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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

First post First post
Author
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#601 - 2014-04-03 09:57:30 UTC
I just want to say that changing Sentry Drone Operation to Drone Avionics is NOT clarify its role. If clarification is the goal then Keep Sentry Drone Operation named as such, since it is the required skill to Operate sentry drones.

It is slightly confusing how Amarr drones are rated towards Minmatar on the slider for mobile drones and towards Gallente for sentry. One would naturally assume they would be in the same place on both graphs.

There is no mention of the disparity in hit points between the different racial drones.
Examples:
Hammerhead II - 710/288/134 = 1132
Infiltrator II - 403/288/96 = 787
Valkrie II - 346/230/154 = 730
Vespa II - 326/211/250 = 787

There is a clear disparity here that should be addressed in any drone rebalance.

That said, if this is an april fools joke, you got me.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Dyntheos
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#602 - 2014-04-03 09:59:38 UTC
didnt read all the 30 pages, so might have been brought up before..

1) with supercarriers getting a 100% role bonus, isnt this a stealth buff for them as their DCUs will be twice as effective as before? or do people not use them?

2) 60% tracking bonus for bouncers (rest changes only slightly) seems rather much, considering they are together with gardes sentry gangs' most used drone (and will likely remain that way) and already quite powerful.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#603 - 2014-04-03 10:01:00 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
I just want to say that changing Sentry Drone Operation to Drone Avionics is NOT clarify its role.
Maybe because that's not what they're doing.
BraiZure Harloon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#604 - 2014-04-03 10:04:09 UTC
On the smaller scale did I miss a modification to drone damage based ships? If not looks like I'm getting closer to quitting eve, because my max skill Arbitrator just got it's DPS cut by over a 25%. Hammer Head IIs x5 +33% base damage increase -50% Drone Interfacing = -27%. Please tell me I am missing something or my math is wrong because last I checked anything over a 25% damage reduction is a total nerf?
On a side note I saw nothing about removing or reducing stacking penalty from Ewar and Combat Util drones leaving them still useless.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#605 - 2014-04-03 10:29:04 UTC
BraiZure Harloon wrote:
On the smaller scale did I miss a modification to drone damage based ships? If not looks like I'm getting closer to quitting eve, because my max skill Arbitrator just got it's DPS cut by over a 25%. Hammer Head IIs x5 +33% base damage increase -50% Drone Interfacing = -27%. Please tell me I am missing something or my math is wrong because last I checked anything over a 25% damage reduction is a total nerf?
On a side note I saw nothing about removing or reducing stacking penalty from Ewar and Combat Util drones leaving them still useless.


Your math is flawed.

Currently you can look at the way drone interfacing interacts with base drone damage as: 1 x 2 = 2
After this change it will be: 1.33(repeating) x 1.5 = 2

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

The Ironfist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#606 - 2014-04-03 10:36:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie any ETA on when you'll release the stats on the new modules? Especially the faction versions?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#607 - 2014-04-03 10:37:32 UTC
just remove all ewar drones. damage and logistics drones (make cap transfer drones pls) are enough.
Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#608 - 2014-04-03 10:55:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dav Varan
concerning standard drones, what way will tracking and optimal / falloff progress across the races ?

Will tracking follow damage and range follow speed ?

It would make sense that slow drones would be optimised for slower targets and end up orbiting therefore tracking.
It would make sense that fast drones would be optimised for fast targets and end up chasing therefore optimal/fall off.

or something different ?
Luscius Uta
#609 - 2014-04-03 10:57:02 UTC
Finally, Fozzie makes some changes that I almost completely agree with! Big smile

But of course I still managed to found few things to complain about - while it's good that Amarr and Caldari drones will stop being useless, you're doing it wrong, Fozzie. People will still use Gallente drones for damage and Minmatar drones when they want speed and Amarr and Caldari drones are still going to be inferior to them (save from some specific situations, like fighting Tengu fleets), unless you realise that there's more stuff in the drone equation than just speed and damage. Why not give the best tank to Caldari drones and best tracking to Amarr drones (or the other way around)?

Splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills is hardly going to make drone usage less skill-intensive, since it's gonna add one more week of training (unless Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation will have 1x traning time multiplier, which I think would be more appropriate than 2x). Yes, I know you could train Combat Drone Operation V to make this issue non-relevant, but there'll be newer players and maybe even your alts coming to EVE after this change and this will affect them.

Changes to fighters and bombers are the most controversial undoubtely, especially how DDAs will now affect them. For Fighters I think it's still a good thing as they need some love. Hopefully this will make Drone regions less deserted as some Nyx pilots will go leaps and bounds just to put an officer DDA on their ship. Fighters still deserve another buff (like +20% damage) since their main use now is to assist ratting Tengus and, aside from being able to warp, they hardly have any advantage over Heavies and Sentries in PvP. also it's good to see Shadow bombers getting some love, hopefully you also plan to buff the Revenant to make it more en par with pirate subcapital ships and less of a Rolex watch. Also can't wait for those faction DDAs to come out so I can put them on my ratting Gila, Ishtar and Rattlesnake.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Aerozzz
Afragoi Ltd
#610 - 2014-04-03 11:00:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerozzz
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm kind of wondering though just how much two extra low slots for tank actually helps these small guys when their supers get caught.


The TRI super you recently tackled probably wouldn't have survived the DDs from the titans, if he had 2 less tank modules in the lows.

seth Hendar wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

stuff...

pl ranting about isboxer.....like really?

it's not like pl is using it massively.....hint: PHEW


1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer

Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#611 - 2014-04-03 11:01:32 UTC
Morning CCP Fozzie, Any chance of looking into the activation proximity stats? Pretty much all of the non-sentry drones / fighters have an activation proximity that is lower than their optimal / falloff, in theory this prevents drones from applying their earliest damage to a target while on approach.
King Fu Hostile
Descendant Command
#612 - 2014-04-03 11:07:58 UTC
GeeBee wrote:
Morning CCP Fozzie, Any chance of looking into the activation proximity stats? Pretty much all of the non-sentry drones / fighters have an activation proximity that is lower than their optimal / falloff, in theory this prevents drones from applying their earliest damage to a target while on approach.


This was actually the fix that drones needed.

Solecist Project
#613 - 2014-04-03 11:09:35 UTC
How in hell does the word Avionics clarify anything, when most people will have no idea what the word even means?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Doc Banshee
Quam Singulari
#614 - 2014-04-03 11:44:31 UTC
Aerozzz wrote:
[


1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer

Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P



Strider doesn't count. Hes a lowsec scrub like me.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#615 - 2014-04-03 11:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
TrouserDeagle wrote:
make cap transfer drones pls


Yes pls. Cap drones would be really usefull
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#616 - 2014-04-03 12:10:25 UTC
Doc Banshee wrote:
Aerozzz wrote:
[


1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer

Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P



Strider doesn't count. Hes a lowsec scrub like me.


all are scrubs
Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#617 - 2014-04-03 12:16:21 UTC
I never understood why you wanted mwd on drones anyways.

Makes them clunk around when trying to engage fast targets.

Take this opportunity to remove drone mwd and give em high top speeds on the order of maybe upto 8k for t2 warriors.
Make there agility somewhat less that a typical fast frig.

Frig runs in a straight line it gets gunned down.
Frig evades, drones have trouble keeping up.
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#618 - 2014-04-03 12:17:51 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
Splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills is hardly going to make drone usage less skill-intensive, since it's gonna add one more week of training (unless Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation will have 1x traning time multiplier, which I think would be more appropriate than 2x). Yes, I know you could train Combat Drone Operation V to make this issue non-relevant, but there'll be newer players and maybe even your alts coming to EVE after this change and this will affect them.


This inconsistency between "We want to make it less skill intensive" and "we're moving the training from a 1x skill into two 2x skills" is one of my problems with these proposed changes. i'm still baffled that there's been absolutely no attempt to address the issues around which skills are actually going to unlock light and medium drones.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
#619 - 2014-04-03 12:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Tippia wrote:

It's like this:

Before:
Garde I — 50 damage ×1.60 modifier ×1.8 (Drone Interfacing IV) ×1.05 (Sentry Interfacing I) = 151.2 damage at minimum skills.
Garde I — 50 damage ×1.60 modifier ×2 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) = 200 damage at max skills.
Garde II — 50 damage ×1.92 modifier ×2 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) = 240 damage at max skills.

After:
Garde I — 64 damage ×1.7 modifier ×1.4 (DI IV) ×1.05 (SI I) = 159.9 damage at minimum skills.
Garde I — 64 damage ×1.7 modifier ×1.5 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) = 204 damage at max skills.
Garde II — 64 damage ×1.7 modifier ×1.5 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) ×1.1 (Gal. Drone Spec V) = 224.4 damage at max skills.

T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills (6% better at minimum skills); T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP).


So my exploration Ishtar is going to do 748 DPS instead of its current 800 DPS, assuming I train for 19 days to get Gallente spec up to 5. That blows. Starting to look like its gonna take 19 days and 400mil in faction DDAs to make my Garde IIs perform the same as they do now. And I still won't be able to control them via F1-F5 like any other weapon in game. Or move around while using them. Arg.


Given the cost of T2 sentries and the training needed to get to Sentry V to qualify, I can see the use of T2 sentries dropping off as more and more newer players look at it and decide to stick with T1. T2 probably are barely worth it under new rules unless you already have them trained.

If I get the gist of the original blog what they wanted is new players to be able to train interfacing to IV and Sentry to IV and still be almost as effective as a fully skilled player. Currently taking those two skills from IV to V gives you something like a 50% total damage hike.


With sentry drone interfacing 4(5%), drone interfacing 4(10%) and without the spec skill(10%) you will be 25% under the max dps. 25% is still a very big amount of dps(comparable to useing meta 4 guns with faction ammo to T2 ones with max dps T2 ammo) and well worth getting, plus the extra range, HP and tracking on T2 sentry drones is a extreme good improvement over T1 without even looking at the extra dps.

Edit: @Fozzy can you give me a feedback on the option to shrink caldari and amarr drones to 4, 7.5 and 20 m³ each and/or give them more tracking and double here EHP in the shield/armor layer to make them a interesting option depending on the drone band wide/drone bay of the ship or if you expect to lose some to smart bombs or solo/small gang pvp, where spares can be very handy, similar as I posted on page 9? I think that would be a great way to make them quite a interesting option, without directly forcing them to compete with mini/gallente drones for max speed or dps.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

King Fu Hostile
Descendant Command
#620 - 2014-04-03 12:47:15 UTC
The Djego wrote:


With sentry drone interfacing 4(5%), drone interfacing 4(10%) and without the spec skill(10%) you will be 25% under the max dps. 25% is still a very big amount of dps(comparable to useing meta 4 guns with faction ammo to T2 ones with max dps T2 ammo) and well worth getting, plus the extra range, HP and tracking on T2 sentry drones is a extreme good improvement over T1 without even looking at the extra dps.


True, but then there's the Faction Sentries with equal dps (without the racial 10%) and range, but better EHP and tracking.

FW loyalty point stores needed a buff, right Blink