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Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

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Molica Iwaira
Perkone
Caldari State
#341 - 2013-10-11 14:22:11 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
To those who say they are going to or may quit, I would ask them wait to see what CCP do about this...error of judgment.

Those of us who are opposed to the favouritism are against it precisely because we really care about and enjoy Eve Online, where success or failure is fought for (by whatever means) on a level playing field, where the same rules apply to all.

The likes of War Kitten and Jenn Aside et al, who constantly try to portray opposition to valuable/useful in-game freebies, as a jealously issue, simply serve to help me realize that as bad as I am at Eve, they are worse.



Well, as much good intentions as CCP Guard has, I have noted that he is exclusively focusing on what CCP has to give to whom as rewards, awards etc. As important as this is, some of us are also discussing the legitimacy of the 3rd party gambling websites which is extremely disturbing. We are still worlds apart in understanding I am afraid.
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#342 - 2013-10-11 14:23:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Argus Sorn
Miss Ladybird wrote:
CCP Guard did you really say those ships were worth 30 trit?



Frankly Somer has conquered this game more than anyone else to date.

1) He has raked in isk from players in game hand over fist, God knows how much he has now.

2) He has strategically sponsored events to advertise his lottery service, so he can get more people on his website losing all their isk and not enjoying it in game, and as a reward CCP print him out a 300b isk prize (no not 30 trit Guard).

3) He has all the top names vouching for how great his lotteries are, and even has CCP tirelessly asserting, again and again, and even in this thread, how great his service is to this game.

4) He has so much power that if he did pull a massive scam out of his operation, it would literally probably feature in headline world news, would also deal a massive gut blow to CCP and all the other fools that have promoted him, and might just bring the whole game crashing down.

Nice work.

Time to quit eve I suppose. There is only so much insult to my intelligence I can stomach.


Honestly any dev or CCP employee who continues to attempt to argue their point based on the fact that the IWS is "not very good" or only "refines to 30 trit" is a complete and utter idiot and deserves to be fired. And that is NOT rhetoric .

How you can be expected to solve problems when you can't even understand the problem, despite it being defined for you about a hundred times over is beyond me. This is favoritism - you screwed up. The response is to fix it, not to continue your ridiculous attempts to defend it.

Some thoughts on fixing it:

1) You could remove the Somer ISW scorps from the game pending a decision on how best to reward players. The halting of giving them out has just increased the incentive for selling them. At the very least, render them "unsellable".

But more importantly - because to be honest the scorps are mostly a done deal and the real damage control is in defining your relationship with SOMER properly, so:

2) Cancel any involvement with SOMERblink and CCP on out of game and in game projects. The raffles/giveaways at EVE Vegas should be handled by CCP themselves or the EVE Vegas staff. If there is a need to have a third party handle this, I am sure the casino (a totally impartial, well established third party entity) might be able to be of assistance if you explain what you need. It's just a raffle.

3) At this point I am afraid there needs to be a full investigation into SOMERblink and any involvement that devs may have had with them past or present. I would like to see someone like outside of the community team and suitably high up the chain of command such as Jon Lander, David Reid, or someone else well trusted by the player community to handle this.

A CCP dev has come out and pronounced SOMER has trustworthy, but this goes beyond simply paying off bets. As any intelligent person would know, to declare them trustworthy would also mean assuring there are no shills used, that their payouts are c/w with odds, and most importantly that none of the isk that they pay to themselves or their employees is used in ways that violate the EULA.

4) We need some promises from CCP, once again from higher up than the dev team, that they respect that players want CCP to keep its meddling hands out of the economy and in game player interactions and that they will no longer try and pick winners. If they want to reward genuine out of game sites, then they should do so with out of game prizes like USB hubs and ship models and the like.


So let's be clear:

It isn't just about ISW Scorps, it isn't just about raffles. It is about the fact that SB is an in game corporation, that makes isk IN THE GAME. They exist within the context of the game, and therefore CCP should be impartial and unbiased towards them (as they ironically chose to be toward new player training organizations, lol).

They have literally no credentials that we have seen or been presented with that make them in some way well suited to giving away out of game, taxable prizes like trips to iceland. They can only profit from this arrangement. So CCP has engaged in an out of game relationship with an in game corporation that will increase their profit making.

Does this really need to be made any clearer? A goddamn monkey could understand the conflict of interest here and yet we have thus seen three CCP devs come to us who have shown an inability to "get it".

So yes - stop insulting our intelligence.
Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#343 - 2013-10-11 14:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Ladybird
T1nyMan wrote:
My two cents, thanks guard seems like a rational response to community concerns.

I can read your post literally without reading between lines and see how we got to where we are. I accept your explanation and later further clarifications.

Time to move forward people..

He said Somer deserved 300b for getting players to lose all their isk on his website, and has along with most of ccp persistently held somer out to be 'great' and a 'content provider'.

Its pure garbage. Might be good enough for you, not for me.

And yes, if you read Guards original post, he did throw around '30 trit' as being one way to view the value of the ship. He also tried asserting it is worthless by saying the ship is not as good as a tech 1 scorpion, totally ignoring the collectors / rarity value. The reason for this is because they are trying to hide the 300b bit.

If you can stomach garbage arguments then good for you.

CCP gave Somer Blink 300b isk. The only thing more tragic than this is that CCP cannot pry themselves away from promoting Blink and holding it out as being a really great service that adds content.

Question for CCP: Do you really think players losing isk to Somer qualifies as 'content'?
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#344 - 2013-10-11 14:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Argus Sorn
Pingu wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Running a penny lottery is not hard CCP so why don't you run it yourself?


Montmazar wrote:
In other news, we still don't know why CCP loves Somer so much. We did at least get to find out eventually why they loved BoB. Looking forward to future leaks, because the explanations given so far do not make sense.


*sigh*

CCP are not legally permitted to set up any form of lottery themselves due to Icelandic law.

Gambling attracts real life cash from morons who gamble away all their in game isk and need to spend more real life cash than they should.

Greed is good.

CCP want to have gambling in their game because it makes them money and since they cannot do it themselves Somer Blink are a godsend to them.



Can SOMERblink legally give away prizes that have real cash value in the "real world"? These items are subject to taxes in the United States and there are other laws regarding their distribution that have the potential to be violated as well. What is the mailing address for SOMERblink should I have a grievance? Who can I call?

If what you say about icelandic law is true, then is SOMERblink being used as a dummy corporation in order to circumvent Icelandic law? Sounds crazy, but if CCP can't run the auction because of Icelandic law, and instead they use a corporation that only REALLY exists in a game they created to run the same auction... well yeah, that's sketchy no? Not sure if that whole "Icelandic Law" thing is true tho to be fair.

Frankly I am surprised any US based member of SOMER would want the attention of this because if they are paid enough game time/isk as 'payment in kind' it also could be subject to taxes (although I admit I am not an accountant, so correct me if I am wrong).

Why not have the casino help run the lottery for the items? They can legally raffle off whatever they want, and have actual "out of game" credentials to do so. Or why not the EVE Vegas folks themselves?

The point is, CCP screwed up bad by getting into bed with SOMER and the only acceptable course of action is to get out. Going ahead with this lottery through SOMER, is a bad path to go down. Yet all we get from devs is "but... but... but...". No confidence here.
Josef Djugashvilis
#345 - 2013-10-11 14:39:14 UTC
I am not convinced that CCP being involved with a 3rd party gambling site for a game 13 year old kids can play is the best move they have ever made.

However, it seems that CCP is going to look at all aspects of this, so all may change in the near future.

This is not a signature.
Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#346 - 2013-10-11 14:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Ladybird
There is so much sense being spoken in this thread, and I just cant stop thinking about the audacity of CCPs '30 trit' gambit.

I agree with Argus Sorn and Josef Djugashvilis 100%, and many others that have posted I have not named.

Another Question for CCP (bet they dont answer): Why are you pushing online eve gambling so hard?
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#347 - 2013-10-11 14:53:39 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
CCP Guard, since you're clearly still actively reading and replying to this thread, what are your thoughts on somers - or indeed any third party CCP may deal with in the future - banning and excluding paying subscribers at their own discretion?

It's no secret that people who share an IP address for example - like family, house mates, internet cafes - are banned from somer and not allowed to fairly take part in this recent give away. Are CCP willing to allow third parties to arbitrarily dictate rules and regulations that EVE players must abide to in order to participate in give aways or other events CCP are helping create/sponsor/etc?


We're aware of that concern and it's something we'll have a look at and draw lines around when we sit down with the CSM and map out what our guidelines should be. There are a lot of events that are inaccessible to a large portion of your playerbase for various reasons and we have to look at how all of that plays into the different levels of support we provide.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard
jimbolina
Doomheim
#348 - 2013-10-11 14:54:30 UTC
So, You are stopping this madness and making those ships even more valued. Congrats CCP ( or i missed line where they took all those ships back?)
Nanatoa
#349 - 2013-10-11 14:57:46 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Nanatoa wrote:
As I said in the Assembly Hall, CCP should at least publicly disclose anything valuable or rare they spawn ingame, if only to make sure the market remains transparent and efficient.


Now, as for the Gold Magnate bait and switch, I'm still waiting for SOMER Blink to return my 16 billion. Posts in their thread have been ignored and ingame messages to Somerset Mahm had no effect, but I still like this organisation with "a solid history of trust and reliability" [CCP Navigator's endorsement, not mine] to honour my refund request. How do I go about this?


Have you petitioned it in game? It was CCP who announced the gold magnates, and it was CCP Navigator who made statements attesting to their honesty and honouring all transactions, and I'm sure that without those statements about what the prize was and how trustworthy the people handling it were you wouldn't have wished to partake and donate that much money to somer


That last part (my bolding) is very true. The only reason I put my 16 billion into SOMER Blink was to get a shot at owning a truly historic vessel, something CCP assured I had a honest chance of winning. I really want this settled and my patience and softspokenness should not be confused with a lack of determiniation or persistence.

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#350 - 2013-10-11 15:02:25 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
CCP Guard, since you're clearly still actively reading and replying to this thread, what are your thoughts on somers - or indeed any third party CCP may deal with in the future - banning and excluding paying subscribers at their own discretion?

It's no secret that people who share an IP address for example - like family, house mates, internet cafes - are banned from somer and not allowed to fairly take part in this recent give away. Are CCP willing to allow third parties to arbitrarily dictate rules and regulations that EVE players must abide to in order to participate in give aways or other events CCP are helping create/sponsor/etc?


We're aware of that concern and it's something we'll have a look at and draw lines around when we sit down with the CSM and map out what our guidelines should be. There are a lot of events that are inaccessible to a large portion of your playerbase for various reasons and we have to look at how all of that plays into the different levels of support we provide.


CCP keeps calling what they are providing 'support'.

CCP gave hundreds of billions of unique (and spawned out of thin air) ships to Somer Blink in support of what? It was in support of online gambling in eve.

So why does Guard avoid answering my question.

Q: Why does CCP want to support online gambling in eve with free assets and extensive vouching?
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#351 - 2013-10-11 15:07:00 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
CCP Guard, since you're clearly still actively reading and replying to this thread, what are your thoughts on somers - or indeed any third party CCP may deal with in the future - banning and excluding paying subscribers at their own discretion?

It's no secret that people who share an IP address for example - like family, house mates, internet cafes - are banned from somer and not allowed to fairly take part in this recent give away. Are CCP willing to allow third parties to arbitrarily dictate rules and regulations that EVE players must abide to in order to participate in give aways or other events CCP are helping create/sponsor/etc?


We're aware of that concern and it's something we'll have a look at and draw lines around when we sit down with the CSM and map out what our guidelines should be. There are a lot of events that are inaccessible to a large portion of your playerbase for various reasons and we have to look at how all of that plays into the different levels of support we provide.


I can draw your line for you.

CCP on one side. SOMER on the other. Don't cross it.

It isn't that hard, businesses have to draw these kind of lines all the time to avoid conflicts of interest, why are you having such a hard time?

And how do you plan on addressing this concern in time for EVE Vegas to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to enter, because otherwise such arbitrary banning of participation might not only create discontent among the player base, but it may not even be legal given the Vegas 'lotteries' are for prizes with real cash value? The fact is SOMER is not necessarily equipped to do this fairly.

Once again, I have your answer, since CCP seems to struggling with it.

CCP | SOMER

Don't cross the line.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#352 - 2013-10-11 15:07:31 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
I'd like a little more information on the SOMER lottery issue specifically as that was the really immense giveaway here and it's not really well addressed. Specifically, why an in-game business was given such immense prizes as "a fansite" that wound up making them almost certainly literally trillions of isk. It's not really addressed at all in your post: no indication of why SOMER, no indication of what process went on here and why the CSM was never consulted, no indication of what other "fansites" have gotten these sort of things.

It's not just that SOMER got the lottery gifts. It's that they were absolutely stupendously massive. There's also the seperate problem of Navigator officially declaring them Not A Scam.

The IWS issue would not have been nearly as big an issue without that: it's that both happened, and that the lottery gift to SOMER was already absurdly out of line. The IWS issue exacerbated the lottery issue, it wasn't the main problem.


I can probably shed a bit of light on that although Navigator touched on that in his announcement following what was going to be the Gold Magnate event.

Why SOMER? Well, they are really popular and they have supported a ton of events so we wanted to explore what we could do with them. Their influence in the community is significant for the same reason that they are space rich - because they're good at what they do.

In the statement we go into who else have gotten the ISWs and also what sort of giveways we usually extend to fansites.

As we said, we agree with you that we went too fast and that's why we need to re-think this whole thing. We need to keep the CSM more involved, their input is invaluable.


SOMER - not a fansite, not a community site, do nothing for the community other than as advertising to bring in more revenue to SOMER, already unbelievably isk-rich - why, why, why would you ever think they deserved anything from CCP to help them?

This stinks of favouritism and your responses stink of covering up as you (CCP as a whole) continually imply they do good for the community without any evidence whatsoever other than the obvious point that you think they're great.
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#353 - 2013-10-11 15:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Argus Sorn
Miss Ladybird wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
CCP Guard, since you're clearly still actively reading and replying to this thread, what are your thoughts on somers - or indeed any third party CCP may deal with in the future - banning and excluding paying subscribers at their own discretion?

It's no secret that people who share an IP address for example - like family, house mates, internet cafes - are banned from somer and not allowed to fairly take part in this recent give away. Are CCP willing to allow third parties to arbitrarily dictate rules and regulations that EVE players must abide to in order to participate in give aways or other events CCP are helping create/sponsor/etc?


We're aware of that concern and it's something we'll have a look at and draw lines around when we sit down with the CSM and map out what our guidelines should be. There are a lot of events that are inaccessible to a large portion of your playerbase for various reasons and we have to look at how all of that plays into the different levels of support we provide.


CCP keeps calling what they are providing 'support'.

CCP gave hundreds of billions of unique (and spawned out of thin air) ships to Somer Blink in support of what? It was in support of online gambling in eve.

So why does Guard avoid answering my question.

Q: Why does CCP want to support online gambling in eve with free assets and extensive vouching?



To be honest I have thought about this quite a bit and have come to only one conclusion that doesn't involve outright misconduct by CCP employees. Despite my stance on this issue, I generally do not subscribe to the "cheating dev" theory. I have met Guard, for instance and think he's a great guy. I don't believe he is guilty of misconduct. I just think, and I am sorry for this Guard, that he's a little too emotionally attached to SOMERblink, either because of a love for SOMER or because of an attachment to their decision and an inability to admit they made a mistake.

So that all being said, there is one answer that doesn't involve misconduct and makes sense:

SOMERblink, either knowlingly, or unknowingly (because they hire CCP dev alts without knowing it) is literally removing isk from the game. They are taking it, and destroying it (either literally or by shunting it into dead accounts). This would actually be supportive of the economy believe it or not. So yeah, CCP supports the removal of isk from the game because it prevents inflation in the economy, and that's good for the game.

The problem is, if that isk isn't being destroyed, but instead is being hoarded somewhere, if it is released in a large amount into circulation, it could have terrible consequences in terms of inflation.

CCP has basically chosen to support SOMER as a sort of Federal Reserve, which is only safe and reasonable if CCP knows that they are permanently removing isk from circulation.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#354 - 2013-10-11 15:17:17 UTC
Argus Sorn wrote:
Miss Ladybird wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
CCP Guard, since you're clearly still actively reading and replying to this thread, what are your thoughts on somers - or indeed any third party CCP may deal with in the future - banning and excluding paying subscribers at their own discretion?

It's no secret that people who share an IP address for example - like family, house mates, internet cafes - are banned from somer and not allowed to fairly take part in this recent give away. Are CCP willing to allow third parties to arbitrarily dictate rules and regulations that EVE players must abide to in order to participate in give aways or other events CCP are helping create/sponsor/etc?


We're aware of that concern and it's something we'll have a look at and draw lines around when we sit down with the CSM and map out what our guidelines should be. There are a lot of events that are inaccessible to a large portion of your playerbase for various reasons and we have to look at how all of that plays into the different levels of support we provide.


CCP keeps calling what they are providing 'support'.

CCP gave hundreds of billions of unique (and spawned out of thin air) ships to Somer Blink in support of what? It was in support of online gambling in eve.

So why does Guard avoid answering my question.

Q: Why does CCP want to support online gambling in eve with free assets and extensive vouching?



To be honest I have thought about this quite a bit and have come to only one conclusion that doesn't involve outright misconduct by CCP employees. Despite my stance on this issue, I generally do not subscribe to the "cheating dev" theory. I have met Guard, for instance and think he's a great guy. I don't believe he is guilty of misconduct. I just think, and I am sorry for this Guard, that he's a little too emotionally attached to SOMERblink, either because of a love for SOMER or because of an attachment to their decision and an inability to admit they made a mistake.

So that all being said, there is one answer that doesn't involve misconduct and makes sense:

SOMERblink, either knowlingly, or more than likely unknowingly (because he hires CCP dev alts without knowing it) is literally removing isk from the game. They are taking it, and destroying it. This would actually be supportive of the economy believe it or not. So yeah, CCP supports the removal of isk from the game because it prevents inflation in the economy, and that's good for the game.

The problem is, if that isk isn't being destroyed, but instead is being hoarded somewhere, if it is released in a large amount into circulation, it could have terrible consequences in terms of inflation.

CCP has basically chosen to support SOMER as a sort of Federal Reserve, which is only safe and reasonable if CCP knows that they are permanently removing isk from circulation.


Or if CCP have some sort of agreement with SOMER on what will happen to the isk.
Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#355 - 2013-10-11 15:18:32 UTC
Argus Sorn wrote:

I can draw your line for you.

CCP on one side. SOMER on the other. Don't cross it.

It isn't that hard, businesses have to draw these kind of lines all the time to avoid conflicts of interest, why are you having such a hard time?

And how do you plan on addressing this concern in time for EVE Vegas to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to enter, because otherwise such arbitrary banning of participation might not only create discontent among the player base, but it may not even be legal given the Vegas 'lotteries' are for prizes with real cash value? The fact is SOMER is not necessarily equipped to do this fairly.

Once again, I have your answer, since CCP seems to struggling with it.

CCP | SOMER

Don't cross the line.


I couldnt agree more. Put bluntly, Somer must be laughing all the way to the bank thanks to CCPs promotion of his service.

Ruskarn Andedare wrote:


SOMER - not a fansite, not a community site, do nothing for the community other than as advertising to bring in more revenue to SOMER, already unbelievably isk-rich - why, why, why would you ever think they deserved anything from CCP to help them?

This stinks of favouritism and your responses stink of covering up as you (CCP as a whole) continually imply they do good for the community without any evidence whatsoever other than the obvious point that you think they're great.


you are 100% right Rus, Guard is doing what I call the dance. He is overtly avoiding all the hard, honest talk and discussion points and totally skirting the topic. Somer blink simply doesn't contribute anything. It is an online gambling service HELLO.
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#356 - 2013-10-11 15:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Argus Sorn
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:


SOMER - not a fansite, not a community site, do nothing for the community other than as advertising to bring in more revenue to SOMER, already unbelievably isk-rich - why, why, why would you ever think they deserved anything from CCP to help them?

This stinks of favouritism and your responses stink of covering up as you (CCP as a whole) continually imply they do good for the community without any evidence whatsoever other than the obvious point that you think they're great.


Let's put an end to this nonsense because I am frankly, sick of it.

http://cogdev.net/blink/

Guard, please tell me what makes that a great fansite? Explain to me how that site makes people play eve or enhances their experience in EVE.

Oh and look closely:

This is not a LOTTERY. These are effectively penny auctions. In a lottery, the more isk that is injected into the lottery - the bigger the prize. There is a predefined, published breakdown of who get what. And the more tickets that sell, the more isk the winner gets. This is an item that you effectively 'bid' on by getting more tickets... anyway, this has all been gone into ad nauseum elsewhere.

Does anyone know what country SOMERBlink is based in? Given they give away plex, and plex have real world value I wonder what gambling laws they are bound by, if any? Can they legally give away cash value trips to iceland on their site?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#357 - 2013-10-11 15:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Is it too hard for people to believe that the train of thought at CCP was:

Our players are meeting up in Vegas.
Lets do something cool for them.
What's cool?
Prizes are cool.
We don't have an infrastructure in place to give out prizes.
Who gives stuff out regularly?
SomerBlink gives out a lot of stuff. Lots of people use them.
Lets use Somer to raffle the prizes off.
People like prizes, it'll be fine.






As for Somer's involvement with the community: We are the community. Some of us enjoy playing Blink. Thus the site serves the community.

Do I think they should have received the personal IScorps? Nope. But I seriously doubt there was anything malicious involved. Just 'this is a cool thing to do for people who have added to the fun our community has'

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#358 - 2013-10-11 15:26:06 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Is it too hard for people to believe that the train of thought at CCP was:

Our players are meeting up in Vegas.
Lets do something cool for them.
What's cool?
Prizes are cool.
We don't have an infrastructure in place to give out prizes.
Who gives stuff out regularly?
SomerBlink gives out a lot of stuff. Lots of people use them.
Lets use Somer to raffle the prizes off.
People like prizes, it'll be fine.


totally invalid contribution to the debate.

ITS JUST A RAFFLE!

Literally, anyone with even the most basic and rudimentary resemblance of intelligence can do a raffle.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#359 - 2013-10-11 15:28:36 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
CCP Guard, since you're clearly still actively reading and replying to this thread, what are your thoughts on somers - or indeed any third party CCP may deal with in the future - banning and excluding paying subscribers at their own discretion?

It's no secret that people who share an IP address for example - like family, house mates, internet cafes - are banned from somer and not allowed to fairly take part in this recent give away. Are CCP willing to allow third parties to arbitrarily dictate rules and regulations that EVE players must abide to in order to participate in give aways or other events CCP are helping create/sponsor/etc?


We're aware of that concern and it's something we'll have a look at and draw lines around when we sit down with the CSM and map out what our guidelines should be. There are a lot of events that are inaccessible to a large portion of your playerbase for various reasons and we have to look at how all of that plays into the different levels of support we provide.

CCP Guard, you need to set the bar higher, far far higher. It should be a big red flag if the event is inaccessible to even one member of the player base.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#360 - 2013-10-11 15:28:43 UTC
Argus Sorn wrote:
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:


SOMER - not a fansite, not a community site, do nothing for the community other than as advertising to bring in more revenue to SOMER, already unbelievably isk-rich - why, why, why would you ever think they deserved anything from CCP to help them?

This stinks of favouritism and your responses stink of covering up as you (CCP as a whole) continually imply they do good for the community without any evidence whatsoever other than the obvious point that you think they're great.


Let's put an end to this nonsense because I am frankly, sick of it.

http://cogdev.net/blink/

Guard, please tell me what makes that a great fansite? Explain to me how that site makes people play eve or enhances their experience in EVE.


Its got nothing to do with being a fan site. It is just a way for the owner to make isk hand over fist. Who'd have guessed this gambling site could also be passed off as a 'community centre' and thus qualify for hundreds of billions in isk gifts (spawned from thin air by CCP) and persistant, and determined, CCP promotion?