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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

First post First post First post
Author
Mario Putzo
#821 - 2014-03-21 16:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Crappeshotte wrote:
TLDR, but I have a question for the Devs...

I own junk - ships and modules - across four hisec regions which I have bought specifically for the purposes of reprocessing. If I were to reprocess them all today - which isn't practical - they would convert into perhaps 20 billion ISK worth of minerals.

If I understand correctly - and I accept that I may not - after this change is introduced, the quantity of minerals I'd get back - and hence their value - would be dramatically less, even if I skilled up to the max (I'm currently at Scrapmetal Processing 4, Refining 5 and Refinery Efficiency 5) and despite having 8.0+ standing with two NPC Corps.

Am I missing something here, or is a lot of time and financial investment about to be wiped out?


You are losing about 30% of your end of the day yield. So if you buy junk to reprocess and flip you are basically cutting about 1/3rd of your baseline +profit margin, so your 20B looks more like 13.6B (give or take) and there is no way around that. Unlike mining that is getting its refining process relocated, reprocessing of modules/ships is being nerfed outright.

Additionally this applies to people who actually spend time looting missions, they will experience the same reduction, and if they live on that for production means (most low sec mission runners) they will now need to run roughly 33% more missions to acquire the same output as before.

Direct nerf to Looting Missions, and Reprocessing junk items thats it. Mining is getting slightly buffed, and Nullsec is being put on a pedestal because they can't be assed to put in the effort to mine/produce their own crap. Despite this being pilot choice because its inefficient isk./hr compared to Plexing or setting up a passive moongoo farm.
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#822 - 2014-03-21 16:34:19 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
what i don't get is ... if you see how much better entity A's margins will be over entity B, why not ... join entity A? the only reasons I can come up with are RP.

cause some people play this as a game and not a way of life unlike null sec alliances who seem to think they can dictate your qu's and all your free time.
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#823 - 2014-03-21 16:36:17 UTC
Teshania wrote:
Love the changes!!!

2 things caught my eye and made me sigh,
1) Refining Arrays Just doing max regardless of skills. (Why train, just drop and pos and move on with life, It breaks the system you are trying to implement)
2) Compression, the Roq is back to being useless, you had it shining again for 30secs, then said don't worry you can us a POS module.

I love it cause it prevents Modules as the primary means of transporting minerals for mass production. But you went and nerfed ships that need to the heart and soul of operations!

My suggestions

1) Move the Refining Arrays out of the POS and make them Deployable Objects, and have then refine based on the user of the object!

2) MAKE THE Roqual Worth something! It needs to have its nitch that is not being shared with a POS or deployable object.

well they still let it boost in poses
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#824 - 2014-03-21 16:40:34 UTC
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
So, as a lowsec builder, what I'm getting is that I have to either run around picking up ore, or give part of my margin to some ******* who's willing to compress it for me. Also, I need a tower in lowsec to keep up with the joneses. Also, anybody who builds in sov null and jumps the finished product to low can crush me.

I'm not going to threaten to leave the game or anything, but if you're going to **** my livelihood from three directions at once you could at least not be all condescending about how nobody has anything to worry about.

oh i feel for you low bro's but don't worry soon enough ccp will tell us that goonz own the rights to the game
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#825 - 2014-03-21 16:41:26 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm just glad I don't rely on mining or missioning every month.


I rely on missioning.

Incursions are much more miss that hit these days with the fact that most of the time there is only one high sec incursion up, or none. Coupled with the fact that plexes are going insane in prices, and a billion a pop is quite realistic once the skins program hits full stride, I really don't know how I will pay for my 2 plexes. I fired up 2nd char training on my last account for a char destined for small ship/small gang warfare. But frankly, that plan looks dead now with the huge loss in mission income plus the equally huge spike in plex prices.

The cartels and CCP get their wish, another casual player cuts back on their gameplay, income to CCP be damned.
Matalino
#826 - 2014-03-21 16:41:28 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Crappeshotte wrote:
TLDR, but I have a question for the Devs...

I own junk - ships and modules - across four hisec regions which I have bought specifically for the purposes of reprocessing. If I were to reprocess them all today - which isn't practical - they would convert into perhaps 20 billion ISK worth of minerals.

If I understand correctly - and I accept that I may not - after this change is introduced, the quantity of minerals I'd get back - and hence their value - would be dramatically less, even if I skilled up to the max (I'm currently at Scrapmetal Processing 4, Refining 5 and Refinery Efficiency 5) and despite having 8.0+ standing with two NPC Corps.

Am I missing something here, or is a lot of time and financial investment about to be wiped out?

fortunately for you, they've announced this change months in advance

Exactly. You have several months before the change goes into effect, during which you can clear out your inventory. Update your buying price to reflect the new mineral content of the modules after the change. It will take a while for prices to adjust, but once they have you can resume business as usual.

If anything this is a long-term boost to those who specialize in this business model because the barrier of entry has increased from Scrapmetal Processing 4 to Scrapmetal Processing 5.
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#827 - 2014-03-21 16:42:34 UTC
Nex Killer wrote:
mkint wrote:
hopielee hopielie wrote:
jeep hearing that the PoS will compete with the roqu. it will not, because if you are in high or low sec, finding a moon will be a problem(high sec standings may as well). but in null you would need a ship to carry the compressed ores, and have a tank, so think the rorq will be fine.

Can't use rorq in high. Anywhere else you always do rorqual compression in the pos shield anyway. And anywhere you've already got a POS shield, save yourself the fuel cost and just run the pos mod. Highsec POSes aren't that hard to get anyway, but it's a useful thing that most people don't realize it.


I don't get why they just didn't make the Orca into a mini Rorq that lets you compress in highsec.

i might actually use my orca again
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#828 - 2014-03-21 16:43:22 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
because it's already a mini carrier :-3

<3 <3 orcas


how so?
Crappeshotte
Sehmosh Industrial Security Inc
#829 - 2014-03-21 16:47:23 UTC
Matalino wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Crappeshotte wrote:
TLDR, but I have a question for the Devs...

I own junk - ships and modules - across four hisec regions which I have bought specifically for the purposes of reprocessing. If I were to reprocess them all today - which isn't practical - they would convert into perhaps 20 billion ISK worth of minerals.

If I understand correctly - and I accept that I may not - after this change is introduced, the quantity of minerals I'd get back - and hence their value - would be dramatically less, even if I skilled up to the max (I'm currently at Scrapmetal Processing 4, Refining 5 and Refinery Efficiency 5) and despite having 8.0+ standing with two NPC Corps.

Am I missing something here, or is a lot of time and financial investment about to be wiped out?

fortunately for you, they've announced this change months in advance

Exactly. You have several months before the change goes into effect, during which you can clear out your inventory. Update your buying price to reflect the new mineral content of the modules after the change. It will take a while for prices to adjust, but once they have you can resume business as usual.

If anything this is a long-term boost to those who specialize in this business model because the barrier of entry has increased from Scrapmetal Processing 4 to Scrapmetal Processing 5.



A 45% reduction on return for my time and money is not a very attractive prospect.

In the meantime, I have a little hauling to conduct...
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#830 - 2014-03-21 16:48:24 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4365984#post4365984

i just think if it means moving, joining someone else, maybe it should be considered. if you're capable of building ships and making it happen on your own, I imagine there are people who will have you.


I don't want to move and join other people. I am happy where I am. If null sec people are having a hard time finding warm bodies to do things for them, perhaps they should change their politics can not whine to CCP to change the game.

actually, it sounds like your not happy where you are because even the slightest change made you unhappy
maybe you should contemplate branching out from just reprocessing mission loot, there's a wide world out there


Taking nearly 30% of a yield is not a small change by any means, I now have to do 30% more to match miners who now have to do 10% less (assuming they take the 2 minutes to find a new favorable refining station), and null folks who do practically nothing to suckle on the teet of R32/R64 Passive moongoo.

I shouldn't have to contemplate branching out, I shouldn't have to contemplate moving, the only reason for this change is to appease null sec groups and CCP's ridiculous fascination with reading news reports about how 4K nolifes spent 18 hours fighting in .01% real time.

I get you are Goonie, and have blued 3/4 of EVE already, but I don't feel that forcing folks to kiss a ring of a null lord is promoting emergent game play. It makes no sense and only further decreases the value of living and operating in Low Security space.


didn't you know if we are not kissing mattani ass and bending over backwards to give goonz free kills we are not playing the game right
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#831 - 2014-03-21 16:51:22 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
they're trying to see how ****** they can make the game for miners before they realize their life sucks


its a test to see how far they can destroy the game b4 players say f uck this and quit
Rain6637
NulzSec
#832 - 2014-03-21 16:51:52 UTC
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#833 - 2014-03-21 16:52:41 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Quote:
this added with the removal of PoS fuels from high sec.


What world do you live in? I still see ice belts and planets to do pi at in highsec. We have the SAME ice belt mechanics in null as you do in empire.


won't argue ice has been broken and still is broken
Rain6637
NulzSec
#834 - 2014-03-21 16:53:25 UTC
ok let me turn the doll around. was it anywhere on this side?
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#835 - 2014-03-21 16:53:27 UTC
Think about the fact that a skill that gives you 2% per level seems to give you nothing.
Seriously a 10% bonus after you waited days or month...
And think about the fact that diference between a guy that have a skill at 4 and guy that have a skill at 5 is only 2% . It is hard .

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#836 - 2014-03-21 16:55:34 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Regarding the Minmatar Outpost providing no advantage over the other racial ones when it's not upgraded, that's a good point, will look into that one.


yes i second that there should be an intrinsic bonus for non upgraded systems.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#837 - 2014-03-21 16:58:42 UTC
mynnna wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Melek D'Ivri wrote:
Then make your recruiters do their stinking jobs and get 3 day old guys in ventures out there mining that crap. 1,000 guys in Ventures have to be better than your trit-drip you see. With changes to corp members allowed you guys have plenty of free space to get them doing gruntwork and still pay them worth their time.


Don't forget that CCP already dropped their shorts to the Goons when they added trit and pyerite to the mid grade ores a while back. Does anyone remember King windbag's pompous diatribe about farms and fields?

I guess that didn't work so now we have to try to rig the game some more to enable these people to be even more lazy than they already are. I invite anyone here to stop listening to the Goonswarm windbags who flood these forums with their crybaby antics and pick any path through null sec and visit system after system of belts that are never touched by a mining laser. Billions upon billions in ore and ice that never gets touched by a player. Yet all we see is post after post about how these people can't get enough minerals to make their precious supercaps. It is comical that these supposedly hardcore players who control hundreds of systems and have 20,000 members can't manage to put together a few billion tritanium.

And to top it all off, it is the "carebear" that is ruining the game! When exactly will CCP's catering to these people stop? Does it know no bounds?


So querns already made the point that you don't seem to get how asteroid belts work, so let's attack the rest of your premise. Imagine thescenario. You are a three day old newbie in an alliance well known for loving its newbies. You're looking for something to do, so do you a) start training down a pointless dead end training path (considering you want to pvp) and grab a venture, then go mining for 5m isk/hr? b) Run around behind a veteran looting his ratting sites for what is certainly more than that? c) bug a mentor for a stack of free frigates, have fun PvPing, then say something adorable on voice comms and get showered with more isk than you think you can possibly ever use (really, a couple hundred million) because of it?

Hint: The answer is not A.

And to squash the typical and hilariously wrong response I always see, the answer still does not become A if the person looking to buy the minerals just doubles the price he's willing to pay, because if you need some minerals are you going to a) offer to pay twice the going price just so you can get them locally or b) import them from empire in one of any of the readily available compressed forms?

Hint: The answer is, once again, not A.

Just to cap things off, none of this changes if we're talking about a veteran player, except the activities are more like A) jump into your mackinaw and, realizing you've trained yourself down a dead-end training path, drink yourself into a stupor while mining these "pristine belts" for (at best) about 35m/hr b) run around as the veteran newbies follow around, ratting for a minimum of 60m/hr or c) Go out and have fun PvPing, knowing that if you die, you'll actually make money because of the corp reimbursement policies. Or, d), **** off to FW lowsec on an alt and farm the missions for far more isk/hr than anything you'll do in your own space... but that's a different topic entirely.

Answer? Still not A, sorry.

In case you weren't aware, grav sites (the scanner based mining sites) respawn pretty much instantly if they're fully mined out. In other words, it's not like a lack of ore is why "we can't get enough minerals" - it's got everything to do with mining simply not being a worthwhile task.

Lemmih AI wrote:
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Do all the people in empire not realize that 78.2% refine after patch will be the same 100% refine they are currently getting? Empire isn't getting nerfed null is getting a slight buff.
Yes, they realize this. What you fail to realize is that with the skills that people in empire are currently using to get a 100% refine (Refining 5, RE 5, Ore 4, no implant), they will only get 68.31%, or a 12.7% loss compared to now. If they really believed that mining doesn't need a nerf right now, they'd adjust the ore composition to the 68.31% value rather than the elusive 78.2% value.


Oh no, now you'll have to train your skills up to their maximum level and use implants to achieve your fullest potential, just like every other activity in the game!Shocked

and look its are local goon rep
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#838 - 2014-03-21 16:59:30 UTC
Crappeshotte wrote:
TLDR, but I have a question for the Devs...

I own junk - ships and modules - across four hisec regions which I have bought specifically for the purposes of reprocessing. If I were to reprocess them all today - which isn't practical - they would convert into perhaps 20 billion ISK worth of minerals.

If I understand correctly - and I accept that I may not - after this change is introduced, the quantity of minerals I'd get back - and hence their value - would be dramatically less, even if I skilled up to the max (I'm currently at Scrapmetal Processing 4, Refining 5 and Refinery Efficiency 5) and despite having 8.0+ standing with two NPC Corps.

Am I missing something here, or is a lot of time and financial investment about to be wiped out?


It will if you sit on your butt until summer and do nothing. Just because its not practical to refine them now doesn't mean you can't gather up what you've bought and unload them or reprocess them yourself between now and then.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#839 - 2014-03-21 17:00:39 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Ytterbium, if the Minmatar Outpost once fully upgraded is the new "100%" could the numbers not be adjusted to reflect this? Some players may (and probably will) get extremely cranky to invest so much time and isk into getting there refining to perfect skills and implants only to see they refine at 86.8%


We want to leave a waste margin if and when future changes are needed.

Regarding the Minmatar Outpost providing no advantage over the other racial ones when it's not upgraded, that's a good point, will look into that one.

Well, I think this sums up my concerns, looks like a great change.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#840 - 2014-03-21 17:00:47 UTC
Rastlor wrote:
A possible fix for this to me appears simple - make JF's unable to carry compressed ore.

In this way the Rorq has a use (outside of sitting in a POS or for seeding a region with SBUs), people actually have to put something at risk e.g. freighters jumping compressed ore into Low sec to the waiting Rorq etc in order to be able to get the benefit of importing from High and Refining in null.

Give the Lowsec types something to look forward too as well with this change who doesn't like a un-escorted freighter jumping into your welcoming arms.

My guess would be the freighter pilot and his business partners.

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