 05:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tira Janau
Cale Agittain wrote:
I think this d-scan immunity nonsense is a mistake.

According to the OP, the reasoning behind this change is to:
"Give Combat Recons something to make them stand out as a unique and interesting set of ships"

Rather than dscan immunity, let's discuss some other ways to make combat recons unique. Say, a cpu reduction bonus for expanded probe launchers?


Ridiculous EWAR power and sizeable tank/dps I think is unique enough. (In contrast to force recons cov ops cloak and less tank/dps)

Syzygium wrote:
Well, they could simply give Recons an improved DScan Range themselves, maybe +20% per Level. So these Recons an spot enemies earlier or watch over locations while outside scanning range from these locations (unless for other Recons). They would be great for scouting or warning purposes along with their powerful EWar Support role without making them the ideal traptool for farming soloplayers.


I think the dscan thing is a hardware/software limit thing (i've heard that explanation given, so I cant verify it), but if doable would be a very nice thing. Especially if paired with a combat probe cpu reduction, would be a nice little niche that wasn't in the realm of crazy.
Kontraband Venning
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Federation Uprising
#630 - 2014-12-19 05:15:05 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Kontraband Venning wrote:
I don't normally post or get too involved in the rage over changes but as a FW small gang pilot I just couldnt stay quiet. This change will be terrible in the fw zone.

Small gang/solo rules for fw space after this change.

Never fly anything larger then what fits in a small. Otherwise you will be jumped.
Never warp into a medium with others in system.
Never sit in a medium.
Never sit outside of a plex.
Move out.





Or bring combat probes.


Its FW. They dont need probes to find your plex and warp in on you. So you have zero warning.

Lots of FW is Small ships. Gimping your fit to fit probes just so you can check every location to make sure your not going to get blapped. You would literally spend 90% of your play time using probes.
Justin Zaine
#631 - 2014-12-19 05:16:55 UTC
If this is how they rebalance Recons...I can't wait to see what they think up for T3's.

That must be some good stuff being passed around the office.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.

Ghaustyl Kathix
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#632 - 2014-12-19 05:36:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghaustyl Kathix
Grath Telkin wrote:
Theres no such thing as a brick tanked recon. They literally dont exist, they're all thin as hell.
They're getting buffed. The resist profile should give a Curse, for example, an extra 20k EHP with fleet boosts. If you're solo or in a small gang, you probably don't have enough time to pop it before his friends join in.

Quote:
You just grouped two of the smaller alliances in eve with one of the largest.
I said massive and notable. I probably should've said "or" instead of "and" (it's late). But my point is everybody who loves this change are all in the beefiest alliances who don't have any trouble bringing more people to a fight.

Yeah, you do need scan probes to get to combat signatures, for example. But you can scan them, bookmark them, then wait for someone to start running the site before you go in. And as was brought up before, at least the cloaky versions have to decloak when they go through an acceleration gate, and have a period of time after decloaking where they can't lock on to anything.

If this change gets in, I'm probably going to be one of those people hunting site-runners with a Curse or a Huginn, but I think it's way too powerful for what it is.
Grath Telkin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#633 - 2014-12-19 05:51:39 UTC
Syzygium wrote:
\
Also if you do not recognize the difference between a few recons decloaking next to you which gives you around 10 seconds to either warp out or maximize range and speed before they have a successful lock and landing on a grid with some already waiting recons (sensorbooster/remotesensorbooster anyone?) that have locked you 1 second after you have landed on grid, then you might want to watch a few great solo PvP videos and look how you can deal with decloaking recons in a fast ship. What you cannot do when you land and the sensorboosted recon is already waiting for you.
.


So you're saying as a good solo PVP guy you'd see six or seven people in local but pick nothing up on Dscan and you'd still warp to the out gate?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#634 - 2014-12-19 05:53:15 UTC
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
, and have a period of time after decloaking where they can't lock on to anything..


Its 5 seconds. If you were guessing man, what number would you lay on the amount of time it takes a cruiser to decelerate from warp and then lock a target?


Would you say its more or less than 5 seconds?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#635 - 2014-12-19 05:54:04 UTC
instead of the dcsan bonus (not saying i dont like it) but could be give the combat recons a bonus to cpu use on expanded probe launchers similar to the confessor? No scanning bonuses but the ability to fit it without gimping the tank.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#636 - 2014-12-19 05:57:10 UTC
what if recon ships could see other recon ships on dscan

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Suzuma
Makiriemi Industries
#637 - 2014-12-19 05:57:38 UTC
Richard Justice wrote:
CCP Rise, can we have the neut amount bonus for the Pilgrim back instead or range please? Pilgrim operates in web range typically and so range is not really that much of a factor where as the amount of energy neuted is more so of an issue.

-D. Justice


have you considered the possibility that its time for the Pilgrim to change its brawling role?

maybe? just maybe?

(hint: buffs to base speed, align time, capacitor)

CEO

Makiriemi Industries

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#638 - 2014-12-19 05:59:22 UTC
Samuel Wess wrote:
Will we ever have some stable ship design ? It's confusing to change slots/bonuses every 3 months.

Somebody hold me back. Evil
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#639 - 2014-12-19 06:11:03 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
  • Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners
  • Geeeeez... I'm by no means an authority, but this seems like an overly powerful ability.

    A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

    Syzygium
    ISK Unlimited
    #640 - 2014-12-19 06:12:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Syzygium
    Grath Telkin wrote:
    So you're saying as a good solo PVP guy you'd see six or seven people in local but pick nothing up on Dscan and you'd still warp to the out gate?

    lol. You obviously have never lived in LowSec. Six or Seven People in Local means *nothing* here, thats the usual case in like 95% of the factionwar systems and is in no way an indicator for a waiting gang.

    And to your question: where to warp is completely dependent on system size, sec/corpstatus of the other locals and ship flown. Usually you warp to some celestials or bookmark to check activity via Dscan and then decide to look for an engagement or to leave. These cloaky-Recons are in most cases no danger, because you are long in warp or miles and miles away from them when they decloak and try to lock you.

    Unfortunately with Dscan Immune ships, that brings nothing any more because the information that there is a Vexor in the Plex is useless if you cant know if that is a Vexor or a Vexor and a Huginn and a Rook and a Lachesis before you are actually there. And no, even "warp to 100" or such stuff does not safe you when they have simply put remotesensorboosted Lach+Huginn at 50. You are immobile 2 seconds after you land and thats "game over". And "Bounce Bookmarks" do not work for the random spawning FW Plexes, nor is it in any way possible to have a few thousand Bookmarks for every belt, star, gate or planet in Lowsec. You would spend more time making Bookmarks just to see the Grid from 300km off than actually playing the game.