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[Rhea] Pulse Lasers and Scorch

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afkboss
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2014-11-28 01:44:43 UTC
Can you please look at the damage the Revelation does.

When i'm in siege beside a Naglfar I have to fit 5 cap modules to stay at jump cap and that is doing less DPS and non selectable damage.
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#62 - 2014-11-28 01:46:19 UTC
why are people acting like losing a whole 2% of optimal range on pulses with scorch is something to get worked up about

it is 2%

if it bothers you that much get a 3% optimal range hardwiring or something, idk
Bullet Therapist
FT Cold Corporation
#63 - 2014-11-28 01:50:08 UTC
Skyler Hawk wrote:
why are people acting like losing a whole 2% of optimal range on pulses with scorch is something to get worked up about

it is 2%

if it bothers you that much get a 3% optimal range hardwiring or something, idk


I don't think that everyone here is really worked up over the changes to pulses and scorch itself, it's just that a few of us feel like there are probably more important things to balance right now.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#64 - 2014-11-28 02:00:34 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
So that's a thing that CCP is doing... any word on buffing medium autocannons already? I want to fly Minmatar, it's been ages! I had to switch over to mostly Caldari since even missiles are more viable than the Vagabond or a Muninn.

DR BiCarbonate wrote:
Cool, a pretty much useless nerf. Now Fix medium autocannons. we've been living with the tracking enhancer nerf for quite some time now.


And, to be clear on this point, the tracking enhancer nerf has completely ****** over autocannons. I fit a Cynabal with artillery. Felt dirty afterward.

Selectable damage type is rarely used to any effect, since if you're changing your ammo in the middle of a fight to hit a resist hole you're probably doing it wrong since there's a 10 second delay where you're doing no damage whatsoever, and you'd be better off with whatever ammo was already loaded.

Lady Rohk wrote:

So now a rev with 3x tracking computers (cause what else are you gonna fit the mids with) now hits 40km optimal and 86km total range?


Um... two cap boosters? Like everyone else?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#65 - 2014-11-28 02:17:38 UTC
Scorch seems overpowered because the other crystals suck and don't offer much advantages over our purple overlord. Why not give the other ammo some unique bonus like +x% tracking. Idk but it's usually never a good thing to nerf one thing because others in that group are lacking. In other words raise the performance of other crystals instead of hitting scorch with the nerf bat.

Oderint Dum Metuant
Naoru Kozan
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-11-28 02:47:10 UTC
Don't suppose you guys could take a quick look at Medium Autocannons? They are kind of bad atm.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#67 - 2014-11-28 02:48:46 UTC
Zomgnomnom wrote:
Swing and a miss....

How about making the other Crystals worth using, adjusting tracking, or cap usage or yah know, any of the actual problems with pulse lasers?

What I would really like to see is a 50% tracking buff to close range t2 ammo like conflag and void.
Terraniel Aurelius
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-11-28 03:15:25 UTC
Current T1 laser crystals can be used for 2 things in pulse lasers:

Multifrequency - damage
Everything else - rainbow light show

Scorch is used more relative to everything else because everything else is useless. Does it need a nerf? Only if you want us to use it as much as we use ultraviolet. Which is 0. Buff the rest of the t1 crystal range's damage or this is just a nerf to an already underutilized weapon system.
MirrorGod
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2014-11-28 03:31:07 UTC
Consider that perhaps 4 sets of crystals is enough, (hell sometimes Imperial Standard and Standard crystals are needed to, 1/m3 per unit stacks up fast)

2% is the most scorch needs to be nerfed by. Laserboats are one thing that are fairly well balanced right now. Look at the ishtar swarms; that's the HAC you're looking for m8.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6070/6122338654_85e9bbfca9_z.jpg
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#70 - 2014-11-28 05:07:43 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
5% and 2%? that's really underwhelming. do bigger things please. you should be tring to make scorch/null/barrage into being like javelin or something, and making the guns usable with proper ammos. t2 ammo should be a niche thing imo.


javelin is pretty useless ammo as are all the T2 short range ammo on long range guns..


no, javelin is a nice example of T2 ammo done well. it's not a game-breaking replacement like scorch or null, it's an occasionally useful thing you carry around for when you really need more tracking.


And that's why nobody uses it.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#71 - 2014-11-28 05:12:33 UTC
As a proponent of tweaking with a jeweller's screwdriver rather than a sledgehammer, i will be interested to see how this pans out. A nice little almpst-nothing tweak to scorch, while subtly boosting all the other crystals.

At some point nerfing Scorch range would result in Scorch never being used. There needs to be some value in using scorch, though with enough buffing to other crystals it should end up being the case that faction crystals end up being almost as good for less ISK.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Luscius Uta
#72 - 2014-11-28 07:28:51 UTC
Not liking the changes since Conflagration is still bad, mostly due to its tracking penalty.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2014-11-28 07:38:21 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

We're making some tweaks to Pulse Lasers of all sizes in Rhea, as well as Scorch ammo.




Thx fo post CCP Fozzie, but don't u Guys feel that lasers need a little more love? This is hardly a nerf to scorch and hardly a buff to non-scorch lasers. Pulse lasers are a medium range weapon, but the the medium range combat is a rare sight in EVE nowdays.

Ps. the -10 % cap use bonus and lasers cap usage shoud be adressed ASAP - that would simplify future update of laser boats and their hull bonuses...
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2014-11-28 09:44:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

We're making some tweaks to Pulse Lasers of all sizes in Rhea, as well as Scorch ammo.

At the moment Pulse Lasers are quite reliant on T2 Scorch ammo to be viable and powerful. The main goal of these changes is to reduce the reliance on Scorch for Pulse Lasers, making other ammo types a bit more useful. Secondary goals are improving the balance between different tiers of Pulse Lasers and improving the quality of Capital Pulse Lasers a bit.

The basics of the change are:
  • The base optimal range of all Pulse Lasers is being increased by 5%.
  • The falloff range of all Pulse Lasers is being increased.
  • The optimal range bonus provided by Scorch ammo is being reduced from 50% to 40%.

The result is that optimal range for Pulses without Scorch will be increasing 5%, and optimal range for Pulses with Scorch will be decreasing by 2%. The percentage increase in falloff is different between the different sizes of Pulses, which helps even out the power levels of the different Pulse laser tiers slightly.

Falloff increase per Pulse type is:
Small Focused Pulses, Heavy Pulses, Mega Pulses: +25%
Dual Light Pulses, Focused Medium Pulses, Dual Heavy Pulses: +33.3%
Gatling Pulses, Giga Pulses: +100%

These changes are on SISI for your testing pleasure, feel free to give them a try and let us know what you think!



Sorry Fozie but Yet again you guys are homogenizing the weapons. Now lasers lose one of their disadvantages.. same as blasters that lost their every short range. Will you be fair and take the issue of AC having effective zero RANGE?

Or you make all weapons effectively the same, or stop that and keep them different very different boostign them in their STRONG points when needed.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2014-11-28 09:45:47 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
Not liking the changes since Conflagration is still bad, mostly due to its tracking penalty.



It is the same for all short range t2 ammos. Yet they are very useful when you are fighting ships larger than you.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2014-11-28 09:50:27 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Luscius Uta wrote:
Not liking the changes since Conflagration is still bad, mostly due to its tracking penalty.



It is the same for all short range t2 ammos. Yet they are very useful when you are fighting ships larger than you.



And you know webs & stuff ;)
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#77 - 2014-11-28 11:02:20 UTC
conflagration is one of the most powerful t2 ammos, since you barely have to think, and it has the prettiest colour.
Akemon Numon
Doomheim
#78 - 2014-11-28 11:23:59 UTC
Zomgnomnom wrote:
Swing and a miss....

How about making the other Crystals worth using, adjusting tracking, or cap usage or yah know, any of the actual problems with pulse lasers?


^ Yes this.
Luscius Uta
#79 - 2014-11-28 11:48:23 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Luscius Uta wrote:
Not liking the changes since Conflagration is still bad, mostly due to its tracking penalty.



It is the same for all short range t2 ammos. Yet they are very useful when you are fighting ships larger than you.



I know that Hail and Void also have a 25% tracking penalty, thank you very much Smile
But pulse lasers also have much worse tracking than blasters and autocannons, so adding another tracking penalty on top of that is a bit too much I think. Also I reckon it's one of the reasons why nobody uses Punishers for frig PvP anymore Cry

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2014-11-28 14:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Qvar Dar'Zanar
Nvm