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CCP Response Regarding SOMER Blink Concerns

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De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#681 - 2014-08-22 01:43:24 UTC
Felicia Tennyson wrote:
it's hilarious but how sad that people are so eager to demonstrate the "Fifty Shades of Dumb" already...


I think we're up to more like 150 Shades by now. Before long, we're going to need a bigger register to store the bit values.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#682 - 2014-08-22 01:43:41 UTC
I swear I feel my brain liquifying after having read all those grr goon posts.

Thankfully there wasn't much of a brain to begin with.
Slicr
#683 - 2014-08-22 01:44:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Slicr wrote:
As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is:
Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game.
Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money.

And the essential part of RMT is that it's a transaction involving real money, and an in-game asset (excluding PLEX) or ISK.
Selling PLEX through affiliate links and so forth is a transaction of real money with no isk component. Therefore it's not RMT.



Can you buy Plex with ISK?

I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#684 - 2014-08-22 01:47:07 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

Relevant:



OMG, Doc, I am literally laughing so hard I am crying. I bookmarked that. All my space likes for you.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Slicr
#685 - 2014-08-22 01:48:12 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Just for those that are hard of understanding

Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed.
Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not.



Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it.
Your not allowed to break the law but you can


I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
Slicr
#686 - 2014-08-22 01:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Slicr
Tippia wrote:
Slicr wrote:
As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is:
Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game.
…and they're not RMT for the reasons described. No in-game items are being traded for real money.

Quote:
Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money.
“Real money” is something vastly different than RMT. Anything associated with your local grocery store is also associated with real money. Anything associated with having a job is associated with real money. And yet, buying some poptarts on your way back from work is not RMT, even though it's associated with real money twice over.



What is your definition of RMT

Mine is that:

Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value.
Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT

The ability to sell Plex for real money is there - it is just not legal (according to CCP). You can do it and that is what makes PLEX RMT.

I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#687 - 2014-08-22 01:59:41 UTC
Slicr wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Just for those that are hard of understanding

Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed.
Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not.



Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it.
Your not allowed to break the law but you can


Then when you get caught, you shouldn't whine about getting punished.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#688 - 2014-08-22 02:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Slicr wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Just for those that are hard of understanding

Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed.
Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not.

Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it.
Your not allowed to break the law but you can
Your point being?

Quote:
What is your definition of RMT

Mine is that:

Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value.
Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT

The ability to sell Plex for real money is there - it is just not legal (according to CCP). You can do it and that is what makes PLEX RMT.
Your definition of RMT is irrelevant. RMT is whatever CCP says it is when the term is used in relation or applied to their product.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Slicr
#689 - 2014-08-22 02:01:57 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Slicr wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Just for those that are hard of understanding

Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed.
Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not.



Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it.
Your not allowed to break the law but you can


Then when you get caught, you shouldn't whine about getting punished.



I agree 100%

I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#690 - 2014-08-22 02:05:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Derrick Miles wrote:

I'm not quite sure you could consider paying people isk to spam advertisements for your website as not RMT. You would essentially be paying in-game currency for something that is an out-of-game benefit. Besides which, I'm pretty sure there's a clause about spamming ads in-game in the ToS or EULA somewhere.


Don't get to hung up in the practical specifics, there are a few practical flaws, but nothing that couldn't be worked around, in what I described but the theoretical model itself makes the point I was aiming for.

Anyhow my aim here isn't to bring any entity down, just to voice distaste as to certain elements of what has been going on. (Unrelated to TMC).
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#691 - 2014-08-22 02:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Who knew that there were so many shades of dumb?


Oh wait Einstein did.

Edit ~ Look what I found on Amazon

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#692 - 2014-08-22 02:11:51 UTC
Slicr wrote:
Can you buy Plex with ISK?

Not from retailers, no.

Quote:
Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it.

It is when we're talking about PLEX retailers.

Quote:
What is your definition of RMT

Mine is that:

Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value.
Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT
…except that you're not exchanging real-life cash for an in-game item. Yo're exchanging OOG cash for an OOG item and you're trading an in-game item for in-game cash. The bits inbetween are just you using CCP's account services. So if you want to use that as your defining feature, you have made the term meaningless since everything is RMT (incidentally, this means it fundamentally fails as a definition).

…and that's if you definition was even relevant to begin with, which it isn't.
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#693 - 2014-08-22 02:15:21 UTC
CCP, before your economist quit, he said he took some of the confiscated RMT ISK from banned accounts and used it to seed a few more plex into the market.


Now that Somer is kersplatted, along with all of his liquid isk (not talking about the trillions upon trillions in assets), do you think you could turn a positive into an even bigger positive and use the isk to "fix" the plex market?

Reducing the cost = more people / newer people playing = moar overall profit = more people coming in = better paid devs = less bugs = moar people playing = stuff, and so on.

If I were you, I'd explore the pros and cons to this. Maybe the pros outweigh the cons

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#694 - 2014-08-22 02:28:23 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
Any site that sells PLEX or time codes is involved in RMT of a type that is allowed and governed by CCP. Sites that pay isk or request isk for certain services are also engaged in something that is close to RMT but that also is allowed and governed by CCP. I say it's close to RMT because CCP has stepped in to set rules for how this kind of transaction can be properly done. CCP has the right to allow players to do these kinds of transactions. Why fight about calling them RMT when the point is that this is CCP's product and CCP can govern how RMT and related types of income are handled. None of these third party sites are doing anything wrong. You can have the opinion that it's wrong if you want but why would you bother when your opinion means nothing unless you are in charge of the game?
Sites that sell PLEX and time codes are not involved in RMT because they sell digital goods that can only be transfered one way: into the game, and only redeemed there. If there were to be any kind of traffic in the other direction then it would become RMT. I do agree that there are other types of services allowed by CCP that would otherwise be classified as RMT however.

Tippia wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
The isk is being used to generate content on an external site which would be a case of RMT. The only reason it isn't considered to be RMT is because CCP has explicitly stated that it is allowed to pay isk for this kind of content, as well as the other stuff like graphic design and such.
Thus: not RMT, no matter how angry it makes Mr. Pink Poker above.
After all, no in-game-to-out-of-game transaction takes place.
Yes I agree, but what I quoted didn't exactly say that.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#695 - 2014-08-22 02:36:19 UTC
TheButcherPete wrote:
CCP, before your economist quit, he said he took some of the confiscated RMT ISK from banned accounts and used it to seed a few more plex into the market.


Now that Somer is kersplatted, along with all of his liquid isk (not talking about the trillions upon trillions in assets), do you think you could turn a positive into an even bigger positive and use the isk to "fix" the plex market?

There's nothing broken about it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Slicr
#696 - 2014-08-22 02:37:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Slicr wrote:
Can you buy Plex with ISK?

Not from retailers, no.

Quote:
Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it.

It is when we're talking about PLEX retailers.

Quote:
What is your definition of RMT

Mine is that:

Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value.
Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT
…except that you're not exchanging real-life cash for an in-game item. Yo're exchanging OOG cash for an OOG item and you're trading an in-game item for in-game cash. The bits inbetween are just you using CCP's account services. So if you want to use that as your defining feature, you have made the term meaningless since everything is RMT (incidentally, this means it fundamentally fails as a definition).

…and that's if you definition was even relevant to begin with, which it isn't.


Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is.

The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it.

Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.


I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#697 - 2014-08-22 02:41:30 UTC
Slicr wrote:
Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.

He's posted it several times.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Slicr
#698 - 2014-08-22 02:42:29 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Slicr wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Just for those that are hard of understanding

Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed.
Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not.

Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it.
Your not allowed to break the law but you can
Your point being?

Quote:
What is your definition of RMT

Mine is that:

Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value.
Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT

The ability to sell Plex for real money is there - it is just not legal (according to CCP). You can do it and that is what makes PLEX RMT.
Your definition of RMT is irrelevant. RMT is whatever CCP says it is when the term is used in relation or applied to their product.


Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
That is my definition of RMT - others have theirs.

I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#699 - 2014-08-22 02:44:29 UTC
Slicr wrote:
Tippia wrote:
...


Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is.

The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it.

Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.



For me RMT is the trade of in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. What is your definition?
Slicr
#700 - 2014-08-22 02:49:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Slicr wrote:
Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.

He's posted it several times.


Not to me and not when I asked him. He only partial quoted my post (which I find childish since it can put things out of context)


I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.