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Incursions were added as END GAME PVE. In the same line as the escalations in C6's.. ( WH's require Cap's and fewer numbers.. Incursions no Cap''s but higher numbers ).

They are NOT there for the new player. I'm sorry, but they aren't. Go fleet up with people and run missions till you have the SP.



Scout Sites, as described earlier in the thread, are going to be there for people to make isk while waiting for spots in larger fleets. They aren't going to be worth running just on their own. Though if CCP changed their thinking, and DID make them Viable, like they are trying to do with AS's, then that would be awesome.The more you can spread people out the better.

kinda harsh toward a newbro, but anyway.

I recall something about 'run them while you wait for higher incursion sites' but does that mean it's not meant for newbros? If so, my evaluation of them was completely wrong.

If they're meant for the same people running Vanguards and HQs, then yeah, they're fine. they're noticeably/slightly more difficult than level IV missions (with the exception of some level IVs if you let spawns accumulate).

I just took another look at CCP FoxFour's OP, it would seem yeah it's for bored Incursion people, and I was mistaken for mentioning newbros in my feedback. o7

[side note: not sure I would call Incursions 'end game PVE'.]

btw, you Incursion peeps work too hard for your ISK.

now that I don't have to feel guilty about getting all faction battleship about it, I'm going to fit up a vindicator, 3 nightmares, and a basilisk. I feel like I have a bone to pick with these scout sites, and I would like to knock one out of the park. bbialb.

what was your fit, by the way? just curious, I would like it for my records, if you don't mind sharing it.

I would love to share it, but I know it will get misconstrued, but remember this was for fun not for real EVE use.

[Ishtar]

3x Small Remote Armor Repairer II
Automated Targeting Unit I

Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy Cap Booster 400)
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
2x Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Internal Force Field Array I
4x Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II

5x Garde II
5x Warden II
5x Warrior II
2x Gecko


I had to much crap in my Orca when the last server update happened so they were Faction and Deadspace fit, not something you want to do on TQ as they wouldn't survive 5 catalyst. But I guess if you got the toys might as well play with them.

Edit: I know, Never armour and shield tank, the idea was to use the ASB's and if they broke then spider with the remote armour repairs. So don't tell me about the fail fits I don't care.

I had to lol.

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o7 thanks Goldiiee. I like your style, for the utility highs and the X-L ancie. [I also know who you are and I'm sure you have your reasons for incursion fits].

I have a question for you. is RR simply the way to do scout sites, due to the 5 ship payout limit? like, is bringing logistics simply not worth it? if scout sites are meant for existing incursion groups, does that mean the best combination of ships is the very same RR battleships used in higher level Incursion sites?

I would use 5 RR Nightmares, but I'm bringing a Vindicator because I think it will be fun. I'm also bringing a basilisk because it's my crutch / afk buffer for multiboxing. I see the incursion fits on eve-isn.com, and I'm using something slightly different. 2 energy transfers on the basi because Vindicator [doesn't have utility highs], and no basi buddy. I also had to go with T2 hardeners because Sisi, and double up.

I'm using Mega Pulse because DPS and tracking, and the rats are close enough, unless they all scatter (if they kite out of Scorch range I'll just call it a draw and **** off).

disclaimers aside, would you share whatever comes to mind regarind this plan I've come up with? I'm just trying to have fun / pwn a scout site (and reclaim my dignity), and I expect I'll accidentally trigger waves. but. maybe you could share some incursion insight regarding the effectiveness of some strategies over others. I'd be interested to hear it.

with links:

3 Mega Pulse nightmares; loaded with Multifrequency, loaded with Scorch
1 Vindicator
1 Basilisk
(Basi implants... HG-10 is left over from Ishtars, whatev. Talisman because I dunno. If it's nearly free, Snake would probably be better.)

[With F-23 remote sebos I could trade a cap transfer for a shield... but with so many reps in gang I'd rather have a ranged cap transfer. Republic Fleet LSE would be nice too, but special stuff / Sisi]

I also have a spare nightmare and basilisk on standby, but I probably won't make it on grid in time to keep myself from dying and feeling stupid. I just fitted them up cuz... I dunno. and I can't bring them in without distracting the rats.

as for ECM, if it only gets stronger til it lands, might as well just accept it (rather than dedicate modules to it. yeah i could stand to train those comps )

With practice I would start reducing tank, but compared to the Ishtars from yesterday, these Nightmares have 1/3 the speed, 3x the signature radius, and lower resists. the tank is just caution. I realize Incursion groups need to bring as much DPS as possible, and cut the tank down nothing (and this gang is nowhere near shiny incursion standard).

but regarding that:

I've heard that incursion groups require 80% omni resists. Do you achieve that with a single Pith-A type Invuln and a T1 Anti-EM rig on a Nightmare? Even under links I'm not getting those numbers in EFT (eve-isn fits)

---

BTW... regarding this message... how exactly do ships make the cutoff for top 5, between logi and DPS:



and it's a hard limit of 5, not a diminishing return thing beyond 5?

Well I am not Goldiiee but you can simply use a single Scimi or Oni, if it catches agro you need a ship with 1-2 remote reps to keep it alive, my preferred hulls for that are Vargur(with A type medium Pith) or Paladin(T2 large RR), simply because of the utility, spare target slots to keep a Logi locked(not really required with the tank on a normal Oni) and long RR runtime. The same thing works for VGs to and is highly preferable over pure RR BS, because it is less restraining on capacitor on the BS and adds tracking links.



Resist requirements depending on the group(some go more tanky than others) and the size of the site(VG need less than HQ). Lowest VG standard is probably something around 55%. I got 60% explosive on my one slot tanked armor NM after boosts as lowest resist, what gives 1478 sustained dps tank with a single Oni on the field and is enough for VGs from my experience dual boxing a solo logi. ISN isn't a particular tanky channel and they often fly on the low end when it comes to tank to spare more slots for other stuff.

A few days ago I had the pleasure to run some scout sites with other pilots on Singularity.

Our setup:
1 Basilisk, 2 Nightmares with Tachyons, 2 Machariels with 1400s

Long range guns are pretty much a must-have as otherwise you won't be able to hit the Vylades (orbit at 120 km) and Antems (orbit at 140 km). For the same reason there is no Vindicator: There is just not enough stuff in web range. I believe that this mix of prate faction battleships and T2 logi is a good representation of what is currently flown in other incursion sites.

So... a Propagande Center took us about 25 min. to complete. Maybe we got really unlucky with the spawns. Maybe we weren't paying as much attention to the site running as we could have. I am pretty sure that our fits were not optimized for these scout sites. Still, 3-4 times as long as a Vanguard site for a third of the payout - no one is going to run these while waiting for a Vanguard fleet to form. No one.



That a single Marauder is as fast as 4 pirate battleships leads me to believe that there is a huge difference between the sites and their seperate spawns. There doesn't seem to be any balance at all. Also, why is there a bomber (Lirsautton Parichaya) on grid, a ship that should only appear in the mothership site (you know, where there is an actual mothership to spew it out)? To me it seems like CCP took all the incursion rats, removed those that warp dirsupt and the battleships, threw the rest in a blender and that's how the new scout sites came to be.


CCP, please:
1. Remove the Arnons. A few jamming frigates are OK, but cruisers are simply overkill and make the scout sites harder than Vanguards in that regard.
2. Make the sites much, much shorter. If you want those sites to be run at all they must make at least 30m ISK/h (in my opinion). That is about half of what a slow Vanguard fleet (= all T1 battleships without fancy modules) makes. To do that you may have to remove 70-80% of the EHP in the sites.
3. Balance the sites. Make sure that every site takes roughly the same time to complete. Also please don't just throw seemingly random rats at us. In Vanguard sites you have shown us that you can do better (even though it took a few years to get there ).
4. Make sure that payout works properly. At one point I got a full payout even though there were 7 payable ships on grid and in the same fleet. I'm pretty sure something's not working as intended.