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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Prototype: Dojos

First post First post First post
Author
Sierra Payne
Deepsafe Orphanage Ltd.
Spades Alliance
#101 - 2014-09-25 12:39:16 UTC
Randolph Sykes wrote:
Sierra Payne wrote:
Please elaborate.

What do you need to be elaborated? The lack of artificial boundaries is what makes EVE a sandbox game, its USP. And this is a clearest example of such artificial boundaries. Deployment of such a feature on TQ is going to kill a lot of pvp-related things. You are going to struggle finding a fight anywhere other than these dojos. Why? If I want to find a fight now - I need to roam around. I need to know where to find targets. I need to know how to get a fight - to catch a prey or to make myself look like a prey. There is a risk to end up in a camp, to be overwhelmed, to be jammed by a sudden Falcon - and this is what makes EVE pvp awesome. But a lot of people would prefer dojos to the sandbox pvp, because it's much easier.


I see a lot of assumptions and all I think is that they can be debunked quite quickly.

Quote:
You are going to struggle finding a fight anywhere other than these dojos


People already struggle finding good battles right now due to the enormous size and player distribution. It's either fighting against nullbears, WH people or the few central FW systems with link alts. Giving them an arena to PVP doesn't make any difference, especially not when you keep in mind that the size of EVE as a whole is too large to support the playerbase equally.

Quote:
Why? If I want to find a fight now - I need to roam around. I need to know where to find targets. I need to know how to get a fight - to catch a prey or to make myself look like a prey.


And that still remains outside of the Dojo. You still have to find targets but rather than having people bail from PVP because of the sad state it's in with link-alts being required to remotely get any competitive in FW space, we now have a way to prepare them for solo battles to get their feet wet before losing tons of ships with minimal improvement because they get outperformed by veterans. We literally would have a way to help new players get more experienced without instantly having that dread over their heads that they won't make a dent anyways.

Quote:
But a lot of people would prefer dojos to the sandbox pvp, because it's much easier

I do not always have the time to go on a three hour roam with possibly 3-4 targets that are going to be fightable.
Sure, I could do other things then but this is the issue that relates to the immense spread of players across the server. We're not having enough players per system to get an abundance of targets, in a relatively fair battle.

I know that the excitement of a roam is still there, but what happens when your Dojo offers no incentives (as said before)? It only allows tournaments and/or new players/duelling players to practice their stuff. Yup, I could go to SiSi but seeing that server is a test server (and thus not guaranteed to be stable for any tournament effort) along with toons not properly being added in time to SiSi, this may be a potential solution.

One note: It feels as if you force people on three hour roams, when they may have one hour to play. That's like being in SOV Null, having time for 1-2 sites and then being yelled at because you're not on a CTA that lasts 4-6 hours. It's ridiculous.
Eshnala
TURN LEFT
HYDRA RELOADED
#102 - 2014-09-25 12:39:34 UTC
Just make the dojo destructable, including everything thats in there. Then you have the option to interfere with it.
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
#103 - 2014-09-25 12:43:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jackie Fisher
Will the winners of Dojo fights get bonus skill points and State Issue Ravens as reward for their victory?

Fear God and Thread Nought

GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics
#104 - 2014-09-25 12:43:55 UTC
yah new toys!
Randolph Sykes
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-09-25 12:54:25 UTC
Sierra Payne wrote:

People already struggle finding good battles right now due to the enormous size and player distribution.

It doesn't justify an attempt to make things worse than they already are.

Sierra Payne wrote:

And that still remains outside of the Dojo.

You missed the whole point. Dojos are going to completely substitute the pvp environment for many players, not to be an addition.

Tell me: would you continue doing as many roamings as you do now to get pvp in this game should dojos become a thing on TQ?

Sierra Payne wrote:

I do not always have the time to go on a three hour roam with possibly 3-4 targets that are going to be fightable.

If you need three hours to find 3-4 fightable targets - you are doing it wrong. You need to improve. This is the difference between a good and a very good player. I don't consider myself a very good player fyi, but I see a healthy challenge in becoming better at finding targets. But throw some dojos on TQ - and there is no need to improve anymore. This kills competition, not enhances it.
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#106 - 2014-09-25 12:58:19 UTC
Folks can use "/build:828481" instead of "/server:Duality" in the launcher shortcut to patch. Directions should work from that point forward.

Hopefully the stated directions will start working later, but for now that'll workaround.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online

Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad
WE FORM V0LTA
#107 - 2014-09-25 12:58:22 UTC
Oh, i thought you were gone.

Ever planning to backport LoL matchmaking into eve Big smile?
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-09-25 12:59:09 UTC
Be very careful about making very sure that this can't be used to hide links, supers, an ess, sov structures, or anything else~important~. Or even a ship that couldn't hide without this. Unprobeable deadspace sounds very very dangerous. I also want to watch the matches!

I'm very much okay with something that controls fights between two consenting adults for the sole purpose of 1v1 fights in the missionary position
Sierra Payne
Deepsafe Orphanage Ltd.
Spades Alliance
#109 - 2014-09-25 13:01:12 UTC
Randolph Sykes wrote:
Sierra Payne wrote:

I do not always have the time to go on a three hour roam with possibly 3-4 targets that are going to be fightable.

If you need three hours to find 3-4 fightable targets - you are doing it wrong. You need to improve. This is the difference between a good and a very good player. I don't consider myself a very good player fyi, but I see a healthy challenge in becoming better at finding targets. But throw some dojos on TQ - and there is no need to improve anymore. This kills competition, not enhances it.


So here I am, going out for a roam in FW space. I do not have a link-alt available to get boosts so about 75% of the fights are badly in the opponent's favor. So I am sitting there with skills that need some work, fighting someone who has a massive advantage and you then tell me it's my fault I can't find fightable targets without just throwing ISK at it and pray?

It's a problem that puts a lot of new players off.
l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#110 - 2014-09-25 13:03:09 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Be very careful about making very sure that this can't be used to hide links, supers, an ess, sov structures, or anything else~important~. Or even a ship that couldn't hide without this. Unprobeable deadspace sounds very very dangerous. I also want to watch the matches!

You can already do that now. (If there is some kind of deadspace in the system)

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Dreekus
Pls Be Gentle
#111 - 2014-09-25 13:04:59 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Precision Zero wrote:
Where is the dislike button?


THIS.

I can't believe this is happening actually. Am very disappoint.

The slippery slope has begun...



I hate with passion "Slippery slope" argument. You can say this about anything.

But more on topic:idea sound AWESOME, but honestly never on TQ. Maybe on sisi but never on TQ. It would make easier organizing any player driven tournaments but risks are too great imho.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#112 - 2014-09-25 13:05:10 UTC
To all those people who already bemoan the death of 1v1 PvP...

I would estimate that at least 78.3 % of all kills in EVE are generated through fights where one side would not have wanted the fight, because they were badly outnumbered.
People only fight if they think they will or will likely win.
So fights will only happen 1-5 times for each noob and then when one side does not pay attention/the cat runs over the keyboard or the like.
On the other hand, everyone wants PvP and cries that it's so hard to find fights (=fights they would win).

Result: people are hotdropping single ships with fleets of cloaky battleships... out of boredom.
And large areas where people do not do certain things, because it's... well... unhealthy because of all the ganks.

An arena sysrem would encourage risk adverse players (coll.: cowards ^^) to try PvP in a controlled environment.
Same counts for specialized PvPers who have not focussed on initiating fights/controlling condtions (coll.: mindless F1 drones).

With all those people in the Dojo, the thing is practically guaranteed to become a success.
And what is even more important:
The rest of the cluster will have a more balanced ratio of wolves and sheep.
And the learning cliff for PvP will be easier to master since you can train.
Le Petite More
Doomheim
#113 - 2014-09-25 13:05:12 UTC
Dear CCP,

Please consider that I have tried this and think it is a terrible idea. Solo roaming is hard enough without creating "safe" instances for people to partake in risk free pvp. This reduces player interaction without actually adding anything to the game. Like placing incursions in highsec this encourages a play style that will leave many of us upset. The answer to fights are hard to find is not to make them even harder to find.

These will also be abused the hell out of to create safe pockets for afk, well you can't call them cloakers because they won't have to cloak, cyno alts, scouts, supers, and links.

For newer players like those of us in BNI it also reduces our only weapon against the SP gap.....numbers.

I hope these never make them onto tranquility.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#114 - 2014-09-25 13:06:51 UTC
Eshnala wrote:
Just make the dojo destructable, including everything thats in there. Then you have the option to interfere with it.


and don't make them easy to build put them around the Cruiser level and maybe make the BPCs only spawn in LS
Chirality Tisteloin
Zervas Aeronautics
The Bastion
#115 - 2014-09-25 13:08:38 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
I also want to watch the matches!


Agreed.

Spectators could be a target for interuption and thus bind the dojo into the sandbox without disrupting the Pewdokas.
Make Stands that are scannable and warpable. Protected zone would then be more like a POS shield with shooting allowed inside.

How to make the spectators sit in their ships around the Dojo? Make them enforce the boundary violation Twisted

On the otherhand: Deadspace usage by players could have such potential. Player built acceleration gates .....

See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/

Randolph Sykes
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2014-09-25 13:09:30 UTC
Sierra Payne wrote:

So here I am, going out for a roam in FW space.

If you are trying to find targets in key systems of Caldari FW space - you are doing it wrong. You can easily find a lot of non-linked targets in less populated systems: Martoh, Ashitsu, Kehjari etc. Or in Minmatar FW space. See - you have become a little bit better! Big smile
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#117 - 2014-09-25 13:09:35 UTC
It is my opinion that this system needs to be implemented on Chaos posthaste; all the devs should definitely spend time per-week in it, in the hopes that the next dev roam won't be so mindlessly slaughtered.
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#118 - 2014-09-25 13:10:37 UTC
Le Petite More wrote:
Please consider that I have tried this and think it is a terrible idea.
Le Petite More wrote:
These will also be abused the hell out of to create safe pockets for afk, well you can't call them cloakers because they won't have to cloak, cyno alts, scouts, supers, and links.

Had you actually tried this you'd know the fight has a 5 minute timer.

And that the only ships and modules that go in are ships and modules that are stocked in the dojo.

Oye.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2014-09-25 13:16:20 UTC
Now you are talking crazy talk, let them get it the hate out of their systems before they try it or actually . . .you know. . . think.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Johnathan Coffey
Niforce Triggers
#120 - 2014-09-25 13:16:41 UTC
dexington wrote:
Two step wrote:
Where is this magic new requirement that you must be able to screw up what people want to do on their own time coming from?


Do you also think ccp would add instanced pve missions and mining belts where people could be left alone, or should this new trend remain a dojo exclusive?

Also stations, market orders, contracts, star gates and any other infrastructure that cannot be disrupted.

If your only argument is that ANY ship in space MUST ALWAYS be vulnerable to outside attackers, you have hereby disqualified yourself from the discussion. The real question is whether this proposed feature will make EVE a better game or not.

First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.