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Crius Feedback

First post First post
Author
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#481 - 2014-07-29 21:52:33 UTC
Raphael Asanari wrote:
McRea wrote:
Drone Avionics skill guys. Update please.


Do not expect an update, CCP have gone into turtle mode just like after every single bad update. 7 days and no fix to a simple thing is ridiculous.


1 week down
only 5 more weeks till the next expansion.
Garai Nolen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#482 - 2014-07-29 22:27:55 UTC
Hello CCP. There is one simple UI update I'd love to see happen. It would be really nice if, at all times when the industry window is open, the number of active and available jobs for both science and manufacturing were displayed. Even if NO blueprint was currently selected. With the current window layout it seems like there should be plenty of room, as per this incredibly detailed mockup :)

http://i.imgur.com/rouufvY.png

Thanks!
A'stral
The DIRT Corporation
#483 - 2014-07-30 01:23:11 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
iwannadig wrote:
We need skill points respect for Material Efficiency (Advanced Industry), because it changed behaviour.


The behavior was changed but the skill was not removed. We are NOT refunding skill points for this. We are looking into a better solution for the skill though.



What about what happened to resource processing? From near 100% to 60%?? Do I get a free station to make up for it? Oh, wait.. ima in a NPC corp. So I guess I get nothing for the major nerf.

And why for the past 5 days all the hype about how this change has been 'successfully deployed'. please...
A'stral
The DIRT Corporation
#484 - 2014-07-30 01:36:04 UTC
hmmm... wasn't Crius supposed to big a big improvement to help industrialists? I like the new interfaces, but scanning the forum, and my own experience, almost seems like an assault on Indy's. meh, what do I know
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#485 - 2014-07-30 01:55:29 UTC
Circus: It's an Assault all right...on my mind

So I was thinking about running a mission, see if they were broke too. Then I realized my drone boat wouldn't work as my Advanced Drone Avionics, along with the plain Jane skill went down a notch.

I guess somehow my making my drone boat active while doing invention jobs for the lulz (hadn't tried it, interface ain't bad, needs serious customization options though) my game crashed...

Socket to ME?

I guess this amazing new interaction between industry and Drones avionics throughout new eden is the wave of the future.

I predict that the next patch will randomly turn your turrets into festival launchers and spew South Park characters out, and depending on your Research skill level, you may get little bunnies too.

BUT...Only if you had done any industry since logging in.

Thanks for watching.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.

Dareth Astrar
Astrar Logistics and Engineering
#486 - 2014-07-30 10:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dareth Astrar
Guys,


I just wanted to check some maths here, as I was a little surprised by this one myself, if anyone else would mind casting eyes over this.

OK so I was simply looking at the Cyclone as an example, to review the changes effect, and on a ME-10% blueprint I got the figures of:

Tritanium / 2,900,000
Pyerite / 690,001
Mexallon / 170,001
Isogen / 53,001
Zydrine / 2,800
Megacyte / 1,501

However, when you use the Copy Material Information right-click option on the (>) in the new Industry UI you get the following material requirement information:

Minerals
typeID / Item / Available / Required / Est. Unit price
34 / Tritanium / 0 / 2842000 / 6.0291
35 / Pyerite / 0 / 676201 / 11.4021
36 / Mexallon / 0 / 166601 / 47.961
37 / Isogen / 0 / 51941 / 125.6548
39 / Zydrine / 0 / 2744 / 609.9978
40 / Megacyte / 0 / 1471 / 1398.3572

which actually differs from the numbers presented in the actual mineral boxes in the requirement on the screen, which show the first set of numbers that I posted.

Kind regards,


Dareth

[Edit]: Removed other information, other discrepancy found. I blame a sore back for the day Smile
KBLUEJACK54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#487 - 2014-07-30 14:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: KBLUEJACK54
Been a few days now since Crius appeared, aptly named to some maybe but over all seem to have gone in smoothly just like CCP planned it would, some would say well what did you expect, most sneaky knife attacks have that result, others are over joyed with the over sized blingy busy and easy to miss stuff industry UI all of which could have been served equally well by adding a simple mouse over to the original screen containing all the bling information you need to build stuff in EVE, but what do I know I am just the end user, my view is they should take away that guys crayons and put him to work on something useful, like emptying the bins.

However I digress slightly, only slightly though, My biggest gripe on this one is the way they have introduced this Refine thing and it seems to be the one that I hear the most about from my members currently, who by the way are currently sitting on there ore's wondering what direction to take next as although the figures in general match up to Pre Crius, the perception is that now they can actually see the amounts CCP is carving off the top, and they are not insignificant, they are in some way not getting the full value for there 'Time' invested in mining ore.

I guess a round up of last nights conversation might go some way to explaining this point of view, long standing member who mines for Corp in the main and puts in a lot of time doing it, strolled into station for the first time and having right clicked his pile of Veld was shocked to realise that out of the amount he was trying to refine he was in fact loosing a total of 93 million units of Trit outright and off the top, naturally the convo's started to flow on this one.

His perception was that having accrued a pile of Veld he would have expected 415 units of trit per unit of veld but in reality he was actually being offered 318, an off the top loss of 97 trit per unit of veld which he felt was unacceptable for two reasons.

First off CCP did not make it clear that they were now going to include the actual ore skill, not the refining skills here, in the refine calculation so he was loosing 2% there having all his toons including his refine toon to lvl 4 on all ore's.

And secondly that having invested in the 4% refine implant he could clearly see that the station he normally refined in was going to give him a maximum refine percentage of 74% and even if he trained his refine toon to max on all skills this in his view was not going to change significantly and his looses were unacceptable.

Now this guy is no dummy, he is industry to the core and has been for years, but this gave him the idea in his mind that out of each nine hours mining he had in fact mined for three hours for utterly nothing, not the actually figures here but the perception that having put in all that time CCP was now screwing him over.

Well after over two hours discussion covering all the figures currently in force sadly that perception still remained in his mind and I see today he has sold off his fleet and dropped his corp roles on his toons ready I assume to leave Corp followed shortly afterwards by leaving EVE which after eight years playing is a sad testament to CCP's handling of this issue.

My view, To much to fast and badly implemented leaving players confused and upset with the perception that they have no real worth for the time invested and have lost a lot in this process, Way to go Dev's you really pulled a number on this guy for sure.
Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#488 - 2014-07-30 15:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Qmamoto Kansuke
Can you bring back the old industry ui as an option PLEASE my corp mates keep reporting 20%cpu load increase, crashes,freezes when working with this one and specially when we try to deliver 200+jobs.
Jed Clampett
Doomheim
#489 - 2014-07-30 21:01:51 UTC
There seems to be plenty of room to
Ideaphysically offset the industry job STOP button horizontally from the job START buttonIdea
-- why not do so?

Overlapping the job STOP button with the job START button is unnecessarily hazardous. It just seems to me to be better UI design if the STOP and START job buttons are not physically overlapped where key bounce or multiple presses during interface lag might end up canceling a freshly submitted job. (LOL initially I reported Use Blueprint selection as not working on the first day of release when in fact the code was good but reaction just lagged many minutes/hours by database lag.)


I realize there might be a CONFIRM job cancellation button. I have not wanted to "pay" to check if there is by intentionally pressing STOP. And of course I would not be surprised if the CONFIRM Cancellation button overlapped the STOP button - since UI design seems to have been a bit rushed to meet deadlines.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#490 - 2014-07-30 21:30:50 UTC
Jed Clampett wrote:



I realize there might be a CONFIRM job cancellation button. I have not wanted to "pay" to check if there is by intentionally pressing STOP. And of course I would not be surprised if the CONFIRM Cancellation button overlapped the STOP button - since UI design seems to have been a bit rushed to meet deadlines.


To confirm - there is a CONFIRM Cancel button . And yes it's sitting right on top of the STOP button. Hopefully you don't have a bouncy mouse.

Say "Hi!" to Ellie May for me! Big smile

Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#491 - 2014-07-30 22:17:25 UTC
Meytal wrote:
Krystyn wrote:
You missed it. I was optimal. Patch occurs and BAM!! I'm sub optimal and not by a little bit. a LOT bit(6-9 months and billion isk) behind to the point of not bothering to try to catch up. Also my research POS doesn't work anymore either so my best method to catch up also killed by the patch. Follow me yet?

...
The change actually affects everyone. For manufacturers of similar products, the change affects them all equally.
...
Where you previously had a "perfect" ME 6 (or whatever) BPO, you now have ME-8 (or whatever). Everyone else who had a "perfect" ME 6 BPO -also- gets the new ME-8 BPO after the conversion. So it doesn't cost you any more than it costs someone else; it costs everyone a more. You are still quite competitive and have neither an advantage nor a disadvantage over anyone else, unless someone thought ahead and researched another ME level or two, wasteful research at the time, to reap the benefits post-Crius.
...
Try to maintain a level head, and instead of complaining that prices went up like so many others are whining about in this thread, focus on CCP's ambiguous wording of blueprints remaining functionally the same or better post-Crius. I suspect that might be the only avenue you can explore for possible relief.

.....

The market will adjust. I can wait. My alts can wait. I'm not particularly worried.
The sky is not falling.



Nice to hear such a positive attitude!

There's one problem that still sticks out for me though ....

Keeping a POS up, without any interruption/job cancellations (due to wardecs, etc.) which would forfeit the Billion isk install cost, all while wide open to internal corp theft since they can't be locked down at a POS, for 10 months straight with no increments in between ---> Is anyone actually going to do this?

Ivan Isovich
Clutter Conglomerate
CAStabouts
#492 - 2014-07-31 01:56:56 UTC
Suggestion:

in the S&I display graphics, in the T2 invention screen, the results of the invention job displays two different styles: If you can choose two options for the invention job, it displays the name of the invention result. If you have only one option to invent from the BPC, it merely displays a graphic of the invention result with no name of the invented item (only displays on a mouse over). In the second scenario, the game should always display the name of the final product.

It would also be great if in the BP list, once an invention job is delivered, that the BPC listed would change to the BPC invented....such as Hybrid Antimatter S displaying as Void S instead of still showing Antimatter.

Thanks!
Vovan Sotkin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#493 - 2014-07-31 07:22:05 UTC
First of all, I like the new Interface, all seems to working nice, approximate calculations are also fine., but I would like to suggest this calculations to apply for not invented yet items.
Currently in invention window we see out-coming blueprints with their ME and TE, but if we right click on it and select use blueprint, we always get standard calculations with no decriptor involved, ME and TE from previous invention window doesnt take in to account, max run in that case is limited to -1.
I think it would be very nice if ME, TE, max run would be taken from invention window and transferred to the next manufacturing window calculations, or if it would be possible to manually adjust ME and TE.
Otherwise all good, well done with crius.
Thanks.
Deriah Book
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#494 - 2014-07-31 07:57:41 UTC
I have three questions after 90 minutes of futzing with the SI UI and getting next to nothing done.

1. Can we in fact see predictions of the outcome of different levels of ME and TE? If so, how?

2. What does the orange antique picture frame that appears after clicking "view in industry" signify?

3. Is there any way to investigate what will be needed for an invention process without having the actual BPC on hand?

TIA - db
Vovan Sotkin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#495 - 2014-07-31 09:34:16 UTC
Deriah Book wrote:
I have three questions after 90 minutes of futzing with the SI UI and getting next to nothing done.

1. Can we in fact see predictions of the outcome of different levels of ME and TE? If so, how?

2. What does the orange antique picture frame that appears after clicking "view in industry" signify?

3. Is there any way to investigate what will be needed for an invention process without having the actual BPC on hand?

TIA - db

1. choose bp in industry/invention choose datacore you want to use, you get predictions on success, ME / TE, runs on right side.
2. Cant say, not in the game now.
3. write bluprint name or part of it in any chat window, select, right click on it, auto link item tipe (I think) choose right blueprint, use in industry.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#496 - 2014-07-31 14:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
Vovan Sotkin wrote:
Deriah Book wrote:
I have three questions after 90 minutes of futzing with the SI UI and getting next to nothing done.

1. Can we in fact see predictions of the outcome of different levels of ME and TE? If so, how?

2. What does the orange antique picture frame that appears after clicking "view in industry" signify?

3. Is there any way to investigate what will be needed for an invention process without having the actual BPC on hand?

TIA - db

1. choose bp in industry/invention choose datacore you want to use, you get predictions on success, ME / TE, runs on right side.
2. Cant say, not in the game now.
3. write bluprint name or part of it in any chat window, select, right click on it, auto link item tipe (I think) choose right blueprint, use in industry.


3 doesn't work for Invention. You have to have a BPC before you can access the invention part of the shop. So one way or another, to explore invention you have to get your hands on a physical BPC.

Edit: or a link to a physical BPC. Pre-Crapus I would search in contracts for BPC to do an info on for invention exploration. Doing info on BPO's has mixed results post-release (most of the time you will only see ME 0 numbers presented - so go to outside tool to do the math), but maybe BPC's are not broken.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
#497 - 2014-07-31 15:27:21 UTC
Oh...

WOW Big smile

The idea to put ship model preview directly in industry window's "Outcome" area is simply brilliant. I love it Big smile
H3llHound
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#498 - 2014-07-31 15:51:02 UTC
Quote:
Numerous other adjustments to blueprint build requirements and times.



Can we get a list of this ?
Atkyaz Dreadstalker
Killer Sea Monkeys
#499 - 2014-07-31 15:57:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Atkyaz Dreadstalker
A'stral wrote:
hmmm... wasn't Crius supposed to big a big improvement to help industrialists? I like the new interfaces, but scanning the forum, and my own experience, almost seems like an assault on Indy's. meh, what do I know



Crius was a big change, it will take time to adapt, but for the most part I like the changes. There are a few changes yet needed, a few bugs to fix, and a few more filters added, but overall I consider it an improvement.

As far as reprocessing goes, it was not nerfed, the numbers just changed. I as well was getting 100% refine before, now I am getting 74% in a 50% station, but the mineral return is the same. It was not nerfed, infact with maxed skills you can now get more minerals from a given stack of ore than you could before. 74% is the new 100%, however, now it is possible to get up to 78% or 104% by the old system. That is available in high sec, not just null sec. In low an null POS refineries are even a little better.

With the old system, a single batch of 333 Veldspar with 100% refine gave you 1000 tritanium. The new system uses 100 units for refine. So for a direct comparison you need a stack of 33300. With the old system and 100% refine that gave you 100,000 tritanium. Under the new system with maxed skills and a POS refinery, even though you are only getting 76% refine, you are getting more than 100,000 trit from that same stack of ore. I believe with a fully upgraded minmatar outpost (60% base facility) you can get up to 86% refine. That is a significant boost over the old system, not a nerf.

The days of getting maxed refine without maxed skills are over. Skill up, and you will see a buff, not a nerf. ore skills from 4 to 5 is not a huge amount of training, if you are a min/maxer.

The one thing I do find odd is how easy it is to raise the index to near max. I agree that you should not need the activity level of Jita to max the index, but all connected high sec systems have a very high index. The only high sec systems with a low index are on high sec islands. The index scale definitely needs some work, however I expect CCP is already looking at tweeking its balance. Even just a wider scale would make a huge difference. A system with only a few active industrialists should not be only marginally better than a system with hundreds like Jita.

For example, building the T2 capital armor plates for jump freighters, 1520 runs needed for a single freighter has an install cost of 64 million isk at my home system, but only goes up to 83 million in Jita. However, the activity level in my system is not that high. I rarely see more than a dozen people in local. The cheapest facility I could find in high sec was on a high sec island which has near zero activity and it was still 15 million install cost. With some unsed stations in low sec down to just over 1 million. This price range seems good, but the amount of activity it takes to significantly raise the index just seems way to low. Jita should not be the only maxed system, but systems with comparatively low activity should not have the index at 80%.

I know that the job cost indexing calculation is still being worked on, but it seems even over looking that, it is still way to easy to drive the index up.
DuBios
Wolf Investments
TOTALLY DONT FREIGHT STUFF
#500 - 2014-07-31 17:39:49 UTC
Dont know if it was intentional that it is this way now...but it would be nice if the input/output locations would stay the same when going between blueprints and also would be nice if your could set it like you could with the old industry system