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[Hyperion] Heavy Assault Cruiser tweaks

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Capqu
Half Empty
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#81 - 2014-07-29 14:57:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
i mean make them useless

maybe i should have just said heavy missiles ehEHEHhe

Sad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2014-07-29 14:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
This may seem crazy but I feel like the biggest problem to battleships is their warp speed, add in your align time and a BS is a easy easy target to catch and kill. solo you get caught, small gang you get caught (though less maybe with low sec titans semi popular), big blobs get caught by bubbles easily by dictors that don't get aggression from bubbling.

I think in tank, damage dealing, variety, battleships are in a good place but If battleships are slow and can't hit frigates, how are they going to perform in interceptors online? This makes the Domi, in having the ability to project damage to frigates and cruisers with drones the one that survived the nerf well. Warp speed is a great way to do it, letting a BS keep up with the dessy's that are supposed to keep frigs off it and make it less terrible to fly.

Airicraft carriers are the fastest ships in the carrier battle group and buffing warp speed would do a lot to make battleships much more fun to fly again.

IMO

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2014-07-29 14:58:40 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The tempest main problem is, a battleship that devote BOTH bonuses to damage and yet is the among lowest damage of all on realistic fits.

Only 6 lows is not enough for a competitive tank AND competitive damage mod number.


It does need 7 low slots. OR one of its damage mods changed. Something like 5% rof and 7.5% Damage per level . That way the battleship with 2 damage mods would STILL not be among the highest damage ones, but would not be on the bottom as well.


7-5-7 ......6 turrets feel free to remove some launchers
7.5% ROF
7.5% damage

maybe switch its mass with phoon and then buff its speed and agility


Go 8 guns, drop RoF for tracking speed. I'm fine either with them keeping the current slot setup on that or going with 4 mids and 7 lows, because it sets it up better as a proper attack battleship. It currently doesn't get any damage projection or application bonuses, and is the only attack battleship not to do so. Besides; tracking speed would help it apply its dps SIGNIFICANTLY better if you're fitting ACs on it.


8 guns removes the utility high completely and takes a slot from either the low or mid slot .. its just bad choice .. when they could just do what they have done with bc's and the hyperion .. of just increasing the damage bonuses too allow better slot layout


That's why they have the 7/5/7 slot layout on the Typhoon; it's supposed to be the utility/jack of all trades BS, while the Tempest is "a versatile gunship proficient at long-range bombardment and capable of dishing out specialized types of damage with great effectiveness."

It's supposed to focus on projectile specialization, which means having the 8 gun setup with a damage and tracking bonus makes it excel at fielding arty and autos alike, and doesn't step on the toes of its other siblings, the tornado and maelstrom. The fleet issue counterparts should retain more utlity since that's the theme that they have going for them.



Your proposal just make it redundant to the maelstrom .

7/5/7 on tempest would keep both usage happy. AND if you change the damage bonus to 7.5% damage , then It can Be an arti boat on par with the maelstrom but with less EHP but more agility. AND still work as a clsoe range AC boat with tacklign capability and a neut. Even the current slot layout with a damage bonus changed to 7.5% per level would already help a LOT.

What woudl be more specialized on projectiles than a ship with 5% rof AND 7.5% damage per level?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2014-07-29 14:59:46 UTC
Capqu wrote:
rise i'd appreciate it if you just gave ishtars the rapid light missile treatment


if you know what i mean ;) ;) ;)



You can deploy drones and they fire with 40% increased Rof for 20 secodns then explode?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#85 - 2014-07-29 14:59:51 UTC
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Capqu wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:


TLDR; Tempest should keep its slots, but change its bonuses from 5% dmg and 5% firing rate to an 8 gun ships with 5% damage and 7.5% tracking speed per level.


nope nope nope

there is a reason there is no normal ship in the game with 8 turrets and a damage bonus to 1400mms


arties already have far too much alpha and should really be changed too a better balanced profile...

They fire extremely slow, their alpha is canceled out by the fact they fire once every 10 seconds

their DPS is worse than Rails, have less tracking and have about the same range


Yet rails have never alphad a tengue on an undock before. Arty need to have their damaged reduced slightly and have their ROF upped slightly
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#86 - 2014-07-29 15:01:03 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Capqu wrote:
rise i'd appreciate it if you just gave ishtars the rapid light missile treatment


if you know what i mean ;) ;) ;)



You can deploy drones and they fire with 40% increased Rof for 20 secodns then explode?



no you can fly an ishtar for 2 days a week and then you have to reload for the next 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2014-07-29 15:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
CCP Rise wrote:


PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?



Honestly, it seems like minmatar ships are less flexible now than ever.

Gallentean ships are much more flexible due to their slot layouts, they can armor or shield.

Now Minmatar ships can't do either because lowslot no CPU 'nano slots' count against total slot count, making your shield tank awful.
./end vagabond rant.

but yea, rip tempest flexibility on that one

...but hello nomen pest :)

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2014-07-29 15:02:16 UTC
Fredric Wolf wrote:

Yet rails have never alphad a tengue on an undock before. Arty need to have their damaged reduced slightly and have their ROF upped slightly

Then you're bringing them in to be redundant to rail guns and beams which defeats the purpose of alpha artillery
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#89 - 2014-07-29 15:03:53 UTC
It's worth making these threads just to get to talk with you Capqu.

Back with real responses after next meeting.

@ccp_rise
afkboss
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2014-07-29 15:04:41 UTC
Can you please look at the sacrilege, it has a resists bonus but 2 less low slots than the zealot. I want to fly this ship more but i just look at it and sigh.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#91 - 2014-07-29 15:04:57 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
The sentries have to go on the Ishtar. Its sad to say but it gives the Ishtar way too much range and flexibility.

Rebalance it to not be a sentry boat. I've suggested it before and I'll suggest it again.

Change heavy drone bandwidth from 25 to 20
Change the ishtar, navy vexor bandwidth from 125 to 100.

You now have a nitch for the Ishtar, (heavy drone operations ship), the navy vexor, stratios and the myrmidon functions better as they now have an option to launch a full flight of drones that are not sentries, but also are not some mismatch set of drones that the myrmidon, vexor and prophecy currently run.

Basically you don't make the damage of ishtars instantaneous, and you also create a better chase sequence for when they run

Change heavy drones to 20 bandwidth each
Reduce bandwidth on Ishtar and vexor navy to 100.


stupid, just give them 50 bandwidth and x% medium drone damage bonus. like gila drone dps, but over 5 drones instead of 2.


You're forgetting that there are a Handful of non-Ishtar ships out there that have exactly 100 Mbit bandwidth that could see this as a stealth buff, not to mention the folks that fly w/ 75Mbit bandwidth that could run a 3+2 heavy/medium setup.

Also, there are a few frigs/destros out there (tristan, algos, Dragoon) that would now be able to field a Heavy. I'm betting that's not in the design process.


you shouldn't want to be using mixed-size drone groups, they're a horrible necessity. I'm not saying anything about dragoons or whatever. I'm saying cruisers and BCs with drone damage bonuses should have 50 bandwidth and appropriate drone damage.

for algos I'd probably drop it to 25 and up the damage bonus slightly to compensate. having to 'option' to fit extremely slow, no-tracking drones in my no-dronebay destroyer is something I've only exercised once, and immediately regretted because it's stupid.
rsantos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2014-07-29 15:05:10 UTC
8/4/7 - LOL!

Rise... dude... You know what you could do to stop the nerf "isthar and sentries" thingy...
Give us back the pre-nerf tracking enhancers and buff tracking computers ... there ... now its not just sentry and missile boats that can kite ... Eh ... look fixed your Tempest too!

Point is Auto cannons after the tracking nerf just suck, blasters compensate a bit with the much higher dps.

Isthar does bettween 700-800 dps at 50-60 km (not going even to talk about geckos) ... only the HAC with similar damage is the deimos or that "chicken looking" caldary ship that i can't remember the name, the and the range is not even comparable... i would risk to say nerf the dps or bring other inline with that.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#93 - 2014-07-29 15:05:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
The sentries have to go on the Ishtar. Its sad to say but it gives the Ishtar way too much range and flexibility.

Rebalance it to not be a sentry boat. I've suggested it before and I'll suggest it again.

Change heavy drone bandwidth from 25 to 20
Change the ishtar, navy vexor bandwidth from 125 to 100.

You now have a nitch for the Ishtar, (heavy drone operations ship), the navy vexor, stratios and the myrmidon functions better as they now have an option to launch a full flight of drones that are not sentries, but also are not some mismatch set of drones that the myrmidon, vexor and prophecy currently run.

Basically you don't make the damage of ishtars instantaneous, and you also create a better chase sequence for when they run

Change heavy drones to 20 bandwidth each
Reduce bandwidth on Ishtar and vexor navy to 100.





At the end.. the final solution for this and the correlated problem would be to nerf ALL sentry drones tracking by some 30%.


What of the bonuses on the Ishtar if such a change happens, you change them.

It's more than just tracking on sentries. They should have never been deployable on a cruiser platform. Nerf the quantity (from 5 to 4). That is a drop of 20% of its damage, but it keeps its projection and range. You can still do the stupid stuff ishtars can currently do, especially if in gangs of 40 to 50.

Yaay!!!!
El Space Mariachi
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#94 - 2014-07-29 15:05:49 UTC
can you fix heavy missiles and hams rise

thanks :-)

gay gamers for jesus
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2014-07-29 15:06:11 UTC
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Capqu wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:


TLDR; Tempest should keep its slots, but change its bonuses from 5% dmg and 5% firing rate to an 8 gun ships with 5% damage and 7.5% tracking speed per level.


nope nope nope

there is a reason there is no normal ship in the game with 8 turrets and a damage bonus to 1400mms


arties already have far too much alpha and should really be changed too a better balanced profile...

They fire extremely slow, their alpha is canceled out by the fact they fire once every 10 seconds

their DPS is worse than Rails, have less tracking and have about the same range


Yet rails have never alphad a tengue on an undock before. Arty need to have their damaged reduced slightly and have their ROF upped slightly



it would make them completely worthless.

Why someone undocks from Jita 4-4 without a buffer tank is REALLY beyond me. Nerfign a weapon system woudl NOT solve this non issue,. The gankers woudl jsut add yet another tornado.

And the arties would lose their role in warfare.

So stop this shortsighted thinking. Arties are the most flavored weapon system in game. They are great. Ships insta explodign on undocks already existed before the arties got alpha increased. Just back then it were a few more ships firing.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
MANDOZERTHEGREAT
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#96 - 2014-07-29 15:06:29 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
It's worth making these threads just to get to talk with you Capqu.

Back with real responses after next meeting.


rekt
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#97 - 2014-07-29 15:07:13 UTC
@CCP Rise - For battleships, They would be used more if you Nerf Tier 3 battlecruisers.

264 DPS - Omen 5x Heavy Beam Lasers II (Multifreq)
356 DPS - Harbenger 6x Heavy Beam Lasers II
455 DPS - Oracle 8x Tachyon Beam Laser II
455 DPS - Abaddon 8x Tachyon Beam Laser II

Removing 1 turret slot from the oracle drops it to 398 DPS

But Caldari gets even better.

272 DPS - Moa 5x Heavy Neutron Blasters
305 DPS - Ferox 7x Heavy Neutron Blasters
584 DPS - Naga 8x Neutron Blaster Cannon
467 DPS - Rokh 8x Neutron Blaster Cannon

I cannot be blind. There is a major disconnect here. A lot of people will say "Oh but the tank will off set the imbalance in DPS"
NO.
IT.
DOESN'T.
afkboss
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2014-07-29 15:08:32 UTC
Also can we please get an ETA on a Rorqual pass? I came so close to refining it just before last patch but decided to put faith in you guys fixing it soon.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#99 - 2014-07-29 15:09:14 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
It's worth making these threads just to get to talk with you Capqu.

Back with real responses after next meeting.


❤Cool

someones gotta keep you cuties in check

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#100 - 2014-07-29 15:09:17 UTC
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:
Fredric Wolf wrote:

Yet rails have never alphad a tengue on an undock before. Arty need to have their damaged reduced slightly and have their ROF upped slightly

Then you're bringing them in to be redundant to rail guns and beams which defeats the purpose of alpha artillery


I am not saying reduce to lvls of rails or beams more in the line of 8k vollys, 12k is to high and is being abused is so many ways in this game. Yes some ships will still die to this but most ships that should not die to a single shot will no longer.