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CCP Response Regarding SOMER Blink Concerns

First post First post First post
Author
Slicr
#701 - 2014-08-22 02:50:40 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Slicr wrote:
Tippia wrote:
...


Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is.

The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it.

Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.



For me RMT is the trade of in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. What is your definition?


Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value.

I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#702 - 2014-08-22 02:53:59 UTC
Slicr wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

You're not entitled to your own facts.

RMT is the exchange of real life currency or assets (with the exception of certain services directly related to EVE) for in-game currency or assets.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#703 - 2014-08-22 03:07:35 UTC
Slicr wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
...
For me RMT is the trade of in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. What is your definition?

Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value.

I can certainly see that as a valid definition for RMT. The only thing I'd point out though is that CCP specifically has created certain dynamics and exceptions to what they consider 'illegal' RMT. First, PLEX was created as a way to bridge the gap between the real-world economy and the Eve economy and so, as you say, there is value exchanged into the game world. The key distinction CCP makes, however, is that this exchange is strictly one way. There is only value transferred from real world currency into the game economy and rarely anything from in-game transferred out. The exceptions to this rule are the allowed forms of RMT which CCP has given players permission to partake in, namely things like graphic design, web development, writing, and web hosting.

Basically, in CCP's view, anything traded in-game for real-world things that aren't on their exception list is RMT.
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#704 - 2014-08-22 03:18:39 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. .


So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy.


Is this correct?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#705 - 2014-08-22 03:21:18 UTC
Slicr wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…except that you're not exchanging real-life cash for an in-game item. Yo're exchanging OOG cash for an OOG item and you're trading an in-game item for in-game cash. The bits inbetween are just you using CCP's account services. So if you want to use that as your defining feature, you have made the term meaningless since everything is RMT (incidentally, this means it fundamentally fails as a definition).

…and that's if you definition was even relevant to begin with, which it isn't.


Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is.

The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it.

Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.




I'll try to clarify to help you out.

1. When you buy a PLEX, you give CCP (or their business partners) OOG money in exchange for an OOG item (a PLEX code).
2. CCP's account services allow you to exchange that OOG item for gametime, either in the form of a month subscription or an IG game time token (a PLEX).
3. You may then, should you choose a game time token, sell that IG item for IG ISK, and use that ISK for whatever you want.

Calling that RMT requires that you argue that step 2 is RMT, as that is the only step in which we see both an in game and out of game component. As that step is simply using CCP's account services, that's going to be a hard argument to make.

And the only relevant definition for RMT with regards to EVE is CCP's definition:

EULA wrote:
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.


TOS wrote:

10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.

11. The advertisement or sale of out of game goods and services not directly related to EVE online is prohibited. The only out of game goods and services which can be advertised or sold are the following: EVE forum signature creation, website and third party voice communication server hosting or EVE Time Codes.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Slicr
#706 - 2014-08-22 03:34:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Slicr wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

You're not entitled to your own facts.

RMT is the exchange of real life currency or assets (with the exception of certain services directly related to EVE) for in-game currency or assets.



Never said I was.

Fact - you can buy Plex with real money
Fact - you can buy most things in game with Plex via the contract system or trade
Fact - you can give your buddy gaming with you real money to get him to give you a plex or any other tradable item in game.

The fact that it is deemed illegal by CCP does not change the FACT that it can be done.

I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.

Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#707 - 2014-08-22 03:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. .


So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy.


Is this correct?


No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture.
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#708 - 2014-08-22 03:37:00 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. .


So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy.


Is this correct?


No. That's not said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture.


Please clarify for the record!
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#709 - 2014-08-22 03:41:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. .


So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy.


Is this correct?


No. That's not said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture.


Please clarify for the record!


Sure.

N-O, T-H-A-T I-S-N-'-T T-H-E C-H-A-I-N O-F E-V-E-N-T-S
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#710 - 2014-08-22 03:49:40 UTC
Nobody ever mentioned anything about them having done that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

HarlyQ
harlyq syrokos investment station
#711 - 2014-08-22 03:50:17 UTC
I'm enjoying the crazies that are out here. This is the best thing to go to bed to. It's not everyday you go to sleep being accused of RMT even if vaguely. Please keep posting so I have something to read while waiting for my job interview. Thank you for the content.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#712 - 2014-08-22 03:58:07 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Slicr wrote:
Tippia wrote:
...


Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is.

The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it.

Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.



For me RMT is the trade of in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. What is your definition?


I'll tell you what RMT is.

It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. It's also, in the context of this particular thread, a classic false flag operation.

It'll be interesting to see where CCP takes this as more unfolds.

Mr Epeen Cool
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#713 - 2014-08-22 04:01:49 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Slicr wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Slicr wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

You're not entitled to your own facts.

RMT is the exchange of real life currency or assets (with the exception of certain services directly related to EVE) for in-game currency or assets.



Never said I was.

Fact - you can buy Plex with real money
Fact - you can buy most things in game with Plex via the contract system or trade
Fact - you can give your buddy gaming with you real money to get him to give you a plex or any other tradable item in game.

The fact that it is deemed illegal by CCP does not change the FACT that it can be done.


Number 3 there is RMT.

What's your point?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

John Ending
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#714 - 2014-08-22 04:01:51 UTC
this thread jumped the shark 15 pages ago
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#715 - 2014-08-22 04:08:01 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game.

Apologist.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#716 - 2014-08-22 04:08:32 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
...

I'll tell you what RMT is.

It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. It's also, in the context of this particular thread, a classic false flag operation.

It'll be interesting to see where CCP takes this as more unfolds.

Mr Epeen Cool

I disagree, I think RMT can have a big impact on any MMO and I, at least, am glad CCP and their security team is on top of enforcement. It may seem inconsequential at first glance, internet pixels and all that, but the complex and vibrant market economy simulation that Eve is home to is one of the unique and awesome things that makes Eve stand out among it's competitors. It would be a true shame to see it wrecked by a bunch of greedy people who are too short-sighted to see that.
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#717 - 2014-08-22 04:08:37 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. .


So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy.


Is this correct?


No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing.


Can you help me understand what is on this page then?

http://themittani.com/news/april-tmc-update-real-space-streamers-and-dota2

Snip from said page:
http://imgur.com/FbR3Uyb

This looks like its pay isk for non eve stuff ... what says you?
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#718 - 2014-08-22 04:09:05 UTC
John Ending wrote:
this thread jumped the shark 15 pages ago


More like after the first post.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#719 - 2014-08-22 04:13:50 UTC
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. .


So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy.


Is this correct?


No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing.


Can you help me understand what is on this page then?

http://themittani.com/news/april-tmc-update-real-space-streamers-and-dota2

Snip from said page:
http://imgur.com/FbR3Uyb

This looks like its pay isk for non eve stuff ... what says you?

I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go.
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
#720 - 2014-08-22 04:15:06 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. .


So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy.


Is this correct?


No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture.


You have too said it ,might want to stop posting and actually read what you are typing, go back a few pages you said in two posts the payment for their articles on TMC is unidentified, then on the same page TMC paid their writers in ISK. You flip flop more then a fish out of water. At least stick to one side or the other for Christs sake