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Your ideas for isk sinks.

Author
Slorge
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2011-11-21 15:22:13 UTC
If ship insurance is an ISK faucet then why not make it player run. Users could sell their own insurance contracts to other players and then be responsible for paying out costs and receiving the initial payment.

This would reduce ISK in game AND would fit in great with CCPs ideology AND add an interesting new aspect to the game that players could make (or lose) ISK on.
Metal Icarus
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#82 - 2011-11-21 15:34:00 UTC
Boosters would be a nice ISK sink if it were worth more to everyday pilots... Like say, removals/nerf of side effects. Going to run a sanctum by yourself? Or maybe even a 10/10... use an improved blue pill!

I'd say that boosters will create a way to gain a short advantage for a while. To many that would be worth a lot of it lets you do things that you'd otherwise just barely fail at.

With the simplification of POS fuel, improvement of radar exploration sites, one could imagine more booster manufacturers setting up shop! I know I am!

One thing that would be cool is if one could put their corporations name of the booster so that when it is sold, people know which corporation made it. In fact, this should happen to ALL manufactured goods. This would make public opinion matter to mega alliances in null. Imagine boycotts happening against people's product in highsec.

Corporation Product Branding should be in the next big expansion! Oh, man that would be cool!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#83 - 2011-11-21 15:40:09 UTC
Slorge wrote:
If ship insurance is an ISK faucet then why not make it player run.
Because players wouldn't do it unless it made money, and the purpose of insurance is not to be a profitable business but to make it less costly to engage in combat.

Faucets are not bad — in fact, they're required. It's too large and unevently distributed faucets that cause problems. Insurance is particularly not-bad since it very directly ties in with production of new ships.
Skex Relbore wrote:
An ad hom is not an argument.
Then why did you use it? Was your argument so week you felt the need to torpedo it before someone else got the chance?
Quote:
All the arguments you give for the lack of any evidence of the inflation you tell us is so problematic are at best modifiers to the equilibrium point of when other activities become more lucrative than ISK farming.
The only one who has all the data and who has any evidence for anything is the guy who says there is, indeed, inflation (or at least there was once they last presented any data… but they've stopped doing that, so meh).
Quote:
All I see in all this inflation nonsense is a thinly veiled attempt to Nerf L4s.
Then you should lay of whatever it is you consume because you're seeing things.
Slorge
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2011-11-21 15:44:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Slorge wrote:
If ship insurance is an ISK faucet then why not make it player run.

Because players wouldn't do it unless it made money, and the purpose of insurance is not to be a profitable business but to make it less costly to engage in combat.


Well, how do real world insurance companies manage to make money then? Maybe insurance doesn't make profit at the current rates in Eve but if it were player run they would adjust to an appropriate level where people could make some small level of income I think.
Illwill Bill
End of employment history
#85 - 2011-11-21 15:59:35 UTC
Ship skins.

I'd pay for a Blood raider skin for my Sacrilege.
Illwill Bill
End of employment history
#86 - 2011-11-21 15:59:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Illwill Bill
Edit: The hell is wrong with Eve gate today?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#87 - 2011-11-21 16:03:19 UTC
Slorge wrote:
Well, how do real world insurance companies manage to make money then?
By not insuring people who get repeatedly blown up and definitely not insuring people who sign a contract with the express purpose of getting blown up (and by trying to pay out as little as possible to those who managed to get an insurance and who still got hurt).

In EVE, insurance is there to make you more likely to get blown up.
IRL, being more likely to get blown up means you're not getting an insurance.

They're pretty much each other's exact opposites. The service Pend provides is not a business — it's an incentive scheme to engage in insurance-generating behaviour.
Quote:
if it were player run they would adjust to an appropriate level where people could make some small level of income I think.
If it were player run, it would only be used by people who never got blown up, and who would therefore stop paying insurance since they're not getting anything for the money they pay. It wouldn't serve the same function as the insurance mechanic, and it would basically be a different skew of Jita local scam-spamming.
WuMaTih
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#88 - 2011-11-21 16:44:13 UTC
a ccp run lottery.. think about it this is a good one.
Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#89 - 2011-11-21 17:00:07 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
- Interactive Channels for CQ, pay isk for cool channels like live batttle feeds, or access to external station cameras

- Advertising Fees - Allow Corps or alliances to post ads on the CQ Screens, and Billboards. Regional / Constellation / System transmission fees depending on local bids for air time. Not just recruit ads, but sell/buy ads, Mercenary Requests, etc. Basically whatever they desire.

- Larger tax for Jump Cloning, and Jump Clone Installation. 100k is nothing. And we're currently charged 0 isk for jumping. Shouldnt we need to pay Usage Based Billing bandwidth fees depending on our level training?

- Agent Introduction Fees (Pay your current agent to introduce you to one of her limited contacts, would make agent system interesting too)

- Insurance - Remove it entirely

- Concord Fees - You pay your monthly concord protection fee, at your protection level, depending on the response time / alpha / ecm options you like... If you want concord. Newbs get free concord protection up to certain SP level.

- Spy Agents - Beef up agent's ability to track people, to also find out their privately held certificates, Recent Transactions (some limits maybe), Implants or Boosters, all additional information costing more then the basic location info.

- Gate Usage Fees - Fees depending on concord /Security oft he system. nullsec set by sov holder up to a maximum limit

- Portrait Re-customization Fees - charge us isk for re-customization/update of our portrait.

- Dock Fees as Standard - Make docking fees standard, not just an optional SOV thing.

- Map Features as Optional - Make the various Star Map stats a subscription based service, so we need to subscribe to Sov Package to get updates about sov changes, or subscribe to Statistics Package to get intel about cynos and number of jumps. This of course would require the Star Map to become more integrated and easier to take advantage of


This ^

I think this guy just figured it all out. Do this... all of it... would be my vote... were we voting...

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Jaxemont
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2011-11-21 17:04:35 UTC
If an aggroed logistics ship wants to dock in high sec space, they must pay 100 mil docking fee.

This is an isk sink and a deterrent to neutral RR. Two birds with one stone.
Zagdul
Virtual Progression
#91 - 2011-11-21 17:29:49 UTC
Get rid of Aurm and let me pay for NEX items with ISK.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
#92 - 2011-11-21 17:43:20 UTC
Benilopax wrote:
There has been talk of the issue of isk entering the game a higher levels than before, with no real counter in the way of isk sinks.

If you were a dev what would you do to make more isk leave the system?


Remove Insurance.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2011-11-21 17:45:26 UTC
Solhild wrote:
Use isk for eve store items, including postage.



BAM! She solved that problem fast.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
#94 - 2011-11-21 17:45:35 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:

- Larger tax for Jump Cloning, and Jump Clone Installation. 100k is nothing. And we're currently charged 0 isk for jumping. Shouldnt we need to pay Usage Based Billing bandwidth fees depending on our level training?

- Insurance - Remove it entirely


Love both ideas, how about remove Jump Clone timer and make it 10 m isk per jump?
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Lovejoy II
Lovejoy's Operations
#95 - 2011-11-21 17:51:06 UTC
Make a high-sec tax, working just like a corp tax. This would make it possible for CCP to effectively control inflation by lowering and raising said tax.
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2011-11-21 18:25:49 UTC
Some of these tax ideas (like docking fees) seem regressive in that they would probably disproportionately affect the people with the least amount of disposable ISK.

Also, if incomes are rising everywhere more or less equally, then inflation isn't a big deal. But if isk is being spread about inefficiently, and especially if that inefficiency is causing problems for newer/poorer capsuleers then CCP would have to look at where the ISK is going and then figure out a way to encourage a better distribution.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2011-11-21 18:50:18 UTC
Lovejoy II wrote:
Make a high-sec tax, working just like a corp tax. This would make it possible for CCP to effectively control inflation by lowering and raising said tax.

Implying nullsec Sanctums don't also vomit out copious amounts of ISK?
Skex Relbore
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2011-11-21 19:03:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Skex Relbore wrote:
An ad hom is not an argument.
Then why did you use it? Was your argument so week you felt the need to torpedo it before someone else got the chance?

You make no sense here. Pointing out that people who continue to believe something in the absence of supporting evidence are are idiots is not the same as saying your assertion is wrong because you are an idiot.

Important distinction that determines whether a personal attack actually constitutes a logical fallacy. Saying someone is an idiot for believing something foolish is not an ad hom.

You haven't offered any actual evidence supporting the proposition that there is inflation in the EVE economy, you've offered some rationalizations for why it hasn't manifested but you haven't actually provided evidence that it is actually in existence. This is just like all the real world economists of the Chicago school (you know the one EVE's economist belongs to) who've been harping for years about the threat of run away inflation as a result of quantitative easing. Those with a clue pointed out how such inflation should not be expected and thus far that's what reality has shown us.

Quote:

The only one who has all the data and who has any evidence for anything is the guy who says there is, indeed, inflation (or at least there was once they last presented any data… but they've stopped doing that, so meh).


This discussion has been had before. The fact is he's supplied very limited data. An increase in the isk supply does not automatically result in inflation. Even beyond the question of population growth versus isk accumulation there is the matter of an increased consumption and earning rate as players advance in skill and can start operating more expensive craft.

Basically the lack of inflation as a result of this increase in the isk supply tells us that there is likely a shortage of ISK relative to the over all economy to begin with as such further restrictions on said supply have a greater potential of being disruptive than positive.

You know what's worse that inflation from a monetary standpoint? Deflation, make isk more difficult to acquire and that's the path you are moving on.

Quote:

Quote:
All I see in all this inflation nonsense is a thinly veiled attempt to Nerf L4s.
Then you should lay of whatever it is you consume because you're seeing things.


Once again show me the evidence. Don't give me rationalizations of why the evidence isn't visible show me some actual concrete evidence that inflation exists.

I'm telling you right now you won't find it. you won't find it because the nature of how MMO economics works will prevent it from manifesting.

Let me reiterate ISK is not currency in the traditional sense, It's simply one more commodity that people harvest. We could just as easily decided to use trit as an exchange medium and the economy would operated precisely the same as it does now.


ISK supply is self regulating. If inflation devalues isk then people will change activities. Sure not everyone will shift activities due to fluctuations in isk value but if the value shifts sufficiently then enough people will shift activities to balance things out.

This is why we've not seen any evidence of inflation, this is why we won't see any evidence of inflation no matter how many appeals to authority you make.
Kemhotep
Extropic Industries
#99 - 2011-11-21 19:18:44 UTC
Quote:
If you were a dev what would you do to make more isk leave the system?


Force people to pay in order to disable CQ?

- Kem.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2011-11-21 19:20:34 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:

- Larger tax for Jump Cloning, and Jump Clone Installation. 100k is nothing. And we're currently charged 0 isk for jumping. Shouldnt we need to pay Usage Based Billing bandwidth fees depending on our level training?

- Insurance - Remove it entirely


Love both ideas, how about remove Jump Clone timer and make it 10 m isk per jump?

I like it. Of course now we have people clone jumping all over the place...but...I would rather deal with that then the alternative.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821