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Dev blog: Building better Worlds

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Mercenary Coalition
#61 - 2014-04-15 15:32:50 UTC
So, and how do we find out how high the current price for the installation of an industry job on a given station is? Hopefully not by moving around in a freighter full with the stuff required for the manufacturing and checking every desired station individually... then again, as I came to know CCP wants more interaction ... Oh god, what have I done. Shocked

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

#62 - 2014-04-15 15:36:08 UTC
Quote:
Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.


My chief complaint:

I have about 25,000 blueprints and blueprint copies and more than a half-dozen POSes. The only reason I can deal with such a quagmire is because of stations and containers.

Currently, in order to produce a specific item, all I have to do is go to a certain station, open a certain container, and move some of its contents to the station floor.

Under this new system, judging by the way you phrase it ("like other materials"), I would need to do one of two things:

1. Let all my blueprints pile up in various POS arrays, and thus have to scroll through at least hundreds of items every time I start a job.

2. Store all my blueprints in nice organized containers as I do now, and thus every time I start a job be forced to go to every one of my POSes, individually open every single POS array I'm using, scroll to the right container, and remove a simple handful of blueprints each time.

#2 would be a lot more clicks, a lot of downtime as I warp between POSes, and in general a lot of annoyance. Even if the S&I interface is revamped to where I don't need to click the exact same 8 spots on my screen 10 times for every character I own, the amount of time wasted by clunky game mechanics would still increase significantly.



Long story short, when you work on your filtering mechanisms, please keep in mind that many of us manage more than a single POS and definitely more than just a handful of arrays, cycle through several dozen blueprint types rather than only producing Megathrons, and in general go to extremes that you, Developers, may not expect.
Rote Kapelle
#63 - 2014-04-15 15:36:14 UTC
WOW. This is awesome!! Button spam will finally be removed for industrialists!

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Caldari State
#64 - 2014-04-15 15:38:08 UTC
Squelch wrote:
Soz if this has already been mentioned, but where you mention the new R.A.M requirements (in your example, you'll need 60 R.A.M where you needed 1 before), that will effectivley de-value any current stocks of R.A.M by a huge amount (example, 60 times less valuable).

Will existing stocks be multiplied to compensate, or is this something that players with R.A.M stocks will just have to deal with?

Additionally, will existing sources of R.A.M items have their drop quantities increased?


but won't it make them more valuable by increasing demand ?

sorry if it's a basic question, but I don't really get involved in the industrial side of eve.
except as a consumer of end products.
Corelum Syndicate
#65 - 2014-04-15 15:39:10 UTC
Will this effect Insurance, which is not rather low on former low tier ships, like Dominix, Typhoon and Armageddon?
Working Stiffs
#66 - 2014-04-15 15:39:32 UTC
What about BPO lockdown if we have to move them to POS?
#67 - 2014-04-15 15:39:34 UTC
Good stuff happening EXCEPT for the h-sec nerf of Standings removal.
POCOs ... miss. POS ... miss.

It's the wrong way to go. It only temporarily relieves Vet boredom. Then the game is left drier than before.

"Block" pigs. Refuse to fly with them.

#68 - 2014-04-15 15:40:41 UTC
I fully appreciate the fact that this is eve and that risk is omnipresent (or should be). I also believe that being able to research/copy BPO's while keeping them in a station is practically a no risk situation (aside from trusting the wrong person). But given the theme of "Risk vs. Reward" combined with the immense value, not just in isk but in time, of these BPO's, I really hope that the "reward" for researching in a POS is on a scale comparable to the value at risk.
C C P Alliance
#69 - 2014-04-15 15:41:56 UTC
Xaniff wrote:

2. I predict there will be even more abandoned POSes out hogging all the spaces next to the moons. There needs to be some mechanic for these to be abandoned and destroyed in a reasonable amount of time after running out of fuel and failing to be maintained (like the secure containers that are lost, whether they hold goods or not).


Yeah, that's a good point, we'll note that one down.
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2014-04-15 15:42:38 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Squelch wrote:
Soz if this has already been mentioned, but where you mention the new R.A.M requirements (in your example, you'll need 60 R.A.M where you needed 1 before), that will effectivley de-value any current stocks of R.A.M by a huge amount (example, 60 times less valuable).

Will existing stocks be multiplied to compensate, or is this something that players with R.A.M stocks will just have to deal with?

Additionally, will existing sources of R.A.M items have their drop quantities increased?


but won't it make them more valuable by increasing demand ?

sorry if it's a basic question, but I don't really get involved in the industrial side of eve.
except as a consumer of end products.



One RAM now will become 100 RAM after the patch. The RAM BPOs will output 100RAM instead of one like now with the same min requirements. Market orders will prolly be multiplied by 100 while the asking price per RAM is divided by 100.

I hope they decrease the RAM volume in a similar fashion.
Pandemic Legion
#71 - 2014-04-15 15:42:38 UTC
These changes make sense when industry is done as a hobby. When industry is done on an industrial scale, the proposed changes become a nightmare.
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2014-04-15 15:43:16 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Xaniff wrote:

2. I predict there will be even more abandoned POSes out hogging all the spaces next to the moons. There needs to be some mechanic for these to be abandoned and destroyed in a reasonable amount of time after running out of fuel and failing to be maintained (like the secure containers that are lost, whether they hold goods or not).


Yeah, that's a good point, we'll note that one down.


What, that hasn't been on the table at all, before?
A Band Apart.
#73 - 2014-04-15 15:43:24 UTC
Finally, I'll be able to research all the things without waiting a month or two. Why did I grind my Caldari Faction Standing to 8.0? (Yes, I know, taxes... but that wasn't the intent...)
C C P Alliance
#74 - 2014-04-15 15:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Greyscale
Aliventi wrote:
Quote:
Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original.

Any chance this would also apply to T2 BPOs? Right now it takes longer to make a copy than to just manufacture from the BPO. It would be a great way for a new market to spring up around T2 BPO BPCs and make it easier for new people to get in to T2 manufacturing without having to get in to invention.


That's the current plan, yes.

Weaselior wrote:
also, w/r/t this:

Quote:
Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original.


will you be looking at runs as well? for example, bpcs of capital ship components are hilariously useless as they're capped at 5 runs, so you need to reinstall every eight hours or so if you wanted to use them, a huge slowdown unless you can reinstall like clockwork


This is now on my to-fix list :)
Goonswarm Federation
#75 - 2014-04-15 15:46:45 UTC
How about market tabs for researched BPO's?

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Rote Kapelle
#76 - 2014-04-15 15:48:14 UTC
This may be in the cost scaling blog, but will the 0-14% cost increase be reflected in the UI in some way, or will we have to learn this from our spreadsheets?

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Test Alliance Please Ignore
#77 - 2014-04-15 15:48:51 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Aliventi wrote:
Quote:
Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original.

Any chance this would also apply to T2 BPOs? Right now it takes longer to make a copy than to just manufacture from the BPO. It would be a great way for a new market to spring up around T2 BPO BPCs and make it easier for new people to get in to T2 manufacturing without having to get in to invention.


That's the current plan, yes.

Weaselior wrote:
also, w/r/t this:

Quote:
Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original.


will you be looking at runs as well? for example, bpcs of capital ship components are hilariously useless as they're capped at 5 runs, so you need to reinstall every eight hours or so if you wanted to use them, a huge slowdown unless you can reinstall like clockwork


This is now on my to-fix list :)


I agree with Weaselior's concern, and am pleased to see it being addressed.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Caldari State
#78 - 2014-04-15 15:49:04 UTC
H3llHound wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
Squelch wrote:
Soz if this has already been mentioned, but where you mention the new R.A.M requirements (in your example, you'll need 60 R.A.M where you needed 1 before), that will effectivley de-value any current stocks of R.A.M by a huge amount (example, 60 times less valuable).

Will existing stocks be multiplied to compensate, or is this something that players with R.A.M stocks will just have to deal with?

Additionally, will existing sources of R.A.M items have their drop quantities increased?


but won't it make them more valuable by increasing demand ?

sorry if it's a basic question, but I don't really get involved in the industrial side of eve.
except as a consumer of end products.



One RAM now will become 100 RAM after the patch. The RAM BPOs will output 100RAM instead of one like now with the same min requirements. Market orders will prolly be multiplied by 100 while the asking price per RAM is divided by 100.

I hope they decrease the RAM volume in a similar fashion.


aah, gotcha
I guess I skimmed through that part of the blog a little too quickly

thanks for the explanation.
C C P Alliance
#79 - 2014-04-15 15:49:19 UTC
Yinmatook wrote:
With these Industry changes and now the requirement to place your BPO/BPC out in the POS, I certainly hope that the game client will be able to see what you have out there (you know, like with the Corportation->Assets->Search interface).


Yes the new blueprint browser will show you all blueprints in stations or assembly arrays etc.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Pandemic Legion
#80 - 2014-04-15 15:49:39 UTC
How will cost scaling affect industry in conquerable stations? Will there be unlimited manufacturing/research/etc slots like in npc stations? If so will the station owner still be able to set costs of running jobs?
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