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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

First post First post
Author
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
#621 - 2014-04-03 12:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Well if you have drone interfacing 5 and sentry drone interfacing 5 you can already use t2, so at the point you could use them nearly as effective as T2, you can also use T2.

Faction sentry drones are very good but if you lose 25M every time you have to gtfo in a sentry ship in pvp, you might consider skill for T2. Blink

Edit: I even agree that the improvements to faction sentry range are excellent, since with them it finally only comes down to raw dps vs tracking/EHP(and a bit more ISK) if you chose between T2 and faction sentry drones, for a specific task.

Edit2: There might be a reason why I had a lot of suggestions(that where all ignored) during the introduction of faction drones 3 years ago and now CCP actually addressing most of the flaws I pointed out back in the days, that they should be rather a good option compared to T2 drones, depending on what you want to do, instead of becoming pointless the second you can use T2 drones. Straight

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

King Fu Hostile
Shiva Furnace
#622 - 2014-04-03 13:09:13 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Well if you have drone interfacing 5 and sentry drone interfacing 5 you can already use t2, so at the point you could use them nearly as effective as T2, you can also use T2.

Faction sentry drones are very good but if you lose 25M every time you have to gtfo in a sentry ship in pvp, you might consider skill for T2. Blink

Edit: I even agree that the improvements to faction sentry range are excellent, since with them it finally only comes down to raw dps vs tracking/EHP(and a bit more ISK) if you chose between T2 and faction sentry drones, for a specific task.


Point is that I'm not certain how lucrative the T2 dps "advantage" is, especially considering the training time you need to get the full 10%. 8% is not much when you have less tracking. Without racial specs to at least IV, you're probably better off using faction drones. All specs at V is what, about two months of training with optimized attributes and +5s.

Which will make cloaky stabbed FW farmers very happy indeed.



seth Hendar
I love you miners
#623 - 2014-04-03 13:09:59 UTC
Aerozzz wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm kind of wondering though just how much two extra low slots for tank actually helps these small guys when their supers get caught.


The TRI super you recently tackled probably wouldn't have survived the DDs from the titans, if he had 2 less tank modules in the lows.

seth Hendar wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

stuff...

pl ranting about isboxer.....like really?

it's not like pl is using it massively.....hint: PHEW


1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer

Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P

there are more than one, just this is the one i came accross on a regular basis
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
#624 - 2014-04-03 13:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
King Fu Hostile wrote:
The Djego wrote:
Well if you have drone interfacing 5 and sentry drone interfacing 5 you can already use t2, so at the point you could use them nearly as effective as T2, you can also use T2.

Faction sentry drones are very good but if you lose 25M every time you have to gtfo in a sentry ship in pvp, you might consider skill for T2. Blink

Edit: I even agree that the improvements to faction sentry range are excellent, since with them it finally only comes down to raw dps vs tracking/EHP(and a bit more ISK) if you chose between T2 and faction sentry drones, for a specific task.


Point is that I'm not certain how lucrative the T2 dps "advantage" is, especially considering the training time you need to get the full 10%. 8% is not much when you have less tracking. Without racial specs to at least IV, you're probably better off using faction drones. All specs at V is what, about two months of training with optimized attributes and +5s.

Which will make cloaky stabbed FW farmers very happy indeed.





Well a T2 sentry cost you 1.2-1.5M, a faction one 5-6.5M each. If you carry 2 waves on a drone boat this means a extra 40M just in drones, what is a considerable cost in pvp. Also since you don't have Sentry drone Interfacing to 5 at the point you use faction ones for skill reasons the difference is 13-15%, what is still a lot(I got mini and gallente spec on 5 on multiple chars, because you will use a set of light mini or gallente drones on nearly every ship you fly). I never looked back at training sentry drone spec to 5 on any of my chars, it is fairly comparable with training a large turret spec to 5 in usefulness and saves tons of ISK whenever you lose some sentry drones or the hole ship.

Btw Fozzy has yet to decide what to do with caladri and amarr drones, the changes so far are not useful enough, caldari sentry's have a super long range niche(maybe for mjd BS) and while amarr sentry drones gain some ground, only useful changes to the other drones as well would give a good reason to put the skill to 5.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

Methonash Qorranto
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#625 - 2014-04-03 13:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Methonash Qorranto
King Fu Hostile wrote:

Point is that I'm not certain how lucrative the T2 dps "advantage" is, especially considering the training time you need to get the full 10%. 8% is not much when you have less tracking. Without racial specs to at least IV, you're probably better off using faction drones.


Exactly - with this new patch, the motivation to train from tech1/faction (which is in many cases equal-to or even superior to tech2 sentries, not counting the racial spec skills) to tech2 sentries diminishes greatly.

For a PVP-oriented sentry pilot, there will likely be *zero* motivation to train for tech2 sentries--and for those of us who did train for tech2's, our training time investment has largely gone down the proverbial drain.

This is a point I have tried to articulate repeatedly in this thread.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
#626 - 2014-04-03 13:38:29 UTC
Currently with the lack of range there was nearly never a good reason to use faction sentry drones in pvp for people that can use T2s already and not everyone getting all her stuff from her alliance SRP, if you have to stuff another 40M in every domi or Ishar you pvp with, you might think about investing the extra 20 days, what gives you 5% more dps with both, what still leaves you the faction option but also gives you a high dps T2 option, what is cheaper and more frequently available in low sec and 0.0 on the markets.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

stoicfaux
#627 - 2014-04-03 13:53:02 UTC
In other words, by making Faction drones just as good as, if not better, than T2 drones in terms of general performance and accessibility (i.e. skill training time,) CCP has indirectly nerfed the null-sec cartels' shadow CSM's moon goo income by reducing the market for T2 sentry drones.

Who wants to give Dinsdale the good news that CCP is on the side of high-sec?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#628 - 2014-04-03 14:10:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
BraiZure Harloon wrote:
On the smaller scale did I miss a modification to drone damage based ships? If not looks like I'm getting closer to quitting eve, because my max skill Arbitrator just got it's DPS cut by over a 25%. Hammer Head IIs x5 +33% base damage increase -50% Drone Interfacing = -27%. Please tell me I am missing something or my math is wrong because last I checked anything over a 25% damage reduction is a total nerf?
On a side note I saw nothing about removing or reducing stacking penalty from Ewar and Combat Util drones leaving them still useless.


Your math is flawed.

Currently you can look at the way drone interfacing interacts with base drone damage as: 1 x 2 = 2
After this change it will be: 1.33(repeating) x 1.5 = 2


Is 1.9999 repeating the same thing as 2? PPP
Abigail Sagan
Skeleton Liberation Front
#629 - 2014-04-03 14:20:30 UTC
seller1122 wrote:
I'm sure its must have been mentioned else where in the thread but i do not believe this cause caldari or amarr drones to be used more.

The issue is the gall are best for dps and the mintar are best for speed, there is never really a situation where you'd need to go for a mid-ground solution.

Ideally you would want to make the ammar drones identical to the mintar ones but using em instead of explosive and you would want to be make the caldari ones identical to the gall except kinetic. That way you would have a true choice of damage types to be dealing based upon your situation.



Too long, didn't read. Rebalance the drones already! .. Oh, this is actually about drone rebalance. Finally! After reading it all, we can however see that the Amarr and Caldari drones won't still have any use - like many have said here already.

Here is my solution suggestion for the regular Amarr/Caldari drone suckage (exactly the same as seller1122's apparently and shares some similarities with Tippia's on page 6):

Amarr/Minmatar light drones share the same stats except for damage type at high speed and low damage end. Caldari and Gallente light drones share their stats similarly at the low speed and high damage end. Repeat the process with medium and heavy drones.

I chose Amarr to pair up with Minmatar, because both target a defense weakness (EM vs most Shields, EX vs most Armor). Caldari was paired with Gallente just because they don't have any especially vulnerable targets and there is nobody else to pair them with.

Pro: All the regular drones would have their use.
Con: Duplicated stats.
.. but at least all the regular drones would have their use. That is not the case with CCP's plan.

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#630 - 2014-04-03 14:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#631 - 2014-04-03 14:56:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Erasmus Phoenix
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Good call, I don't really see any problems with this, other than the possibility of someone training up combat drone operation I and scout drone operation V in order to get the best possible return. I'll probably be doing that on a couple of my alts-in-training, to be honest.

EDIT:

Actually, this does raise an additional question for me - what skill is going to unlock the drone link augmenters after the change?

the most sensible thing to me would probably be moving them to Drone Avionics, they fit that skill's title and bonuses.
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#632 - 2014-04-03 15:04:38 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Is 1.9999 repeating the same thing as 2? PPP
You sir, are asking the real questions here! Blink

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#633 - 2014-04-03 15:05:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Maz3r Rakum
Not sure if this is mentioned elsewhere, but seeing the Sentry Damage Rig changed to a Drone Damage rig would make a lot of sense (or merely add a combat drone damage rig).

Before DDA, the Sentry Damage Rig was the only way to increase any drone's dps (limited to sentries of course). Now that drones have similar mods to the other weapons, it would make sense that all combat drones have a similar t2 rig.

edit- Another simple addition would be Drone Implants...
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
The Watchmen.
#634 - 2014-04-03 15:06:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.

Which skill will now cover Drone Link Augmentors? Will that move over to the Avionics skill?

Heh, just noticed "Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor" is already listed there, as only module that requires Scout Drone Operation.
Callisto Helix
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#635 - 2014-04-03 15:07:54 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, I have Scout Drone Operation V & Combat Drone Operation IV currently. When the expansion goes live I'll have Light & Medium Drone Operation both at V?
Altaen
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#636 - 2014-04-03 15:12:02 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Will Drone Interfacing still be 5x training multiplier in it's new diminished form?
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#637 - 2014-04-03 15:19:21 UTC
Mostly good changes


Now can we have drone AI that isn't composed of a few simple scripts? :P

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Rikard Nomm
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#638 - 2014-04-03 15:20:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


great. wasted a day of training on 2 characters plugging in CDO V yesterday and both already have SDO V. now im at work and cant stop it for the rest of the day.

whelp, DI V, Sentry V, Heavy V are feeling like a bit of wasted SP on my 13m SP char now and now i get to burn 2 more days on a skill that i dont need at all! Yay!
Cisen Ormand
4 Marketeers
Rura-Penthe
#639 - 2014-04-03 15:29:58 UTC
Quote:
Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, I have Scout Drone Operation V & Combat Drone Operation IV currently. When the expansion goes live I'll have Light & Medium Drone Operation both at V?


I also would like conformation on this. I am in the same situation (scout drone op 5, combat drone op 4.)

After the update Ill have light and medium drone op both at 5 and now will suddenly be able to fit the T2 drone link augmenter?

Please confirm. Thanks.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#640 - 2014-04-03 15:52:32 UTC
Rikard Nomm wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


great. wasted a day of training on 2 characters plugging in CDO V yesterday and both already have SDO V. now im at work and cant stop it for the rest of the day.

whelp, DI V, Sentry V, Heavy V are feeling like a bit of wasted SP on my 13m SP char now and now i get to burn 2 more days on a skill that i dont need at all! Yay!


This. Put in CDO V to get ahead of the patch like when they separated the BC skill into racials. I can say Rikard that once you reach a certain number of skill points, losing 1 day doesn't really matter and you come to cherish the times when it only takes a week to train the skill to V

On an unrelated note this whole thread has been rather amusing.