EVE General Discussion

tsk-tsk, even the Goons show enough self control so as to not have their posts sliced and diced.
(an no, as someone tried to pass us all off as, I'm not a goon alt.)

However, I will post this:
http://themittani.com/content/soss-67-incarna-postmortem-6
The summary version is that Jester’s PCU chart unleashed (another) howl of anger about the delays and failures of the Incarna expansion; the CSM began harassing CCP in the gaming press over the neglect of ‘Flying in Space’ (what everyone besides CCP calls ‘Eve Online’), and now the CSM and CCP are in heavily NDA’d weekly meetings to discuss and try to resolve the situation. Fun stuff.

And the result of that is obviously a halt in WiS development (but not maintenance of course) while the Carbon experiment went over to WoD, which eventually killed it off ~$30M dollars later. If continued on EVE, we would still be just receiving micro-patces to WiS and a wholly broken spaceship game. Of course you can discount my link, but if you read it closely then you should discount your own opinions as well since he had a favorable view of WiS, at least back then, don't know about now. In retrospect, I find it hard to see it as anything but a complete failure, especially with the R&D numbers that came out of it's future development over at WoD.

Ok now back to denial and kicking of the redundant dead horse.

My guess is technically yes they can (speaking of Legion on UE3-4). They demonstrated that by integrating Carbon. Will they? dunno. Possible they could run an f2p stand alone version and then integrate another non-f2p version into the EVE client with the same in-game transitions as like how Carbon has worked. But technically, yes they could.

Because it's project level is "full focus" not "tweaking a few things". If you conclude that in all likelihood it will never be released (which you seem to do) then there's no case for spending any developer time on it.

CCP seem to be moving in the direction of making Eve/Valk/Legion as seemless an experience as possible, and I think this is a very good thing.
Do I want to dock my ship, pick up a gun and go shoot some people in the face? Absolutely.
Do I want to dock my ship, put on my skirt and go and 'socialise' ....er.... no.

Fact of the matter is this - if you want any actual gameplay out of WiS, then it needs to look a hell of a lot more like Legion than Incarna.
The whole reason Incarna was so strongly rejected, is because it offering any actual gameplay was years away in a pipeline dream; it's intended design was as a cash-shop to generate revenue, with monacles and all the rest of it.

Eve will get "walking" but it probably won't be in stations, and will have a focus on delivering a gameplay experience rather than dress up dollies.

It shows that CSM was angry over the lack of FiS development (as were the players), went into private NDA meetings where they were probably shown the problems with WiS and it's failing code (obvious reason for the NDA), and then WiS faced summary execution as it has stood ever since in EVE. It's only hope was WoD developers to iron out the problems, but in the end WoD development failed.

All this WiS activity now in forums is only a last ditch effort by a remaining few to convince CCP to continue with Carbon development, because your hope laid with WoD to get it working and now that WoD is dead you have run out of hope. It's out of desperation for what little is left of your WiS dream which revolved around Carbon.

If anything, the FPS is the future of any bipedal development in EVE, to whatever extent. While WiS will only receive maintenance and the occasional new dress to wear. Who knows, maybe some day they may allow multiple characters in CQ, but beyond that Carbon is dead for any real further code expansion. But then multiple characters in CQ is just a wild guess and probably wont even happen since they seemed to have serious problems doing the same in WoD.

I believe "carbon" is a generic term at CCP. As far as I could tell when they were introducing it, it was more about a version control system than an actual product. But yeah, the space-barbie engine appears to have been a dead end at it's very core. Thank freaking goodness development on space-barbie stopped when it did. It's too bad WoD is a completely dead IP though. CCP definitely dropped the ball on that one, having no backup plan. Still, now that we know the whole barbie engine is dead, it probably should just be cut out of the client. It'd be nice for downloads to be reduced by 1 gig from what they are now. I wonder how many trial accounts just said "screw this" while waiting for it to download.

I would say maybe the future of space-barbie is in adapting legion to have pointless fashion show runways. At least then it won't be a waste of millions of dollars on something that has no value. Somewhat useful stuff, like allowing EVE characters to play in legion, is supposedly in the vision, so legion-barbie isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Let me guess... the reason could be that there only a handful of people working on EVE and if you move those to work on WiS then of course core play is being impacted. I am pretty sure EVE has been put in maintenance mode, e.g. no more expansions, just fixes. I am really looking forward to being proven wrong. Please prove me wrong.

It's about reiteration but they have been working on new stuff. Player built gates and uncharted solar systems, deep space exploration etc. Part of the five year plan. Reiteration and maintenance mode are two different things. You don't see all the new stuff going in or something? Only a Jita 4-4 doubler would miss it all. Or someone that just logs in once a month to update the skill que.

CARBON is CCP's umbrella term for their entire technology infrastructure - trinity, destiny and the cluster database code, but also their name for the 3D engine that powers avatar gameplay from a marketing POV.
I assume they pushed avatar graphics as all new "the CARBON engine" / "CARBON technology" because it's neater to market to potential investors than "a bolted-on rendering module that runs on top of the 7 year old trinity2 graphics platform" which according to CCPs press statements, is basically how they do the avatar rendering; it isn't it's own discrete game engine in the classical sense.

Back in late 2010 CCP had a sizable core technology team that were working centrally to deploy WoD and Incarna alongside one another (ergo the frequently heard complaint that CCP were forcing a tech demo of WoD onto players and calling it an Eve expansion, a claim that was literally true in some senses).
Now that WoD is shelved, you just won't see CCP commit the resources needed to make CARBON-WiS a reality. They can't do it, that's the financial and technical reality. Their pie-in-the-sky dream of paying for Incarna/WiS was two-fold:
- The tech would be re-used to launch WoD when it was working in Eve.
- Micro-transactions to generate revenue.

With both these things eliminated, CCP is never going to see a future for a project that generates no revenue and costs $$$$ to implement.

Yeah right, they are unable to use anythin from one in the other, or base one off the other.

And there was never a FPS where people lusted after hats.

Webvan, pls.

Well Kahn is right. Carbon is mostly showcased around the portion of it representing the avatar play, but yet an umbrella term for parts of the system. It can take on a lot of aspects of the system, but the central feature at least as far as the pitch on their Carbon presentation page went is into what sells to other potential development projects, a functioning 3D system for character animation, rendering, shaders and such, to license to other developers.

I don't know what you mean about a different format though. It would most likely need a different engine all together as far as the real-time 3D rendering engine is concerned. I think it has been pretty clear, in this thread - or was it one of the redundant others - that it is Carbon based as far as it stands now in regards to WiS. If they say... introduced the Unreal Engine directly into the game, in addition to the existing systems, one game client, I don't think it would be referred to as WiS. But then of course, not saying they should, integrating UE to an existing game engine has resulted in the death of a number of projects, so very well may be run on an entirely separate client just for FPS play. That would be cumbersome of course, one client closing to open another, if it's integrated play somehow.

It's hard to say where Carbon begins and ends, like with the UI, some projects use entirely different systems between the 3D engine and the 2D system primarily used to develop the UI etc. When you develop something in-house, you can call anything you want whatever you want, from the parts to the whole.

Which redundant thread is this again? Oh yeah, it'll all just get debated again. Some ~$500 bucks or whatever just wont cut it, to revive something dead and buried as far as WiS based on Carbon is concerned. Why can't we just post this on the one dreadnaught thread? Posting on these other threads feels too much like missing the toilet.