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Crius Feedback

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Qinby
ImNo6
#461 - 2014-07-28 23:29:28 UTC
Tiberius Zol wrote:
I am no capital industrialist but i do some small / medscale industrial stuff.. and i sympathise with some capital bpo holders here...

one of the questions before crius was: "what happens to the BPO it its perfect now and below ME10" The answer from CCP (i believe it was CCP Greyscale) was: "in this case it will be perfect also when crius hits".

Now, after the release of crius we see several BPOs which are not perfect anymore..

In my case i have only to research a few weeks to get most of my BPOs perfect again.. (some exceptions of course with several months research needed)...

The Point is: CCP said.. all perfect BPOs before crius will be perfect after crius again... and this is simply not true.



Dont Think he said perfect think the quote was "not worse in most cases"
Then its up to interpretation.

What we did (the corp) we read the dev bloggs and put every Blueprint below ME 10 (if possible) in research since it was promised that when finnished they will convert according to the crius conversion "table" if the job was installed pre Crius.

Like the ME +6 TE +6 conversion of Tech 2 "we invented like there was no tommorow.
And seeing how it turned out we might have been right Lol

Rgds

Will propably sort itself out in the end....
Liam Kneeson
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#462 - 2014-07-28 23:42:56 UTC
Would love to be able to choose to pay for POS jobs with a personal wallet. Would solve a lot of extra steps of moving money around.

Was very surprised that you could only bid on teams using a personal wallet. Seems to be a disconnect.
McRea
Tarnak inc.
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#463 - 2014-07-29 01:39:21 UTC
Drone Avionics skill guys. Update please.
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
Controlled Chaos
#464 - 2014-07-29 03:18:32 UTC
Dally Lama wrote:
Are people really arguing that ME 10 should not be better than ME 8?

Of course it should be. If ME 8 BPOs were offering the same result as ME 10 BPOs in the past, that is insanely stupid and it's a good thing they changed it.

Seems you guys are complaining that it will take time and $$$ investment to get the BPO to 10. That makes sense... why should it be received for free? Other players made the effort to get it to 10, you should too.
Noticed that the job cost installation increases apply to starbases too. I think this is rather illogical and further hurts the motivations to use a starbase. In my opinion it should be adjusted so starbases only require the base cost, and never increased based on system activity.


You were one of the people who obviously didn't understand the previous system.
The old system reduced loss by half of the remaining waste per level of ME. So ME 1 had only 50% waste ME 2 has 25% waste, ME 3 had 12.5% waste ME 4 had 6.125% waste ME 5 had 3.06125% ME 6 had ~1.5% ME 7 had -0.75% ME 8 had 0.375% ME 9 had .18525% ME 10 had ~0.1% ME 11 had ~.05% ME 12 had .0025% etc etc
So for a lot of BPOs there was an optimum level of ME where another level of research wouldn't reduce your actual loss by any tangible amount. For anything over about ME 10 you needed to have a requirement for millions of a particular item for it to be worth researching, (yes I know Battleships took millions of tritanium extra research helped some there).
So in fact lots of BPOs were over-researched because people didn't understand that the additional ME levels did absolutely nothing to improve the efficiency of the BPO. They just thought a higher ME number was better. Which it wasn't.
Now they are being rewarded for their idiocy...
Anyways prior to the patch research, while time consuming wasn't game changing in its effects on producers. Now the last few levels of ME can take 3-6 months per level and cost in the hundreds to over a billion isk per level. That has drastically changed how things work. So me functionally the same BPO pre patch is now over a year or research and a billion or two isk worth of research behind another one post patch. It would take decades of productions after paying for the additional research to make back up the investment on the BPO. All this coming from CCP saying your BPOs will be stay functionally the same after the patch. They obviously didn't understand their own system very well.
It boils down to CCP rewarding sub-optimal play pre patch with nearly infinite barriers to entry post patch on capital level production. So the players who learned the systems are being punished for playing optimally. And don't tell me I knew the patch was coming so I should have been researching all of my BPOs to get up to the level needed for ME 10. I was, my high sec research POS was constantly full of BPOs being researched to get them over the max level. I just didn't have enough time to get all of them done. Plus anyone new to EVE is years behind in research and tens of billions of isk behind now.
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
Controlled Chaos
#465 - 2014-07-29 03:23:22 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
Krystyn wrote:
Before the patch all of my freighter BPOs were optimal and competitive compared to everyone else. Also the time and cost to improve BPOs was still significant roughly a month per single level of research and the isk cost was relatively low. The main cost was time you spent not using your BPO. Now the costs are astronomically high in both isk and time to improve your BPO to the optimum level.


IMO, that's perfectly in-line with EVE's design philosophy.

You get the bulk of the advantage in a short amount of time, and optimization to "perfect" requires specialization/focus.

The high end industrialist (excepting those who already have ME10/TE20 BPOs) has to decide "do I spend my time researching this archon to ME10? Or is my money better spent on something else?"

A player having to decide that is what makes up industrial gameplay in EVE.

You missed it. I was optimal. Patch occurs and BAM!! I'm sub optimal and not by a little bit. a LOT bit(6-9 months and billion isk) behind to the point of not bothering to try to catch up. Also my research POS doesn't work anymore either so my best method to catch up also killed by the patch. Follow me yet?
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
#466 - 2014-07-29 03:31:24 UTC
Qinby wrote:
BogWopit wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
* The client noticeably freezes when loading the various industry tabs on a 3.6Ghz 3630, GTX 580 4GB OC with 32GB of 1600 Mhz RAM. I have many thousand of BPCs for when I was doing invention, it seems loading them all makes the client cry.

* Agree with a need to remove the giant tool at the top when I just want to view my jobs.

* The dark grey on even darker grey for the in-use blueprints is neigh unreadable. There needs to be another way to show that a blueprint is unavailable beyond giving me eye strain.

* When selecting to stop a job, the button changes to 'Confirm' but there is no cancel button. You can change the button back by clicking on another blueprint, but there needs to be an equally prominent cancel button.



QFT

Large amounts of copies in various cans mixed in with originals in other cans are causing a severe decrease in client performance. Even when you have filtered down to the prints you need the act of selecting / dragging and dropping becomes very slow. I'm talking up to 10 seconds to register that a bp has been selected and display the options for the print.

I like the changes in terms of look, not feeling the functionality from a copy perspective. And I really don't like the idea of having to pay to copy blueprints in my own pos. I've yet to study the costs, where the ISK is going and how the scaling will affect me so correct me if I'm wrong but it's a bit of a kick in the balls.



Would say that if I understand this new thing (Crius)... It will solve itself...

Having thousands of BPO's (vey few have), having thousands of BPC, common among people who invent BUT
Nowadays instead of making large ammounts of 1 run BPC you make 20,50,300 run BPC (for hulls) depending on size/Time since every invention only decrease the BPC with one copy.

In other Words NO USE FOR THOUSANDS OF BPC and like all folders (even on local pc) have a hierarchy and not to much in every folder, saves loading time and confusion.

rgds


I really like this aspect of Crius. My only regret is that there is no way to consolidate all of these pre-Crius 5-10-15 run BPCs into single 60 run BPCs.
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#467 - 2014-07-29 05:17:20 UTC
Liam Kneeson wrote:
Would love to be able to choose to pay for POS jobs with a personal wallet. Would solve a lot of extra steps of moving money around.

Was very surprised that you could only bid on teams using a personal wallet. Seems to be a disconnect.


Not only that but why are POS owners paying to use their own equipment anyway? I'm fueling and I also paid for the POS.. why should I have to grant everyone wallet access in order just to use corp owned equipment.

Is CCP going to be looking in to this issue?
BogWopit
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#468 - 2014-07-29 07:13:04 UTC
Qinby wrote:
BogWopit wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
* The client noticeably freezes when loading the various industry tabs on a 3.6Ghz 3630, GTX 580 4GB OC with 32GB of 1600 Mhz RAM. I have many thousand of BPCs for when I was doing invention, it seems loading them all makes the client cry.

* Agree with a need to remove the giant tool at the top when I just want to view my jobs.

* The dark grey on even darker grey for the in-use blueprints is neigh unreadable. There needs to be another way to show that a blueprint is unavailable beyond giving me eye strain.

* When selecting to stop a job, the button changes to 'Confirm' but there is no cancel button. You can change the button back by clicking on another blueprint, but there needs to be an equally prominent cancel button.



QFT

Large amounts of copies in various cans mixed in with originals in other cans are causing a severe decrease in client performance. Even when you have filtered down to the prints you need the act of selecting / dragging and dropping becomes very slow. I'm talking up to 10 seconds to register that a bp has been selected and display the options for the print.

I like the changes in terms of look, not feeling the functionality from a copy perspective. And I really don't like the idea of having to pay to copy blueprints in my own pos. I've yet to study the costs, where the ISK is going and how the scaling will affect me so correct me if I'm wrong but it's a bit of a kick in the balls.


Would say that if I understand this new thing (Crius)... It will solve itself...

Having thousands of BPO's (vey few have), having thousands of BPC, common among people who invent BUT
Nowadays instead of making large ammounts of 1 run BPC you make 20,50,300 run BPC (for hulls) depending on size/Time since every invention only decrease the BPC with one copy.

In other Words NO USE FOR THOUSANDS OF BPC and like all folders (even on local pc) have a hierarchy and not to much in every folder, saves loading time and confusion.

rgds


I understand, and for inventors yes it might go away, pack producers on the other hand, may continue to suffer as you cannot split a 5000 run copy between x number of packs. I also understand the cost scaling a bit better since my last post. Still a kick in the nuts adding the scc cost to the cost of running a pos, but can also see the affect it will have, make people spread out to find an equilibrium in the price index, isk sink, force those on tight enough margins into low sec where the SCI is lower, drive conflict etc etc, the last two things industrialists most likely care very little for and will leave an acid taste in their mouths.

B
Mowl Jita
Industry Service Agency
#469 - 2014-07-29 10:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mowl Jita
Krystyn wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
Krystyn wrote:
Before the patch all of my freighter BPOs were optimal and competitive compared to everyone else. Also the time and cost to improve BPOs was still significant roughly a month per single level of research and the isk cost was relatively low. The main cost was time you spent not using your BPO. Now the costs are astronomically high in both isk and time to improve your BPO to the optimum level.


IMO, that's perfectly in-line with EVE's design philosophy.

You get the bulk of the advantage in a short amount of time, and optimization to "perfect" requires specialization/focus.

The high end industrialist (excepting those who already have ME10/TE20 BPOs) has to decide "do I spend my time researching this archon to ME10? Or is my money better spent on something else?"

A player having to decide that is what makes up industrial gameplay in EVE.

You missed it. I was optimal. Patch occurs and BAM!! I'm sub optimal and not by a little bit. a LOT bit(6-9 months and billion isk) behind to the point of not bothering to try to catch up. Also my research POS doesn't work anymore either so my best method to catch up also killed by the patch. Follow me yet?

i am fully with you my dread bpos are all uselesse for patch the where optimal no i have no time and billions of isk to research them to optimum.
morros me6 naglfar me8 and phoenix me8 in old style me means i have nearly 15 bpos way of beeing perfect.
the carrier and freighter bpos too.
only the cap components bpos are no perfect. old the where me200 and pe50
i can follow your argmuments and i stopp paying accounts. i have 300b isk in cap bpos but there worse ****...for patch they where perfect.
Keyran Tyler
Bionesis Technologies
#470 - 2014-07-29 11:30:09 UTC
Senn Denroth wrote:
Liam Kneeson wrote:
Would love to be able to choose to pay for POS jobs with a personal wallet. Would solve a lot of extra steps of moving money around.

Was very surprised that you could only bid on teams using a personal wallet. Seems to be a disconnect.


Not only that but why are POS owners paying to use their own equipment anyway? I'm fueling and I also paid for the POS.. why should I have to grant everyone wallet access in order just to use corp owned equipment.

Is CCP going to be looking in to this issue?


May or may not.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4851647#post4851647
Raphael Asanari
pricorp
#471 - 2014-07-29 11:40:16 UTC
McRea wrote:
Drone Avionics skill guys. Update please.


Do not expect an update, CCP have gone into turtle mode just like after every single bad update. 7 days and no fix to a simple thing is ridiculous.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#472 - 2014-07-29 12:28:54 UTC
If I experiment with different decryptors in the UI and do an info on the output invention BPC - shouldn't it show different material values for those decryptors that modify ME??
Joseph Soprano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#473 - 2014-07-29 13:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Joseph Soprano
Gospadin wrote:
Krystyn wrote:
Before the patch all of my freighter BPOs were optimal and competitive compared to everyone else. Also the time and cost to improve BPOs was still significant roughly a month per single level of research and the isk cost was relatively low. The main cost was time you spent not using your BPO. Now the costs are astronomically high in both isk and time to improve your BPO to the optimum level.


IMO, that's perfectly in-line with EVE's design philosophy.

You get the bulk of the advantage in a short amount of time, and optimization to "perfect" requires specialization/focus.

The high end industrialist (excepting those who already have ME10/TE20 BPOs) has to decide "do I spend my time researching this archon to ME10? Or is my money better spent on something else?"

A player having to decide that is what makes up industrial gameplay in EVE.


Err. No. That's is wrong, post Crius the bulk of the benefit is to get the to 'perfect' below that there are a lot of blueprints that are just trash. To get the bulk of the benefit you have to stick them in research for a couple of years and pay at a cost of billions of isk and a wasted slot .

'A player having to decide' - the decisions were made by CCP not the players. Who knows during two years while the blueprint was in research CCP may have change the rules again which is a very real possibility!
Joseph Soprano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#474 - 2014-07-29 13:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Joseph Soprano
Double Post
Qinby
ImNo6
#475 - 2014-07-29 15:09:44 UTC
Pheusia wrote:
Bug report it.

I mean unless you think flouncing on the forums will be more effective, I don't know?



Did get contact with other capsulers with same problem.
Always nice to know "your not alone" and that it is not a specific Blueprint it seems to happen all kinds of Tech 1 hulls (not Tech 2... as far as I know).

This is obviously the only way to get feedback..... (unfortunately...)

Interesting fact... the most popular Tech 2 cruiser is the Ishtar (at the moment) they are a Tech 2 version of the of the Vexor (my stuck BPO's)

The market for vexor's is about 300 pcs/day.
Today ther are 0 Vexors in Jita and less than 70 pcs in The Forge.
This could indicate 2 things...

1. This is a very common problem that have been "left unsolved" for about a week.
2. The Tech 2 version might reach an "all time high" in a day or two. (not a bad thing for us...)

Rgds
Galmalmin
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#476 - 2014-07-29 16:25:56 UTC
Qinby wrote:
What happend with invention using decryptors?

This worked after deploying crius but stopped working aprox 27/7.

When installing invention job with decryptor (in this case Incognito Accelerant Run +1 ME +2 TE +10) the Industry UI gives the wrong info on produced BPC.

In all cases im talking about inventing an Ishtar (Heavy Assault Cruiser).

Invention without decryptor is said to produce a BPC with ME-2 and TE -4 (According to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/).

This is slightly confusing as well since in my World ME-2 and TE -4 should mean u need -2*1% (2% MORE MATERIAL) and -4*2%(8% MORE TIME).

IN THIS CASE IT SEEMS TO MEAN ME 2 AND TE 2 wich produces a BPC that uses 2% less material and 4% less time AND THAT IS THE RESULT YOU GET WHEN YOU INVENT WITHOUT DECRYPTOR.

THERE SEEMS TO BE A SLIGHT CONFUSION BETWEEN THE ME/TE VALUE AND WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE % OF EFFECT IT GIVES.
THERE ALSO SEEMS TO BE A CONFUSION ABOUT WHEN THE VALUE SHOULD BE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.

AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND THERE IS NEVER A NEGATIVE ME/TE VALUE on a BPO/BPC (a positive ME/TE is Always a reduction so using a "-" sign is only confusing)

My conclusion of the "terminology" is that when talking about Blueprint research it is ME and TE meaning the max value is ME 10 (10%) reduction in material and TE 10 (20%) reduction in time.

When you talk about decryptors IT IS NOT ME AND TE IT IS % (otherwise why give a decryptor TE +10 since you get 4 without decryptor add 10 and you get TE 14 and no Blueprint can have more than 10)



The right info using a decryptor (Icognito Accelerant) should on succesful invention be, Runs 2 ME 4 (4% reduction) and TE 7 (14% reduction).

This is the result I got until yesterday (27/7).

Then this happened....
When installingt tje job i got the right info "Outcome" ME 4% TE 14% and 2 runs BUT when i look at "job in progress" and check the outcome it shows ME 2% (ME 1) and TE 4% (TE 2) and 1 run.

In other Words it seems to disregard the decryptor.
What it will deliver I dont know yet....

A small suggestion:

Scrap the ME/TE value and change them to % meaning making the Max values for a BPO/BPC ME10% and TE 20% (why the conversion to %?) "should be simple".

Stop Writing +/- when it regards ME/TE (cant realy see the Point) and declare all values regarding ME/TE are positive and they are "amount of reduction".

Looking forvard to feedback.


Same Issue. Thought It Was Just Me.
Galmalmin
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#477 - 2014-07-29 16:27:41 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Qinby wrote:
What happend with invention using decryptors?

This worked after deploying crius but stopped working aprox 27/7.

When installing invention job with decryptor (in this case Incognito Accelerant Run +1 ME +2 TE +10) the Industry UI gives the wrong info on produced BPC.

In all cases im talking about inventing an Ishtar (Heavy Assault Cruiser).

Invention without decryptor is said to produce a BPC with ME-2 and TE -4 (According to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/).

This is slightly confusing as well since in my World ME-2 and TE -4 should mean u need -2*1% (2% MORE MATERIAL) and -4*2%(8% MORE TIME).

IN THIS CASE IT SEEMS TO MEAN ME 2 AND TE 2 wich produces a BPC that uses 2% less material and 4% less time AND THAT IS THE RESULT YOU GET WHEN YOU INVENT WITHOUT DECRYPTOR.

THERE SEEMS TO BE A SLIGHT CONFUSION BETWEEN THE ME/TE VALUE AND WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE % OF EFFECT IT GIVES.
THERE ALSO SEEMS TO BE A CONFUSION ABOUT WHEN THE VALUE SHOULD BE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.

AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND THERE IS NEVER A NEGATIVE ME/TE VALUE on a BPO/BPC (a positive ME/TE is Always a reduction so using a "-" sign is only confusing)

My conclusion of the "terminology" is that when talking about Blueprint research it is ME and TE meaning the max value is ME 10 (10%) reduction in material and TE 10 (20%) reduction in time.

When you talk about decryptors IT IS NOT ME AND TE IT IS % (otherwise why give a decryptor TE +10 since you get 4 without decryptor add 10 and you get TE 14 and no Blueprint can have more than 10)



The right info using a decryptor (Icognito Accelerant) should on succesful invention be, Runs 2 ME 4 (4% reduction) and TE 7 (14% reduction).

This is the result I got until yesterday (27/7).

Then this happened....
When installingt tje job i got the right info "Outcome" ME 4% TE 14% and 2 runs BUT when i look at "job in progress" and check the outcome it shows ME 2% (ME 1) and TE 4% (TE 2) and 1 run.

In other Words it seems to disregard the decryptor.
What it will deliver I dont know yet....

A small suggestion:

Scrap the ME/TE value and change them to % meaning making the Max values for a BPO/BPC ME10% and TE 20% (why the conversion to %?) "should be simple".

Stop Writing +/- when it regards ME/TE (cant realy see the Point) and declare all values regarding ME/TE are positive and they are "amount of reduction".

Looking forvard to feedback.


It seems to be working, when you invent now, it only uses 1 run from the bpc. Regardless of whether it is successful or not you'll get the blueprint back with 1 run remaining.


The point is, when we started the invention with decryptors, the output information said multiple run BPO would result. Now, while still percolating, the output now says 1 run.

WTF?
Qinby
ImNo6
#478 - 2014-07-29 16:44:40 UTC
Team Auctions


Should be able to filter 2 (3?) different ways regarding manufacturing when finding teams to bid for.

Manufactoring ME (bonus)
Manufactoring TE (Bonus)

And maybe ME+TE but Im not greedy


Rgds
Qinby
ImNo6
#479 - 2014-07-29 16:57:59 UTC
Galmalmin wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Qinby wrote:
What happend with invention using decryptors?

This worked after deploying crius but stopped working aprox 27/7.

When installing invention job with decryptor (in this case Incognito Accelerant Run +1 ME +2 TE +10) the Industry UI gives the wrong info on produced BPC.

In all cases im talking about inventing an Ishtar (Heavy Assault Cruiser).

Invention without decryptor is said to produce a BPC with ME-2 and TE -4 (According to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/).

This is slightly confusing as well since in my World ME-2 and TE -4 should mean u need -2*1% (2% MORE MATERIAL) and -4*2%(8% MORE TIME).

IN THIS CASE IT SEEMS TO MEAN ME 2 AND TE 2 wich produces a BPC that uses 2% less material and 4% less time AND THAT IS THE RESULT YOU GET WHEN YOU INVENT WITHOUT DECRYPTOR.

THERE SEEMS TO BE A SLIGHT CONFUSION BETWEEN THE ME/TE VALUE AND WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE % OF EFFECT IT GIVES.
THERE ALSO SEEMS TO BE A CONFUSION ABOUT WHEN THE VALUE SHOULD BE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.

AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND THERE IS NEVER A NEGATIVE ME/TE VALUE on a BPO/BPC (a positive ME/TE is Always a reduction so using a "-" sign is only confusing)

My conclusion of the "terminology" is that when talking about Blueprint research it is ME and TE meaning the max value is ME 10 (10%) reduction in material and TE 10 (20%) reduction in time.

When you talk about decryptors IT IS NOT ME AND TE IT IS % (otherwise why give a decryptor TE +10 since you get 4 without decryptor add 10 and you get TE 14 and no Blueprint can have more than 10)



The right info using a decryptor (Icognito Accelerant) should on succesful invention be, Runs 2 ME 4 (4% reduction) and TE 7 (14% reduction).

This is the result I got until yesterday (27/7).

Then this happened....
When installingt tje job i got the right info "Outcome" ME 4% TE 14% and 2 runs BUT when i look at "job in progress" and check the outcome it shows ME 2% (ME 1) and TE 4% (TE 2) and 1 run.

In other Words it seems to disregard the decryptor.
What it will deliver I dont know yet....

A small suggestion:

Scrap the ME/TE value and change them to % meaning making the Max values for a BPO/BPC ME10% and TE 20% (why the conversion to %?) "should be simple".

Stop Writing +/- when it regards ME/TE (cant realy see the Point) and declare all values regarding ME/TE are positive and they are "amount of reduction".

Looking forvard to feedback.


It seems to be working, when you invent now, it only uses 1 run from the bpc. Regardless of whether it is successful or not you'll get the blueprint back with 1 run remaining.


The point is, when we started the invention with decryptors, the output information said multiple run BPO would result. Now, while still percolating, the output now says 1 run.

WTF?


It does (did) deliver the right BPC it is only the info in the in the"outcome window" that is missleading.
So if you havnt (like me) scrapped a 100 invention jobs thinking u forgot the decryptor it is realy only a problem for everybody else since we now know it just shows the wrong info but it delivers the right result.

And as I say in cases like this... f***ck everybody else if they have problems good for me, gives me an edge and hopefully the price of decryptors sink if people dont Think they work...

Would like your input on the whole ME/TE and % and sometimes negative values thing, is it only me or is there a confusion in the terminology.

Im not running the show Big smile just trying to understand...

Rgds
Meytal
Doomheim
#480 - 2014-07-29 19:44:44 UTC
Krystyn wrote:
You missed it. I was optimal. Patch occurs and BAM!! I'm sub optimal and not by a little bit. a LOT bit(6-9 months and billion isk) behind to the point of not bothering to try to catch up. Also my research POS doesn't work anymore either so my best method to catch up also killed by the patch. Follow me yet?

The change actually affects everyone. For manufacturers of similar products, the change affects them all equally.

Where you previously had a "perfect" ME 6 (or whatever) BPO, you now have ME-8 (or whatever). Everyone else who had a "perfect" ME 6 BPO -also- gets the new ME-8 BPO after the conversion. So it doesn't cost you any more than it costs someone else; it costs everyone a more. You are still quite competitive and have neither an advantage nor a disadvantage over anyone else, unless someone thought ahead and researched another ME level or two, wasteful research at the time, to reap the benefits post-Crius.


While I don't manufacture capitals except for corp needs or replacements, it was nothing for me to burn up to 500m ISK/day in raw materials. My costs haven't gone down; quite the opposite, in fact. It seems like everyone's costs have gone up. We've all been hit by the "Noooooes! It Costs moar!" epidemic.

As I posted earlier, a level of ME has much different meaning now, post-Crius, so differing times for ME research are to be expected and are not abnormal at all. That doesn't mean that 10 total ME levels is granular enough, but because of the reversal of time vs material cost in the ME change, you're not going to get the ME scaling that you used to have.


So you are still competitive now, post-Crius, with everyone else who had the same ME level of the same blueprint pre-Crius. Your costs are the same as theirs, their absolute margin for profit is the same as yours. It takes just as long for them to improve by one more ME level as it does you.

What changed is that it just costs more. For everyone.
Market prices are going to rise. For some items, it may take longer than for other items for the market to adjust.


Try to maintain a level head, and instead of complaining that prices went up like so many others are whining about in this thread, focus on CCP's ambiguous wording of blueprints remaining functionally the same or better post-Crius. I suspect that might be the only avenue you can explore for possible relief.

As for me, I don't really care, personally. I have goods on the market from pre-Crius. Until they sell, my indy alts are taking a break, and I'll just sit on my reserves for a while. With the changes, my PvP character can manufacture just as well as any of my indy alts now, so I could even so some stuff on a smaller scale while I wait, if I get the itch.

The market will adjust. I can wait. My alts can wait. I'm not particularly worried.
The sky is not falling.