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Ore Compression and the State of Crius Industry

First post First post
Author
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#121 - 2014-09-04 00:18:48 UTC
Nex Killer wrote:

So the problem isn't with compressing then. The real problem is with what roids are within nullsec. So why ask CCP to change compressing and not ask them to add in more Plagioclase, Gneiss or Kernite to nullsec to fix the mex and low end mineral problem? You guys have your own CSM member on the team, so why not ask them to bring that up within one of the meetings? If CCP changed that then compressing how it is doesn't need to change.

No one said compression was at fault -- the entire point of my OP post is to give it a shot in the arm to increase the ability for highsec to market its wares. This whole "just mine it yourselves" tangent that gets pulled out every time nullsec dares to agitate for its own good has remarkably little to do with the thread's purpose.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#122 - 2014-09-04 00:22:26 UTC
Querns wrote:

No one said compression was at fault -- the entire point of my OP post is to give it a shot in the arm to increase the ability for highsec to market its wares. This whole "just mine it yourselves" tangent that gets pulled out every time nullsec dares to agitate for its own good has remarkably little to do with the thread's purpose.

That's because the thread wasn't about high sec marketing it's wares. It was about Null saying they NEEDED to buy from highsec.
On the topic of High Sec marketing it's wares, why exactly are you trying to destroy a natural force CCP have introduced to encourage corps to grow in high sec and to actually keep towers up during war decs? One would have thought you would love the idea of High Sec corps actually growing and having things at risk during a war dec by being large enough to make efficient and constant use of a tower.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#123 - 2014-09-04 00:23:07 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Sorry.... remind me how many titans you loose a day? In fact how many titans have been lost across EVE this year, which has had the bloodiest titan battle ever that isn't likely to be repeated unless the goons have a civil war between titan pilots since no-one else has that kind of resources any more.

Somebody doesn't understand the concept of an arms race. :V

Quote:

And remind me why you couldn't buy the ore from the renters (Which I understand aren't allowed to build their own titans)

We don't force our renters to make money in any particular way. We're not slavers. Our renters aren't allowed to build titans because there are no feasible ways to ensure that said titans do not end up in the hands of our enemies. Again, arms race.

Quote:

Also, remind me why you didn't count any of the trit from the other ores in those belts. That's 1.74 Titans from JUST THE VELD! Most of those other ores also have Trit in them.

If you wanna do the math on that, feel free. Our needs will still outstrip our ability to supply.

Quote:

And more relevant to this thread, they are also higher value, and by mining them you'll also make high ends worth more again.
Which is the real point, it's Nulls own fault that high ends are worth so little because they don't make use of the other ores available to them.

This is a decent attempt at a coherent thought.

Quote:
I think we have found the issue though, it's called living beyond your means and unrealistic expectations.

Mountains out of molehills. All I want is for compression to be more ubiquitous.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#124 - 2014-09-04 00:23:55 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Querns wrote:

No one said compression was at fault -- the entire point of my OP post is to give it a shot in the arm to increase the ability for highsec to market its wares. This whole "just mine it yourselves" tangent that gets pulled out every time nullsec dares to agitate for its own good has remarkably little to do with the thread's purpose.

That's because the thread wasn't about high sec marketing it's wares. It was about Null saying they NEEDED to buy from highsec.
On the topic of High Sec marketing it's wares, why exactly are you trying to destroy a natural force CCP have introduced to encourage corps to grow in high sec and to actually keep towers up during war decs? One would have thought you would love the idea of High Sec corps actually growing and having things at risk during a war dec by being large enough to make efficient and constant use of a tower.

You're reaching. Considerably.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#125 - 2014-09-04 00:27:33 UTC
Querns wrote:

You're reaching. Considerably.

No, I'm really not. All your arguments have boiled down to 'Goons want stuff with no effort to themselves'.
I've even produced numbers to back my case, and the Ore compression is showing a natural influence to encourage corp growth. With Corp & POS management slated for before the end of the year, that will help alleviate a lot of the theft issues people get scared by as well and continue that trend of actually creating reasons for high sec people to corp together.

Your proposal however will remove a reason to bother with a tower just so Null can buy more ore to keep the arms race (against who exactly, highsec? You already have a blue doughnut). Without letting natural EVE market forces work. You are trying to force people down a path, rather than let gameplay emerge
Bella Sprout
Just Post
Goonswarm Federation
#126 - 2014-09-04 00:28:58 UTC
550 cycles of an XL belt will produce the same amount of veld as all 710 belts in the region. You'd be better off getting all of your systems to industry 4 and cherrypicking lowends before even thinking about mining out all of the belts because the control over belt spawns is worth plenty by itself. This excludes the small and medium belts too, which have a fair amount of low ends. There is 0 reason to be mining belts in null unless you do not have access to anything else--as it should be because the ore anoms are a result of actually utilizing space

Hint: keeping that many systems on that high of an industry index is not practical
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2014-09-04 00:30:04 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Querns wrote:

You're reaching. Considerably.

No, I'm really not. All your arguments have boiled down to 'Goons want stuff with no effort to themselves'.
I've even produced numbers to back my case, and the Ore compression is showing a natural influence to encourage corp growth. With Corp & POS management slated for before the end of the year, that will help alleviate a lot of the theft issues people get scared by as well and continue that trend of actually creating reasons for high sec people to corp together.


You're constructing a contrived vignette with very little basis in reality.

Quote:

Your proposal however will remove a reason to bother with a tower just so Null can buy more ore to keep the arms race (against who exactly, highsec? You already have a blue doughnut). Without letting natural EVE market forces work. You are trying to force people down a path, rather than let gameplay emerge

You are speaking of a political landscape you do not understand. Not surprising, given your repeated use of memes such as "blue doughnut" and "intel channels."

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#128 - 2014-09-04 00:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Bella Sprout wrote:
550 cycles of an XL belt will produce the same amount of veld as all 710 belts in the region.

Now tell me how long to mine that Veld vs how long to cycle 550 XL Belts. I don't even have to run the numbers to know cycling those XL belts will be vastly longer than mining said static belts for Veld. And you don't have to try and hold an Industry level to mine the static belts either.

As for you Querns. Yes, it's all in our imagination, Goons are really beset with enemies from all sides. This is why the number of Null entities has steadily decreased as any enemy of the goons has suffered coincidental 'accidents' like missed Sov bills when the goons co-incidentally had their titan fleet ready to go despite the other side having more total titans, alliance wallet thefts... and other such 'accidents'. And why the political map has stabilised into a few huge entities, which have an agreement between each other. Yes, it's all my imagination and you are really loosing super caps constantly and that there is no such thing as an intel channel either.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#129 - 2014-09-04 00:43:02 UTC
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
Pookoko wrote:
I don't understand why some 'small corp' thinks having a POS is out of their scope. My first POS in New Eden was anchored by our two-men corp (with no alts). And back then we had to grind faction standings all the way to have a high-sec POS, which took a lot of effort. Also it was way before the fuel blocks were introduced and filling up POS fuel was real PITA.

Now POS can be anchored anywhere in high-sec with no standing requirement. Now there is convenience of fuel block. Now there are advantages of manufacturing at high-sec POS. Now you can even compress ores to make even more profit - and heck, compression is instant and doesn't require any BPC.

It is already SO EASY now to have a high-sec POS and compress ores. Just anchor a freaking POS and be done with it.


I don't think the problem is that it's hard; it's just not cost-effective. Running a small 24x7 POS in hisec will run you ~6M ISK per day (fuel blocks + charters). You can save ISK if you only online it when you need it, but that's not always possible and anyway, it's a pain logistically. Now, 6M ISK isn't that much for bigger corps, but for smaller corps that's a non-trivial amount of ISK to spend every day. At minimum, you have to bring in enough ISK to make the POS worthwhile -- so you need to make more than 6M ISK per day in your efforts.

But yes, running a POS now is way, way easier to do now. The standings requirements alone were a huge pain to grind up before, which is why many industrialists didn't bother. But now, if you can afford the 6M or so ISK cost each day, they're a no-brainer.

However, there is a caveat: I think (and hope) that POS's are not long for the world. If the mobile modules are the wave of the future, I hope CCP will create a Mobile Ore Compression module so you can compress your ore right in the belt. I'm hesitant to build up a large logistics chain around POS's for just this reason.


In a way I see your point, and the other poster who mentioned that it takes time to recoup the investment. Especially if you are a solo miner, like many people are, then it may be easier not to have a POS.

But this is only if you consider using POS exclusively for compression. If you are a small corp with even just a few industrialists, then there is a lot of benefit to be had by having a POS. What I meant was that a) POS is now easier to anchor & keep than ever before, b) now there is ADDED bonus of compression.

I do agree that having POS JUST for compression is a hassle unless you intend to do serious amount of compressing. I was just pointing out that many opportunities exist with POS, and these opportunities are more readily available now, and it is up to players to make use of them for their own benefit.

Having said that though, mobile compression module is an interesting idea, if other players can steal from it like flipping a can, which will generate new possibilities too. Come to think about it, I like this idea much more than high-sec station compressing.

What I'm against is that station compression is instant profit with no game play. Having a POS can be good, but like some others mentioned it's also a risk in a way because your asset is in space - i.e. it can be attacked or messed with by other players. Station compression automatically increase the value of your ores with no risk or game play attached.

So a mobile module where there is some element of risk and vulnerability while compressing ore in space would be something that gives a choice of risk (albeit minor) vs. reward. If we are going to do Orca compression, there should be some element of risk/vulnerability for this activity too (maybe something like Orca's resist profile goes down during compression 'siege mod' so it becomes more gankable?)



Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2014-09-04 00:43:40 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Bella Sprout wrote:
550 cycles of an XL belt will produce the same amount of veld as all 710 belts in the region.

Now tell me how long to mine that Veld vs how long to cycle 550 XL Belts. I don't even have to run the numbers to know cycling those XL belts will be vastly longer than mining said static belts for Veld. And you don't have to try and hold an Industry level to mine the static belts either.

As for you Querns. Yes, it's all in our imagination, Goons are really beset with enemies from all sides. This is why the number of Null entities has steadily decreased as any enemy of the goons has suffered coincidental 'accidents' like missed Sov bills when the goons co-incidentally had their titan fleet ready to go despite the other side having more total titans, alliance wallet thefts... and other such 'accidents'. And why the political map has stabilised into a few huge entities, which have an agreement between each other. Yes, it's all my imagination and you are really loosing super caps constantly and that there is no such thing as an intel channel either.

For someone who is constantly demanding hard evidence, you sure are willing to use poorly-conceived mental shortcuts when you drift out of your element.

Hint: you are out of your element.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#131 - 2014-09-04 00:45:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Pookoko wrote:
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
Pookoko wrote:
I don't understand why some 'small corp' thinks having a POS is out of their scope. My first POS in New Eden was anchored by our two-men corp (with no alts). And back then we had to grind faction standings all the way to have a high-sec POS, which took a lot of effort. Also it was way before the fuel blocks were introduced and filling up POS fuel was real PITA.

Now POS can be anchored anywhere in high-sec with no standing requirement. Now there is convenience of fuel block. Now there are advantages of manufacturing at high-sec POS. Now you can even compress ores to make even more profit - and heck, compression is instant and doesn't require any BPC.

It is already SO EASY now to have a high-sec POS and compress ores. Just anchor a freaking POS and be done with it.


I don't think the problem is that it's hard; it's just not cost-effective. Running a small 24x7 POS in hisec will run you ~6M ISK per day (fuel blocks + charters). You can save ISK if you only online it when you need it, but that's not always possible and anyway, it's a pain logistically. Now, 6M ISK isn't that much for bigger corps, but for smaller corps that's a non-trivial amount of ISK to spend every day. At minimum, you have to bring in enough ISK to make the POS worthwhile -- so you need to make more than 6M ISK per day in your efforts.

But yes, running a POS now is way, way easier to do now. The standings requirements alone were a huge pain to grind up before, which is why many industrialists didn't bother. But now, if you can afford the 6M or so ISK cost each day, they're a no-brainer.

However, there is a caveat: I think (and hope) that POS's are not long for the world. If the mobile modules are the wave of the future, I hope CCP will create a Mobile Ore Compression module so you can compress your ore right in the belt. I'm hesitant to build up a large logistics chain around POS's for just this reason.


In a way I see your point, and the other poster who mentioned that it takes time to recoup the investment. Especially if you are a solo miner, like many people are, then it may be easier not to have a POS.

But this is only if you consider using POS exclusively for compression. If you are a small corp with even just a few industrialists, then there is a lot of benefit to be had by having a POS. What I meant was that a) POS is now easier to anchor & keep than ever before, b) now there is ADDED bonus of compression.

I do agree that having POS JUST for compression is a hassle unless you intend to do serious amount of compressing. I was just pointing out that many opportunities exist with POS, and these opportunities are more readily available now, and it is up to players to make use of them for their own benefit.

Having said that though, mobile compression module is an interesting idea, if other players can steal from it like flipping a can, which will generate new possibilities too. Come to think about it, I like this idea much more than high-sec station compressing.

What I'm against is that station compression is instant profit with no game play. Having a POS can be good, but like some others mentioned it's also a risk in a way because your asset is in space - i.e. it can be attacked or messed with by other players. Station compression automatically increase the value of your ores with no risk or game play attached.

So a mobile module where there is some element of risk and vulnerability while compressing ore in space would be something that gives a choice of risk (albeit minor) vs. reward. If we are going to do Orca compression, there should be some element of risk/vulnerability for this activity too (maybe something like Orca's resist profile goes down during compression 'siege mod' so it becomes more gankable?)




These are interesting thoughts. I think just the bog-standard siege mechanic already in place for the Industrial Core would suffice, to start -- being frozen in the belt in highsec makes you vulnerable to suicide gank. If it was deemed too "safe," additional concessions could be added after subsequent patches.

edit: I think we'd have to give the orca an additional high slot to fit the Industrial Core, too -- otherwise it can't fit a full rack of gang links and the Industrial Core at once. I suppose that could be a tradeoff, come to think of it, but it is kinda ornery.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#132 - 2014-09-04 01:19:10 UTC
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
I don't think the problem is that it's hard; it's just not cost-effective. Running a small 24x7 POS in hisec will run you ~6M ISK per day (fuel blocks + charters). You can save ISK if you only online it when you need it, but that's not always possible and anyway, it's a pain logistically.

You're thinking this through wrong. You only put it up when and where you need it. A compression POS doesn't just save you ISK, it lets you mine anywhere in high-sec without the need of a freighter fleet to get your goods to market. So not only do you make more ISK on the rocks you mine, but it saves you over one billion ISK for your logistics chain. It's a better investment than upgrading a barge to an exhumer.
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
#133 - 2014-09-04 07:15:01 UTC
If the problem is a shortage of compressed omber and kernite on the market, then making ore compression ubiquitous is not going to help.

There is very little omber on the market, because it is terrible isk/hr to mine. High sec miners can make more isk per hour by mining literally any other type of ore. Omber has been on the bottom of the heap for years. High sec miners are accustomed to moving on to a different belt when all the good ores are gone. Since very little omber is mined, very little will be available to compress. Perhaps your purchasing spreadsheet should be adjusted to minimize omber requirements.

Kernite comes from Amarr space, so it is going to get compressed over there. Somebody flying a freighter of compressed kernite through Madirmilire -> Niarja is going to make a glorious killmail one of these days. Forgive everyone else for not wanting to be that guy. I also believe the relative populations of Caldari space vs Amarr space means fewer miners are gathering Kernite. If the prices are right, people will move.

In the meantime, you will probably need a few jump freighters full of straight isogen. At least there is no need to haul tritanium and pyrite. There are plenty of people 0.01 isking each other on their compressed veldspar and scordite sell orders. That is what leads me to believe the compressed ore market is doing just fine.


What would happen if ore compression becomes ubiquitous? Then compression loses its value and you will buy all your compressed ore at mineral prices. For 11 years, the default thing for every miner to do at the end of the night was hit “refine.” If that button is simply changed to a “compress” button, there is still no compelling interesting decision. All the ore on the market will be compressed ore, and that compressed ore will sell for very close to its mineral value.

Currently, compression is tied to a risk (being in a player corp and hanging a POS at a moon) and a time consuming hassle (freightering ore to the POS.) Because of this, compression is a value add. Some miners will choose to do it and get better prices for their ore. Many miners won’t. Some people will step up to become the middle-men who buy ore from the miners and compress it. They want to get paid. More people interacting with each other is good.

As you can tell from this 9-page thread full of people screaming, “Don’t touch my new cash-cow!” there are plenty of people who want to be middle-men and will lose that niche if compression is made easier.

So making compression ubiquitous gives cheap compressed ore to everyone, but does not solve the null-sec isogen and mexallon problems. Meanwhile, it snuffs out a new mini-profession that just started a month ago. That is why I am against doing anything to change compression mechanics for the time being.


However, I do want to re-iterate that I support a change to the refining UI that puts big red numbers in front of the miner to remind them that pushing the refine button causes them to lose value.
Nex Killer
Perkone
Caldari State
#134 - 2014-09-04 07:21:35 UTC
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
However, there is a caveat: I think (and hope) that POS's are not long for the world. If the mobile modules are the wave of the future, I hope CCP will create a Mobile Ore Compression module so you can compress your ore right in the belt. I'm hesitant to build up a large logistics chain around POS's for just this reason.


I wouldn't mind seeing the Orca being able to compress or a mobile compressing unit.
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2014-09-04 09:00:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Firvain
Querns wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Querns wrote:

You've got a pretty funny idea of how many belts any given nullsec dweller has access to.

Why don't you tell me -- right now, how many belts could I potentially mine?

Goons own what.... 200ish systems last I looked don't they as an alliance?
So probably about 1500-2000 belts.

Wrong -- I only have access to Deklein. All other regions are owned by allies or are renter systems, which are off-limits to me and mine.

Some SQL helps us quantify this:

Eve Static Data Export wrote:

sqlite> select regionID from mapRegions where regionName = "Deklein";
10000035
sqlite> select typeID, typeName FROM invTypes WHERE typeName LIKE "%Asteroid Belt%";
15|Asteroid Belt
sqlite> select count(*) from mapDenormalize WHERE regionID = 10000035 AND typeID = 15;
710


That's 710 belts. Let's mine out, say, all the veldspar from all of these belts. That gives us 463,019,400 units of veldspar. Reprocessing all of this veldspar gives you 1,921,530,510 trit at (an impossible) 100% refine. Multiplying this by the best possible refine in nullsec (86.83%) and pretending refinery taxes don't exist, that is 1,668,464,942 trit for the entire output of all the veldspar. Now, let's triple that, because three variants of veldspar exist (and I'm too lazy to do them individually; this figure is a bit higher than reality.) That gives us 5,005,394,825 units of trit. Using http://eve-industry.org/calc/ to eyeball the cost of an avatar puts us at 3,745,571,923 tritanium, which means, if we ruthlessly exploit every scrap of trit in an asteroid belt that we have access to, we can build 1.33 titans a day.

However, we have dozens of titan producers. Plus, there are supercarriers, capital ships, and mass numbers of battleships that have to be produced. Suffice it to say -- asteroid belts cannot sate our needs. War in TYOOL 2014 requires more mineral resources than we can mine locally. This is simply the facts of life.



Sweet so need to hire enough miners to mine all that veldspar and it can fill my weekly use in about 4 days, not bad, now the other minerals still...

So im recruiting miners, anyone wants to mine some veldspar in 0.0 belts feel free to mail me!
Grace Chang
Tyrannis Enterprises
#136 - 2014-09-04 09:37:40 UTC
With all this discussion about 0.0 belts, let us not pretend the OP was actually interested in mining.

Anybody who has ever mined knows that the asteroid belts in 0.0 contain more ore per rock on average, including the low ends. So just based on this you are already better off than highsec miners - in addition to this you have infinite grav anomalies and infinite combat anomalies which also contain ore.

But this is not what this is about. Truth is, it doesn't matter whether you could mine your materials in 0.0, because you do not have enough people to so, even if you wanted. But actually you do not even want to. You care less than a rats arse about miners, what you want is cheap minerals in your boosted production stations so you can put your Capital BPOs to work.

It has been pointed out by several people how you could adapt. But you do not want to, because that would be *effort* and you are used to the Easy Mode Module compression.

Some people have adapted, some people profit from the change, you go whine to the forums. My sympathy for you: zero.

I just double-checked on the buy orders in Jita concerning the minerals you complain you are missing. There are no decent buy orders nor orders in quantities that are significantly above the mineral value or raw ore value. So from the easiest option you have (just buy it in highsec), you probably want to wait until there is quantities on sell orders with razor thin margins. Again, my sympathy for you: zero.

If you look at the overall market for ore (not compressed ore) on eve central, it seems obvious that a significant quantity does not see the market in the first place, but is traded via contacts, contracts and buy programs. So the smart people obviously approach mining corporations and buy in bulk. But for that to work you probably need to have at least a decent reputation. Sucks for you, i guess.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#137 - 2014-09-04 12:49:25 UTC
Shoogie wrote:
Kernite comes from Amarr space, so it is going to get compressed over there. Somebody flying a freighter of compressed kernite through Madirmilire -> Niarja is going to make a glorious killmail one of these days. Forgive everyone else for not wanting to be that guy.

Deep Space Transports are a thing.
Shoogie wrote:
What would happen if ore compression becomes ubiquitous? Then compression loses its value and you will buy all your compressed ore at mineral prices.

The value in compression is its portability. If we're buying compressed ore at mineral prices, then we are buying it assuming an 86%0.0 refine yield, not the 76% of high sec.
Shoogie wrote:
Currently, compression is tied to a risk (being in a player corp and hanging a POS at a moon) and a time consuming hassle (freightering ore to the POS.)

The risk is tiny: one man corps don't get war decced as they are pitifully easy to shed. And the time consuming hassle is absolutely nothing compared to moving raw or refined product to market.

Besides, regarding this "time consuming hassle," I spent four hours over the weekend compressing ore I purchased from the market, and I used a research alt that can barely sit in a Miasmos (Gallente Industrial 1, Evasive Maneuvering 0, Space Ship Command 3, Afterburner 0 - Only thing going was Hull Upgrades 3), so forget about a freighter. Four hours, I netted 160 million. One character using skills a day-old could have, 40 million an hour. What does high-sec mining generally get a fully-skilled solo player per hour? At the moment, there is a time consuming hassle here, and compression isn't it.
Shoogie wrote:
That is why I am against doing anything to change compression mechanics for the time being.

I agree with you here. There is no need to change compression mechanics. They're fine. People just need to know what's up.
Oxide Ammar
#138 - 2014-09-04 12:49:44 UTC
Firvain wrote:
Sweet so need to hire enough miners to mine all that veldspar and it can fill my weekly use in about 4 days, not bad, now the other minerals still...

So im recruiting miners, anyone wants to mine some veldspar in 0.0 belts feel free to mail me!


There is question bothering me really ...why none of you cap builders hire indy corps in hi sec ? it's far easier and safer for you and them to work with mutually agreement to provide you exclusively with compressed ore on weekly basis. If not one corp enough why don't you do this for 5 or may be 10 corps.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#139 - 2014-09-04 13:18:58 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Firvain wrote:
Sweet so need to hire enough miners to mine all that veldspar and it can fill my weekly use in about 4 days, not bad, now the other minerals still...

So im recruiting miners, anyone wants to mine some veldspar in 0.0 belts feel free to mail me!


There is question bothering me really ...why none of you cap builders hire indy corps in hi sec ? it's far easier and safer for you and them to work with mutually agreement to provide you exclusively with compressed ore on weekly basis. If not one corp enough why don't you do this for 5 or may be 10 corps.



You obviously missed my responses, that is exactly what i have done.

I talked to them, educated them, helped them increase their yields, now they make more isk and are very happy and loyal.

In order for goons to do this, they would have to play nice to pubbies, and also try and talk the same people they constantly gank to sell them the very stuff they gank for funsies

Kind of a catch-22

I have had the popcorn out for almost a month and I am just now getting to the good part
Strawberries'n Carnage
Elessar Recruitment and Training Division
#140 - 2014-09-04 13:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Strawberries'n Carnage
I think this thread has pointed me in the direction of a new Eve Career.

I am fairly new to Eve so please excuse my ignorance. I have read the industry changes for the last 2 patches so I think I have an idea on how compression should work but when I try to verify the process in game I am seeing something different.

The POS changes, the ability to put them up in any system without needing standing. This works fine, I was able to scout out a spot at a moon and put my POS up and my compression array.

I then started to look at compression itself before I set up any ore buy orders. In the dev blogs it is mentioned that the compression blueprints will no longer be needed and owners will be compensated; however when looking at compressed ore it still shows a blueprint as being needed. Has this not been implemented yet or has the old information not been removed?

I then tried to look at pricing to see what ores would be good to start with and I am once again confused by what I see. Veld is selling at Jita at 18 per, while compressed is about 2200 per; when I look at the amount of veld needed to make one compressed ore (as per the blueprint) it is requiring 166500 veld to compress. It is most likely that I have no idea what I should be looking at but the math does not add up.

I will admit that I had not thought to look at contracts to see pricing there and I will as soon as I am able.

Are the compression blueprints still needed for ore compression? If they are no longer needed then all of the compressed ores need to have their information updated. It would be informative to be able to look at the compressed ore and know how much raw ore is needed to produce a single unit as well as any required batch amounts in addition to the minerals received from refining. Some info on being able to compress at a POS compression array or Rorqual would at least point players in the right direction if they wish to pursue compression.

Would anyone be able to give me a rundown or point me towards an explanation of how the compression process works?

Please have mercy on my noobie soul.