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Distance that you're being ejected out of a wormhole depends on mass

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Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-08-03 14:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Simsung Padecain
It has come to my attention that CCP has another glorious feature making it's way into WH space. (currently on sisi)

The distance that your ship will be ejected out of a wormhole after you jump, is based on it's mass.
Capital ships go up to 40km off the wormhole!

I am very, very curious what's the thought process behind this change, because as a 2+ years old inhabitant of WH space, I can think of ONE positive aspect and numerous negative ones.

Positive:
No more combat rolling (there was counter play to it - going all in)

Negative:
Even more tedious finding active wormholes for fights / other activities
Less confidence in using capital ships in fights as they will almost surely get rolled out by the other party.
(Very rare occurence, but still) jumping 2 carriers possibly could eject them outside of rep range.
Less activity in chains / less ragerolling - less fights
Pretty much invincible scouts (if the distance for frigates also has changed, ejecting them at a distance will let them cloak up 100% of the time after jumping a hole without possibility of reliable counter play).
A fleet jumping a hole will possibly have an option to just moonwalk out of there. Bubbles are only this big.
Unacceptable "random" factor level. It's just impossible to find a reliable counterplay to this change.
(probably many, many more that I cannot think of at the moment)


If an entity doesn't want to fight you, they won't fight anyway, combat rolling was their only option to carry on whatever they had planned in the first place.
Adhocracy
#2 - 2014-08-03 15:03:14 UTC
I was struggling to think of a firm reason behind this change. It doesn't drive conflict: scouts are always cloaky in wormhole space and letting them spawn at cloaking-distance consistently means that they aren't going to get caught in the majority of scenarios (they already barely ever get caught as it is. "Catch the Cov Ops" is basically an art form). Rolling holes with active pilots in will now require you to be prepared to fight the inhabitants, which would defeat the purpose of rolling the hole in the first place, ragerolling will now take longer, committing caps to fights seems more risky, given that you now spawn at a random point in space away from the fight (which is nearly always at 0m).

I'd tempted to say that this is a bug on sisi, rather than a deliberate feature being brought into the game. Anyone got any discussion from fanfest or similar about it that I've just missed?
Exit Strategy..
#3 - 2014-08-03 15:03:36 UTC
Beaten to the punch, will modify my thread to keep it all in the same place.

This was mentioned at fanfest as a feature to encourage fights.

Want to go on record that I am 100% against this change. even if the range limit is shortened.

For PvP-based entities;
Ragerolling will take longer per hole.
Going baseballs deep with your own caps could be utterly useless due to where you spawn in relation to the fight.
Subcap fleets wouldn't be immune either, jumping into an already set up enemy fleet could see your own fleet scattered.
Catching someone on the other side of a wormhole would be harder.
Scout ships (already slippery little devils) would have their levels of slipperiness increased dramatically).

For PvE-based entities;
Implications here are obvious. But rolling wormholes would crazy dangerous (not that it already isn't)

Would this change see more fights in the immediate future? Probably as wormholes are rolled as smaller groups vacate wormholes.

This change benefits the biggest corps/alliances the most. And even then only in the short term.

The basic wormhole mechanics are great. In fact. it is why wormholers are still here.

Wormhole content is not dead, extreme measures are not required.

W-Space IS Best Space

Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-08-03 15:06:35 UTC
Traiori wrote:
.
I'd tempted to say that this is a bug on sisi, rather than a deliberate feature being brought into the game. Anyone got any discussion from fanfest or similar about it that I've just missed?


It was confirmed by a CSM member, I haven't asked for his permission to post his words here though.
L A Z E R H A W K S
#5 - 2014-08-03 15:08:06 UTC
Confirming: CCP hates wspace.
Exit Strategy..
#6 - 2014-08-03 15:12:08 UTC
For all those that asked CCP to interfere with W-Space. Words can not express the hatred.

I honestly thought this was one of "those" ideas when it was brought up here.

You know the ones you instantly file under - haha nice troll ... try again.

W-Space IS Best Space

Adhocracy
#7 - 2014-08-03 15:16:54 UTC
I'll add that Combat Rolling has a point to it as well: it means that smaller groups can take a fight for long enough to shove people out of their hole when they can't take it due to afk-POS spinning or to stop reinforcements from being added as a fight is prolonged.

Which given that the larger groups are running fleets that occasionally hit 40-50 people is almost an essential. Stopping reinforcements was a tactic in wormhole space that this would remove. Which means that groups without reinforcements will take less fights, I suppose.
#8 - 2014-08-03 15:22:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Hidden Fremen wrote:
Confirming: CCP hates wspace.

Truth level: over 9000

This is NOT the way to do it CCP. This won't help create interesting fights as no one is going to jump caps into a hostile setup fleet now because there is no way to predict positioning or whether they spawn close enough to support. You've handed yet another advantage to people (the larger groups) who didn't need it....... just like 00 hmmmmmm

[Sarcasm]GG CCP, GG[/Sarcasm]

I'm right behind you

WE FORM V0LTA
#9 - 2014-08-03 15:25:10 UTC
When connected to a pvp entity, who will now dare to jump into the other WH for a fight? Especially if it is their home system?

This is bad!!
Spatial Instability
#10 - 2014-08-03 15:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gunner GzR
I hope ccp is paying attention.

This is 100% wrong.

I can only echo what has been posted above by other Experienced WH pilots that have posted.

This will drive more people out of wh space and by this take away content. Corps that are less Confident in pvp and only fight because they can fight on a mass reduced wh or with there cap support will be less likely to fight.

Pvp corps will not want to jump a Fleet into another Fleet via A wh due to the scattering of the jump and caps possible spawning 40 km apart. Makes bumping carriers apart to easy for the “Defending” corp and isolating them to kill off.
Dreads will not be able to be in refit range of carriers.

Bad idea ccp very bad. I see No wormhole pilot liking this idea as it hurts all of us in the long run and will drive more pilots to get out of wh space or just cancel there subscriptions .

With the upstart of Star citizen which is a big buzz in your community now. You should not be doing this as it will reduce the number of pilots in game

One possible ideas to help conflict would be to install a class 7 wh with capital sleepers in sights, no moons and a 10 billion wh with multi statics to incress the chance of someone seeing you farming it.

Just my thoughts here but every person i talk to Dislikes this Change

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please

#11 - 2014-08-03 15:32:08 UTC
Gunner GzR wrote:
...due to the scattering of the jump and caps possible spawning 40 km apart.


Worst case scenario, 80k
WE FORM V0LTA
#12 - 2014-08-03 15:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
Drama Timeline established:

HK on reddit
Meanwhile on the lovely Island Island
Myself included

Only wormholes goes


TLDR

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#13 - 2014-08-03 15:33:29 UTC
pls no CCP
skill urself
#14 - 2014-08-03 15:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Cyberdyne
Hi CCP,

This is a formal friendly letter to

*snip* Profanity removed. - ISD Cyberdyne

It's clear that nobody at CCP actually plays the game in wormholes so why don't you just take your nose out of stuff you know nothing about. Pretty much every single change made to wormholes recently has been in the wrong direction, so feel free to change your thinking on w-space because you clearly aren't on the correct train of thought.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#15 - 2014-08-03 15:38:43 UTC
taking away an essential tool for smaller groups to even take a fight: less fights
taking away expos where you can't defend your rolling group: less fights

less people in wormhole space: even less fights

no reason we get 90% of our fights in nullsec jesus
Spatial Instability
#16 - 2014-08-03 15:42:34 UTC
100% against this change. This doesnt increase content, it slows it down for those who rageroll for it.
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2014-08-03 15:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: corbexx
ok so some stuff is up on reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2ci5ue/dear_ccp_stop_fucking_with_wormholes_please/

I'll be totally honest I'm not sure what I can and can't say about stuff (i'm checking now on skype).

What would really help is for people to discuss it and put feed back in a calm and meaning full way. Raging and calling people names won't help me at all.

what i mean here is say why you like or dislike it, what effects you think it will have will it be good or bad, give reasons. stuff like "this is terrible RAWRRAWRRAWRRAWR" won't help and will just get in the way.


I see several issues.

it makes a boring job rolling holes more boring.
This favours bigger groups over smaller groups.
C2 to C4 orcas could be a issue.

It probably wont affect farmers at all cos if they connect to a big group they will just not bother to roll and log.


Chitsa Jason wrote:
Hey Corby,

I would like to pint out a few ideas. Some of those have been pointed out previously but I think it is important to mentions them. So here is my list of small things.

18. Make it so that the higher of the ship mass the further it spawns from the wormhole by jumping through. Would increase the ability to catch rolling ships, would make rage rolling slower.


This didn't make it on to my little things sheet btw.
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-08-03 15:44:31 UTC
Can a Dev please elaborate wether this is a bug or actually intended - which I hope it is not.
Now I usually don't complain that much about changes that are being made to w-space and I don't like throwing phrases like 'this will break wormholes' around, but I am sure that this will completely disrupt how wormholes work.

So please, with the recent attention given to this subforum by the devs, please let us know what your intention is and why you'd like to see this change.
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-08-03 15:44:31 UTC
Whoever at CCP came up with this idea, please respond here with why you are doing it.

thanks
Exit Strategy..
#20 - 2014-08-03 15:44:40 UTC
I had to check to see if this was an April Fool's joke because I couldn't believe such a thing would really be implemented.
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