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Distance that you're being ejected out of a wormhole depends on mass

First post First post First post
Author
Vasyamba
Dark Echo Club
#21 - 2014-08-03 15:46:30 UTC
Lol CCP, i dont even live in wormholes and this sounds terrible.
Annie Gardet
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#22 - 2014-08-03 15:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Annie Gardet
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#23 - 2014-08-03 15:48:30 UTC
Zara Arran wrote:
When connected to a pvp entity, who will now dare to jump into the other WH for a fight? Especially if it is their home system?

This is bad!!


It would change the meta which is not exactly the same as the end of all life. I thought everyone was tired of t3 fleet as the fleet for every occasion? This change sounds very similar to jumping through a regional gate into another gang and that happens every day in other regions of space. Scouts get killed doing it also although it is a bit more difficult to catch them. It might even be more fun as it would greatly expand the number of viable doctrines. More options is usually more interesting. Perhaps the numbers used for spawn distance are off but conceptually I kinda like it.
Zara Arran
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#24 - 2014-08-03 15:49:50 UTC
Wouldn't it make more sense to have it the other way around? High mass being spawned less far, and the smaller ships further? This would be less bad at the least...
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#25 - 2014-08-03 15:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Angsty Teenager
I just wish that CCP would actually play the game in wormholes and base their opinion of what needs to be done off that rather than sitting and listening to CSM candidates who have no idea what they're talking about (in this case I'm specifically talking about Chitsa).

I just want to slam my fist to my desk any time I see stupid changes being made w-space just willy nilly (I'm looking at you CCP FoxFour). "OH ITS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE GAME, LETS TAKE IT OUT" They just don't even pay any attention to balance or meta-game implications.

If you really want to have mass have an impact, why not apply to in k-space to gates? So frigs can land at like 5 km, and BS at like 30 km. Even better, apply it to cynos. Titans at 100 km, supers at 50 km, carriers/dreads at 5-10 km. OH WAIT, that won't happen because everybody knows it would ruin everything from gang pvp with triage to huge supercap fights. I just cannot even fathom the thought process of the supposed veteran game designers at CCP. How long have you been doing this? Why can't you get it right for once, or even better, if you don't know if you can, how about you go and do research by playing the game.

If the reasons why this change is bad have to be explained to you, then you shouldn't be in charge of making the decisions on gameplay changes in W-space. This is very very very clear when EVREY SINGLE PERSON in this thread is saying the change is bad. Are they all extremely analytic metagamers? NO THEY'RE NOT, they're normal wormhole players. That alone tells me that whoever is in charge of wormholes at the moment has no clue what they're doing and does not even play the game in the area they're in charge of designing.

Baffling.
Torval Shank
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-08-03 15:50:26 UTC
This is a bad idea for all of the reasons mentioned above. Rolling holes with caps will now be so risky, that most won't even bother to attempt it; just run more battleships through it. Less risk to caps, less content for everyone.

You'll NEVER catch a cloaky scout again. It's already nigh impossible; now it really will be.

I agree that this will drive some groups completely out of WH space, which is already pretty desolate as it is.

100% against this change.
Freya Myst
Negative Density
#27 - 2014-08-03 15:50:48 UTC
I DO not acknowledge this .. as it would RUIN WH space.. Id suggest reversing it at least with bigger mass closer u are.. but having caps ending up 40km off a wh.. thats just disappointing.. maybe allow frigs and such end up at further range would make more sense..
Janus Nanzikambe
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#28 - 2014-08-03 15:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Janus Nanzikambe
Do
Not
Want
Lord Blacksmith
Midnight Conclave
Weaponized Boredom.
#29 - 2014-08-03 15:52:19 UTC
Corbexx, as a career wormholer, the problem is that this is a breaking enough change that the first response, a little bit kneejerk I will admit, is to sigh and unsubscribe, because it's actually pretty hard to think that folks who thought that

a) this was a good idea
b) was perfectly fine to just toss in unannounced

are going to not kill w-space in some way, and I really don't want to watch the trainwreck - I'd prefer the years of good memories. You're going to have to work through a ton of people's pure white-hot, unmitigated rage before real civilized discourse becomes linkely. This will take time.
Laurici
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-08-03 15:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Laurici
Fights like the one we just had with exit strategy would and could never happen with a system implemented like this.

If the objective is to stop capital fights in w-space, you've hit the nail on the head. Why you would want that, is a separate issue.
Zara Arran
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#31 - 2014-08-03 15:54:13 UTC
Kynric wrote:
Zara Arran wrote:
When connected to a pvp entity, who will now dare to jump into the other WH for a fight? Especially if it is their home system?

This is bad!!


It would change the meta which is not exactly the same as the end of all life. I thought everyone was tired of t3 fleet as the fleet for every occasion? This change sounds very similar to jumping through a regional gate into another gang and that happens every day in other regions of space. Scouts get killed doing it also although it is a bit more difficult to catch them. It might even be more fun as it would greatly expand the number of viable doctrines. More options is usually more interesting. Perhaps the numbers used for spawn distance are off but conceptually I kinda like it.


I am all for making things more risky, I don't mind change.. when its a good thing. But in my opinion, letting caps spawn 40k off the WH and two caps being 80k off etc I think will stagnate WHs more. Thats why I wonder if letting smaller ships spwn further and heavier ships spawn less far isnt that better. It iwll increase risk, but not to a point that people wont fight no more or stop rolling. Especially for smaller groups, this not a good change.
Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
#32 - 2014-08-03 15:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Hatshepsut IV
corbexx wrote:



Chitsa Jason wrote:
Hey Corby,

I would like to pint out a few ideas. Some of those have been pointed out previously but I think it is important to mentions them. So here is my list of small things.

18. Make it so that the higher of the ship mass the further it spawns from the wormhole by jumping through. Would increase the ability to catch rolling ships, would make rage rolling slower.


This didn't make it on to my little things sheet btw.



This is the last thing I could ever think to want for w-space. I'm glad your against this then, I knew I voted for you for a reason. ;)


Rolling/closing holes would become almost impossibly dangerous for small groups with this change. Using orcas would be completely out of the question which is a double nut shot to smaller low class groups as that's basically your only option for rolling a hole in a efficient/speedy manner.

This would basically remove the ability to bring a triage carrier into a fight with null people(or wh for that matter). It's basically handing a free kill to put a carrier 40k off a hole if your going to get. 30 domi blob or other things bridged into you.


Part of what makes w-space so unique and fun is the polarity mechanic and ability to jump holes. It's not a simple game of bring more in reserve get them to aggress on a gate(wormhole?) .

CCP whoever told you this change would make w-space more noob friendly is either outright lieing to you or just plain going trolling you.

Public Channel | Un.Welcome

ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#33 - 2014-08-03 15:56:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ExookiZ
Pros: This will make ganking people rolling WHs easier

Cons: Rolling a WH will take forever
People ( especially farmers) may be less likely to just roll Whs given the difficulty and just log when scary K16s pop up

I am assuming the numbers will change so ill reserve saying I definitely support, or am definitely against.

I like the idea, but 40+ km is enough that its going to be more of a PITA than a aid in ganking.

Event Organizer of EVE North East

D3m0n sam
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2014-08-03 15:57:12 UTC
Traiori
Going Critical
#35 - 2014-08-03 15:59:37 UTC
corbexx wrote:

What would really help is for people to discuss it and put feed back in a calm and meaning full way. Raging and calling people names won't help me at all.



For all of our sake's sanity, I'll summarise everything that I've seen mentioned about it:

- Ragerolling (one of the primary methods of finding content) will be slowed down
- Capital rolling (one of the primary methods of smaller groups controlling fights against larger groups) will be completely removed
- Commiting capitals to fights will be impossible, or at least highly stupid. Archons will spawn away from support groups. Dreads will spawn away from Archons (which they use to refit into combat fits)
- Sub-C5 rolling will be ridiculous. Orcas/Battleships will be easier to point. Orcas are a big enough problem.
- Rolling (at all) will be slowed down. You'll have to build up hole control outside of the immediate hole to prevent people from tackling your caps.

This isn't going to make wormholes any more attractive to new people, which is what we need. The problem with wormholes isn't the mechanics. The problem is the population density. We need more small-mid sized groups, and this doesn't favour them at all and removes one of the few things that they can do to balance out the 30-50 man gangs that are starting to appear in wormsec.

I don't understand the intent of this change. I can't see what this brings to the game. At the moment, when a new wormhole appears in our home system we have what is essentially a flowchart.

1. Establish where the wormhole is
2. Establish who lives in the wormhole
3. Check how many people they have online, compared to how many we have online
4. Decide if we can take a fight
5. If yes, form up and bait
6. If no, form up to roll their hole
7. Once fight is over, roll hole to find new content
8. Go back to sig watch

This change removes Step 6 from the chain, and replaces it with "If no, POS spin until they establish hole control to roll it". That isn't a healthy change. No game should be based around AFK'ing for four hours and doing nothing. Wormholes already have problems with content, and creating a situation in which corps can't get rid of blocks to content (people that they can't deal with because they're too big or because they don't have people online to deal with it) will make it even more tedious.

Fix the problems with wormholes first. The terrible POS mechanics, for instance, and the necessity on caps to make C5/C6 more profitable than C4 holes. Increase the number of random holes further: bigger chains means more availability of content. We've asked for short-duration holes to be a thing, and I'd love to see short-duration high-mass holes to do J->J links. But this isn't the thread to talk about solutions, it's a thread to talk about how bad this idea is.

Larger groups want to be able to rage roll, smaller groups want to be able to counter roll. Who does this benefit?
Notmo
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#36 - 2014-08-03 16:00:19 UTC
I could get behind this if it was applied to capital ships jumping to a cyno too.

Mostly because the null rage would be awesome.




Given that half the wormholes we spawn into are empty, I can't see the logic behind this change. It just means everyone has to take longer to rage roll anything.

Rolling capitals will be fit for align time, be webbed up to a perch and back down again instead of just jumping back through.

Forget about ever jumping into another group of hostiles.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#37 - 2014-08-03 16:00:28 UTC
Zara Arran wrote:
Kynric wrote:
Zara Arran wrote:
When connected to a pvp entity, who will now dare to jump into the other WH for a fight? Especially if it is their home system?

This is bad!!


It would change the meta which is not exactly the same as the end of all life. I thought everyone was tired of t3 fleet as the fleet for every occasion? This change sounds very similar to jumping through a regional gate into another gang and that happens every day in other regions of space. Scouts get killed doing it also although it is a bit more difficult to catch them. It might even be more fun as it would greatly expand the number of viable doctrines. More options is usually more interesting. Perhaps the numbers used for spawn distance are off but conceptually I kinda like it.


I am all for making things more risky, I don't mind change.. when its a good thing. But in my opinion, letting caps spawn 40k off the WH and two caps being 80k off etc I think will stagnate WHs more. Thats why I wonder if letting smaller ships spwn further and heavier ships spawn less far isnt that better. It iwll increase risk, but not to a point that people wont fight no more or stop rolling. Especially for smaller groups, this not a good change.

Perhaps the numbers are off, perhaps smaller should spawn further instead or perhaps everyone should be in a fixed radius distance, but the mere idea of changing spawns to be further out does not sound terrible. In fact I can think of lots of interesting advantages.
Beffah
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-08-03 16:01:21 UTC
Dear CCP,

Are you seriously trying to make this game COMPLETELY unplayable? What was the reasoning behind this crackpot idea? Because seriously, that's what it is: literally pants-on-head-********. Do any of you spend any time in wormholes whatsoever, as a normal account/player? Its clear you don't, because this potentially breaks wormholes.

As the people before me have expressed (rather eloquently, I might add) this can really only lead to the stagnation of wormholes. So much combat comes into play when you have caps on holes, and a random-distant spawn point is going to lead risk-averse groups into not committing caps, full-stop.

Wormholes aren't broken (comparitively speaking) - stop trying to fix them. Instead, please focus your attention on things that DO need fixing: POS mechanics, corporation mechanics, sovereignty, the still-soul-crushing new player experience.
Maverick Capasso
Fun Police
#39 - 2014-08-03 16:01:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Maverick Capasso
-1 Interesting concept, but it seems like it will just discourage PvP in WH space. We cant YOLO caps into null now b/c when they cyno in five titans to drive be DD we can't hop back to saftey. If we wanted to fight the blob we would live in nullsec. Zzzzzzz
O'nira
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-08-03 16:03:10 UTC
think i might leave whs if this change goes through or join a blob. basically the only 2 choices if i want to have any control of the content i get.