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Meta 4 Better than T2 , a mods list.
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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-02-22 10:58:26 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
SeBo II (?)


Nope, SeBo II uses around 40% less capacitor then meta4 and is also usually cheaper.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Flaming Forum Spammer
Doomheim
#62 - 2014-02-26 14:58:11 UTC
T2 amarr beam/pulse of all variety. fitting cpu and pg is exorbitant with slight damage bonus and higher cap use.

CCP, reduce meta4 drop rate slightly. That drastically reduced PG/CPU/Cap etc... must come at a higher price. Most T2 mods requiring the higher skills -lots of 5's- should come down in PG/CPU/CAP etc... so those with the invested skills have the better fitting. ex) fitting up T2 mega pulse and mega beam apoc eft at 257/254 (EFT so actually more) vs meta4 fitting at 239/237.

what am I doing... CCP has all the spreadsheets. They know how unbalanced this is.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#63 - 2014-02-26 17:57:26 UTC
Flaming Forum Spammer wrote:
T2 amarr beam/pulse of all variety. fitting cpu and pg is exorbitant with slight damage bonus and higher cap use.

CCP, reduce meta4 drop rate slightly. That drastically reduced PG/CPU/Cap etc... must come at a higher price. Most T2 mods requiring the higher skills -lots of 5's- should come down in PG/CPU/CAP etc... so those with the invested skills have the better fitting. ex) fitting up T2 mega pulse and mega beam apoc eft at 257/254 (EFT so actually more) vs meta4 fitting at 239/237.

what am I doing... CCP has all the spreadsheets. They know how unbalanced this is.

You can't use T2 ammo on meta weapons so that is rather moot. T2 might be more difficult to fit and all, but you get a huge benefit with T2 ammo for some ships.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2014-02-26 23:50:21 UTC
Meta 4 and Tech II weapons have the same damage mod and fire rate. The Tech II gets marginally greater damage only from the Tech II weapon skill; the majority of the value of Tech II weapons is to use Tech II ammo.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
UltimateAmbush
Moon Iron Corporation
#65 - 2014-02-27 16:06:38 UTC
t2 remote reperrs.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#66 - 2014-02-27 18:02:57 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Small/medium/heavy energy neutralizer II


These have a use purely because they're identical to meta 4, and meta 4 is rare enough to be a lot more expensive.


They use more powergrid than meta 4, which can become an issue if you've got a tight frig or cruiser fit going on. They SHOULD have a bit extra range.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#67 - 2014-02-27 18:05:33 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Add to the list::
Capacitor Power Relay II

T2 version uses more than twice CPU for the same price and benefits.


it has a slightly less problematic penalty to shield boosting. I would like to see that module be fixed as to not hamper active shield tanking, btw.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-02-28 00:44:10 UTC
Meta 4 Nanofiber Internal Structure
Speed: +8.9%
Agility: -15.8%
Structure penalty: -15%
Price: around 80k ISK

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Speed: +9.4%
Agility: -15.8%
Structure penatly: -20%
Price: around 450k ISK

T2 isn't clear-cut worse, but a further -5% structure penalty and 6x price for the same agility bonus and just +0.5% speed doesn't seem like a good bargain to me.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2014-02-28 00:48:04 UTC
I agree, and would definitely put the above example into the special case scenario with the microwarpdrives.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Invisusira
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#70 - 2014-03-07 20:28:10 UTC
Out of curiosity, seeing as this is a sticky with no blue posts... has CCP mentioned this is something they're planning on amending? Or is this sticky just basically here for "don't buy these T2 modules" purposes?

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2014-03-07 22:12:57 UTC
CCP has already announced that they are planning on doing work on meta 4 modules as a part of tiericide. I don't remember where I saw it but it was probably somewhere in Features and Ideas Discussion.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-03-08 01:11:36 UTC
CCP Fozzie mentioned it a little bit in the Sensor Dampener thread in F&I.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Invisusira
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#73 - 2014-03-10 15:06:07 UTC
Awesome.

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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#74 - 2014-03-13 05:35:47 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Fozzie mentioned it a little bit in the Sensor Dampener thread in F&I.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4302427#post4302427

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Remote Sensor Dampener II 36000 30000
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I 36000 30000

so why is the T2 range the same as the meta 4?? also unless you are changing it has the same effectiveness???
so whats the point of using the T2 version over the meta 4??? this is the same for many modules aswell any chance of changing them??

any thoughts on making modules role based instead of tiers???

We'd like to address some of these issues but this change is specifically adjusting the balance of the Damp group as a whole and we don't want to complicate it by feature creeping :)
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#75 - 2014-04-10 05:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Flyinghotpocket
UltimateAmbush wrote:
t2 remote reperrs.


check your eft again. t2 remote reppers have clear advantage and im FAR from the only one that uses them

your list is missing t2 small energy neuts

also your missing small cap booster II

wont talk about micro cap boosters since those have been unseeded from the game

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#76 - 2014-04-19 18:43:11 UTC
Yeah its odd; the T2 TP seems to have the exact same stats as the meta 4 except it costs more to activate. Any idea if theyll ever fix that? It seems like its something that should BE fixed lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-04-19 19:41:43 UTC
A lot of meta 5s (Tech II) have the same or higher fitting cost and higher capacitor cost with equal output to the meta 4. That is why they (Target Painter II included) are on the list. We are trying to get CCP to take a look at it.

They probably will soon. Even before this post, CCP Fozzie gave a shout-out to the discrepancy. CCP is aware of this problem.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Sheimi Madaveda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2014-04-25 07:23:40 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Add to the list::
Capacitor Power Relay II

T2 version uses more than twice CPU for the same price and benefits.


it has a slightly less problematic penalty to shield boosting. I would like to see that module be fixed as to not hamper active shield tanking, btw.


Actually, the penalty on the meta4 is smaller than that of the t2.

Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png 
Leokokim
Mining Industry Exile Foundation
Synergy of Steel
#79 - 2014-04-28 10:55:06 UTC
Something else:

If you cannot use the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II, there is not point using the Meta 4 variation, as an Adaptive Nano Plating II gives more resists than the meta 4 EANM while only requiring Hull Upgrades IV.

And instead of the T2 you can ofc use the 'Refuge' one, which gives the same resists for a quarter of the price and only needs Hull Upgrades I.

:CCP:
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#80 - 2014-05-01 15:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dinsdale Pirannha
Ah, a dev's alt posts a request to get the community to do his job, to create a list of T2 items to nerf (edit, nerf the meta 4's).
This dovetails nicely with fozzie's comments today.