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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Hachi Ironfist
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1881 - 2014-04-13 07:44:02 UTC
I am a bit confused by this quote:

Quote:
Yes, we are going to reduce reprocessing efficiency down by quite a bit, but we are going to keep mining efficiency the same as it is right now by increasing minerals gained from reprocessing ices and ores.


So what they are saying now is that they will increase the amount you get when refining and increase the waste amount as well. Basically after the patch you will get 70ish% yield but around the same amount of minerals ? Or did I read that wrong?
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#1882 - 2014-04-13 08:57:16 UTC
Hachi Ironfist wrote:
I am a bit confused by this quote:

Quote:
Yes, we are going to reduce reprocessing efficiency down by quite a bit, but we are going to keep mining efficiency the same as it is right now by increasing minerals gained from reprocessing ices and ores.


So what they are saying now is that they will increase the amount you get when refining and increase the waste amount as well. Basically after the patch you will get 70ish% yield but around the same amount of minerals ? Or did I read that wrong?


pretty much, unless you got crappy skills then you need to do some training
Hachi Ironfist
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1883 - 2014-04-13 18:17:28 UTC
Firvain wrote:

pretty much, unless you got crappy skills then you need to do some training



What's the difference in resulting minerals ?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1884 - 2014-04-13 19:03:15 UTC
Hachi Ironfist wrote:
Firvain wrote:

pretty much, unless you got crappy skills then you need to do some training



What's the difference in resulting minerals ?



If you have the bare minimum of skills for 100% yield at the moment, you'll have fewer minerals out at the end after the change.

If you have maxed refining skills, and a 4% implant, you'll get the same as you do at the moment.

So most people will get a bit less.

(and a massive reduction on module refining)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Hachi Ironfist
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1885 - 2014-04-14 07:08:00 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hachi Ironfist wrote:
Firvain wrote:

pretty much, unless you got crappy skills then you need to do some training



What's the difference in resulting minerals ?



If you have the bare minimum of skills for 100% yield at the moment, you'll have fewer minerals out at the end after the change.

If you have maxed refining skills, and a 4% implant, you'll get the same as you do at the moment.

So most people will get a bit less.

(and a massive reduction on module refining)



That's great to be honest. For a moment there I thought that the yield will be ~30% less but there would be no mineral increase to compensate for the loss. This means new modules/skills might be coming as stated by ccp which is also awesome. Then I am up for the change.

Also, if what you stated is true then in an outpost you would refine more minerals than you would refine in a high-sec today with 100%, right ?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#1886 - 2014-04-14 07:13:37 UTC
Hachi Ironfist wrote:
That's great to be honest. For a moment there I thought that the yield will be ~30% less but there would be no mineral increase to compensate for the loss. This means new modules/skills might be coming as stated by ccp which is also awesome. Then I am up for the change.

Also, if what you stated is true then in an outpost you would refine more minerals than you would refine in a high-sec today with 100%, right ?
Correct. There's an overview of Reprocessing Yield after the change compared to what's currently 100% in this Google Sheet (copy/download to adjust the values)

NPE – ISD – RIP
Tellana Faa
Advanced Excavators Inc.
#1887 - 2014-04-14 18:48:41 UTC
So nomore perfect refine on ore, the best we can get now even with max skills is going to be 72.4% WTF am I reading that chart right?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#1888 - 2014-04-14 18:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Tellana Faa wrote:
So nomore perfect refine on ore, the best we can get now even with max skills is going to be 72.4% WTF am I reading that chart right?
partially yes, but mostly not.

Clarification:
Create a copy or download it as xlsx/ods and play with the options, like

The percentages state mineral quantity yield post change compared to those pre change (when refining @ 100% yield). At the very bottom of the table is the overall comparison (pretty useless, just for reference).

NPE – ISD – RIP
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#1889 - 2014-04-14 19:25:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Muscaat wrote:
Any plans to undo the Extra Materials hack for T1 production at any point?


Getting closer to the point where we can remove that hack is one of the motivations for these changes, yes.


so how many more years exactly can we expect?

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Tellana Faa
Advanced Excavators Inc.
#1890 - 2014-04-14 20:01:15 UTC
So for regular veldspar as an example ... batch of 100 = 415 trit according to new chart... if we can only get 72.4% (300 units) out of it... what's the point of showing 415 if we're never gunna get that? Are there going to be additional skills so we can keep the 115 or is it just gunna be lost?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#1891 - 2014-04-14 20:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Tellana Faa wrote:
So for regular veldspar as an example ... batch of 100 = 415 trit according to new chart... if we can only get 72.4% (300 units) out of it... what's the point of showing 415 if we're never gunna get that? Are there going to be additional skills so we can keep the 115 or is it just gunna be lost?

Read again and please check out the pictures:
Darkblad wrote:
Tellana Faa wrote:
So nomore perfect refine on ore, the best we can get now even with max skills is going to be 72.4% WTF am I reading that chart right?
partially yes, but mostly not.

Clarification:
Create a copy or download it as xlsx/ods and play with the options, like

The percentages state mineral quantity yield post change compared to those pre change (when refining @ 100% yield). At the very bottom of the table is the overall comparison (pretty useless, just for reference).


Hint:
Array: 312 units
(Minmatar Tier 3) Outpost: 360 units
50 % Station: your 300 units

NPE – ISD – RIP
Tellana Faa
Advanced Excavators Inc.
#1892 - 2014-04-14 21:40:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tellana Faa
Your pics don't explain the answer I'm asking here.... perhaps the DEV is the one that can better explain this
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1893 - 2014-04-14 21:43:57 UTC
Tellana Faa wrote:
So for regular veldspar as an example ... batch of 100 = 415 trit according to new chart... if we can only get 72.4% (300 units) out of it... what's the point of showing 415 if we're never gunna get that? Are there going to be additional skills so we can keep the 115 or is it just gunna be lost?

It's just going to be lost. Under the new system, the 415 number will NEVER be obtainable. You can get closer to this number by using superior facilities, but it will never hit that number.

If that offends you for some reason, I don't really know what to say. It's just a number.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Tellana Faa
Advanced Excavators Inc.
#1894 - 2014-04-14 21:51:01 UTC
Just seems stupid that ccp would redo the quantities to numbers we'll never be able to get with max skills & max facilities
Darkblad
Doomheim
#1895 - 2014-04-14 21:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
that's the point of this change. CCP found that it was sort of stupid to achieve 100 %. We got comfortable with this but it has changed. Now the number is just the quantity that's used to calculated what you actually receive.

Edit: to quote the devblog

"Perfect reprocessing offers no landscape on the sandbox, just a flat, barren plain with small bumps that aren’t that noteworthy in the first place."

NPE – ISD – RIP
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1896 - 2014-04-14 22:57:40 UTC
Tellana Faa wrote:
Just seems stupid that ccp would redo the quantities to numbers we'll never be able to get with max skills & max facilities

It's not stupid -- it's actually pretty smart. Doing this buys them the ability to increase the total maximum yield from ore and ice without having to do a bunch of extra crap every time they wanna do it. The only cost is if you are, for some weird, unknown reason, offended because you can't reach 100%.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Janna Sway
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1897 - 2014-04-14 23:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
Very interesting thread to read.

Most of the things mentioned here I hardly understand because I am no industrialist in Eve. Roll

However, I welcome the upcoming changes in general even though I cannot comprehend what consequences they will have on my Eve-life.
I welcome the changes because changes keep the system in a flow, like a living water stream, a river.
While we all strife "balance" in the system to make things "fair", may I also mention that "total balance" would somewhat destroy the system, make the water stagnate, start to foul and metaphorically kill the flora and fauna of the river, literally kill the fishes, i.e. us.

While the upcoming changes will balance some currently problematic issues, they will however bring imbalance to some other areas, some predictable and some unpredictable.

Good luck to everybody.
Xaniff
The Redneck Gun Club
#1898 - 2014-04-15 12:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Xaniff
I feel that reprocessing an item (such as a Nova Javelin Rocket) shouldn't yield any intermediate components at all such as those intermediate manufacturing goods like Fernite Carbide or Nuclear Pulse Generators. This should always yield only the raw base materials (minerals and moon materials) so that it takes an industrially-focused player to bring these materials back to a more useful form, thus removing any point for further reprocessing of goods.
Blake Bathana
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems Inc
#1899 - 2014-04-15 14:04:24 UTC
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but, why can't there be a Hi-Sec version of the Rorqual where jump and vat capabilities are disabled I would buy the Rorqual straight away OR give the Orca ore compression capabilities.

Just a suggestion!!
Filigor
BioLith Industries
#1900 - 2014-04-15 14:51:48 UTC
Ashla Boga wrote:
"Keep Calm and Carry On"?

Damn it CCP. You're trying to kill the profit of hundreds of salvagers and hundreds of missioners just revolving around Pro Synergy alone. One corp. You're screwing with things that are just going to backfire and increase botting. Everyone wants more bots, right?

You killed drone poo which was a huge spike through the heart of the salvaging community, and gave us bounties on drones instead, which I agree missioners were in love with (despite salvagers losing a lot of profit). Then you removed Meta 0 modules from rat droppings because there was too many minerals in your eyes. Now this.

"Calm down, Mr Director of Salvage Corp Person, it's just a game." Hell no. I'm fired up and pissed off because you're going to decrease profits of new and veteran players salvaging and their missioner friends by obscene amounts with not even the slightest compensation. Even with Scrapmetal V and a 4% implant the yields are going to be crap. Rig changes have done almost nothing to increase profits from the salvaging profession, and behind every Noctis is a real live player. Not a program.

You say you want to reward players who specialize in a career, and ore miners and ice miners are going to be unaffected by this. But module reprocessors like myself and a dozen other faithful admins of the corp have absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY to get even remotely close to 100% yield. Even if you added an Advanced Scrapmetal Reprocessing we'd still be far off. That's not helping a specialized player, it's slapping them in the F***ing face. Our admins have trained OVER a month of skills to be the best at what they do for their customers, but not that will all be way more than wasted. Ore miners didn't have to go anywhere near this kind of training to be 100%. Dig a little deeper before you go killing professions off, CCP.


It's true. Indeed all of them are real players who do monotonous work every day.
CCP, please, fair rules for all!