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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] K162 Signatures Appearing on First Jump

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-08-06 12:57:49 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey everyone! This thread is for all of your feedback and discussion surrounding the changes to K162 signature appearance that we discussed in our recently released dev blog.

:Edit:
We've made a significant update to the plan for this feature based on the excellent feedback provided by players in this thread so far.
You can find the update here.

Thanks and keep the feedback coming!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Traiori
Going Critical
#2 - 2014-08-06 14:43:47 UTC
Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?

Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on?
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#3 - 2014-08-06 14:43:59 UTC
There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.

This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally.
Viscis Breeze
Abrupt Decay
Deteriorated
#4 - 2014-08-06 14:45:22 UTC
Traiori wrote:
Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?

Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on?


Currently, when you initiate warp to a signature you spawn the K162 signature on the other side (able to be scanned).

Recruitment: http://bit.ly/1r4G5Pv Website: http://www.no-vacancies.net/ Channel: No Vacancies
Traiori
Going Critical
#5 - 2014-08-06 14:50:01 UTC
Viscis Breeze wrote:
Traiori wrote:
Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?

Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on?


Currently, when you initiate warp to a signature you spawn the K162 signature on the other side (able to be scanned).


I know that Adhocracy isn't as good as it used to be, but give me some credit. I meant under the proposed system, as giving feedback without this knowledge would be difficult at best :)
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2014-08-06 14:50:18 UTC
Traiori wrote:
Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?

Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on?
So the only change that has been made is to when the K162 signature is visible or scannable. Wormhole lifetime still begins as soon as someone initiates warp to its grid.

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Kadm
Catfish Gumbo
#7 - 2014-08-06 14:51:08 UTC
Necharo Rackham wrote:
There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.

This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally.


This is the only thing I'd worry about. W-space will become much less interconnected with this.
Traiori
Going Critical
#8 - 2014-08-06 14:54:49 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Traiori wrote:
Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?

Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on?
So the only change that has been made is to when the K162 signature is visible or scannable. Wormhole lifetime still begins as soon as someone initiates warp to its grid.


Then this change is also good. I like this change, it should stay. I think this is a good compromise between allowing us to find enemies and allowing enemies to flee before our fleets.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#9 - 2014-08-06 14:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
There are positive and negatives to this, the positive is that one still has control of when the hole opens.
The negative side to the issue is that in low occupancy holes or holes opening from kspace, we may see a mass reduction in the number of K162s

I would suggest that four hours after the signature spawn of the static meaning when it is available in the source system, even if unwarped to it becomes visible as a k999 until jumped, and visible from the both sides and useable. After it is jumped it restores to it's original designation.

Effects:- designation clearly identifies it's status.
No reduction overall in traffic.
No more never opening statics.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Jezza McWaffle
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#10 - 2014-08-06 14:59:25 UTC
We get alot of connections where people warp the hole and spawn it but not jump in to see where it leads to, under the new changes does this mean unless you jump through the hole the WH will NEVER spawn on the other side?

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#11 - 2014-08-06 15:00:19 UTC
Kadm wrote:
Necharo Rackham wrote:
There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.

This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally.


This is the only thing I'd worry about. W-space will become much less interconnected with this.


I have to agree with this.

I get what you are going for. You want to keep the discovery scanner up and you don't want to go back to the old system.

This is just patchwork trying to hobble that system together so its viable in wormhole space.
.... it is not.

1) Set it so that when a new wormhole appears, it spawns on both sides.
2) Don't show wormholes on the discovery scanner at all (make people probe out the system to find them).

You get more setup, more interaction, more varied gameplay. The old system worked for a reason.

You are not going to get people to give up on it.

Yaay!!!!
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#12 - 2014-08-06 15:00:55 UTC
Necharo Rackham wrote:
There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.

This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally.


A valid point - I guess adding some kind of timer that eventually spawns it anyhow would make this work in both directions - reducing the time someone has to respond to a new k162 if its being used as a means for hunting targets but without impacting on the connectivity aspect if its not immediately used as a tool for pvp.
Kadm
Catfish Gumbo
#13 - 2014-08-06 15:02:04 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Kadm wrote:
Necharo Rackham wrote:
There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.

This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally.


This is the only thing I'd worry about. W-space will become much less interconnected with this.


I have to agree with this.

I get what you are going for. You want to keep the discovery scanner up and you don't want to go back to the old system.

This is just patchwork trying to hobble that system together so its viable in wormhole space.
.... it is not.

1) Set it so that when a new wormhole appears, it spawns on both sides.
2) Don't show wormholes on the discovery scanner at all (make people probe out the system to find them).

You get more setup, more interaction, more varied gameplay. The old system worked for a reason.

You are not going to get people to give up on it.


I like this idea a lot. I actually prefer it just be implemented as signatures not show up on the discovery scanner, only anomalies. Otherwise, it will be too easy to differentiate and determine what signatures are wormholes.
Snakes-On-A-Plane
#14 - 2014-08-06 15:13:55 UTC
I like the idea.
However, I do see some other effects rising from this.

You can now ensure 100% that the static has not been activated by picketing the hole with a cloaky. Much easier than watching scans continually.

You will also be able to defend the hole against a connection with bubbles and decloak cans, etc.. - another interesting effect of the change.
Budrick3
Moira.
#15 - 2014-08-06 15:20:54 UTC
This idea should not be considered to have any merit.

Most null sec bears will warp to the Wormhole, see that it is going to c5 or etc, and say "I'll wait for another better connection."

This limits wormhole engagements in null sec and limits killing them in their safe rating haven. There are countless wormhole corps that hunt quite frequently in null sec and get carrier kills and etc.

This only limits new edens content on an already stressed game.

ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#16 - 2014-08-06 15:24:05 UTC
I think you should look at timers/ not applying this to K space wormholes. The vast majority of k spaces we find are K162s, and those will stop spawning since K-space residents rarely care about the WH, they see if its a shortcut, maybe goes where they want but rarely ever jump in.

Id hazard a guess that 90% of null--> WH space connections never open after this change, probably even higher.

Event Organizer of EVE North East
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-08-06 15:26:28 UTC
+1

A very good change indeed.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#18 - 2014-08-06 15:33:38 UTC
I agree with the above posters, though I think 4 hours is far, far too long. I would love to see the K162 spawn after 30 minutes or so.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Blobskillz McBlub
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-08-06 15:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Blobskillz McBlub
just for clarification, would this mean that if I never jump through my lets say low sec static in my C3, actually would be absolutely safe in my WH until a new signature pops up, because there would be no connections to my WH? I guess if that is so then it's nice for farming purposes, but would hurt K-Space connections a lot like others have said.
Newt BlackCompany
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-08-06 15:39:46 UTC
This will have the negative effect that people will warp to the wh's, if they see it's a 'dangerous unknown' or something else they don't want linked to their home hole, they just won't jump. Then the K162 link on the other side will never get opened. Also, unoccupied wh's will never have the k162's open, decreasing wh connectivity.

This can be fixed by putting in a 10 minute timer, after which the wh opens automatically.
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