EVE General Discussion

Interesting comment that is: my proposal is the following (possibly already mentioned):

next to the existing PvP (= kinds of arts requiring much anticipation before the actual fight: battleclinic..load-outs etc.)..maybe next to the existing one there should be a second type of PvP competative characteristics of which:

1)
Players use exactly the same ships (same frigates, I propose)

2)
Players have to use exactly the same load-outs and ammunition.

This will make such a second type of PvP pretty competative for all easily.

And since PvP takes place using the same frigates only some skills "core competency" to be trained...but that can be done fast

There will of course remain some differences whereas navigation (=speed) and gunnery concerned but these can be overcome and the influence of those are more marginal.

And last: to make it even more competative and challenging for also new players one could add PvP skill-classifications:

0-2500
2500-5000
5000-7500
etc.

Such a second type of PvP would no doubt make it more challenging for also the new players: being possible to play PvP on the same grounds and open outcome.

Interesting to think about.

I tried using a kesteral in FW space ,it didn't go well

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=253514&find=unread

I've trained rigs so its bit better but not much

Join corp

Go roam in fleet of 20

Find lamer 1v1 hero

Alpha them

Wait for tears on forums (no tears, assume they cried a lot on their corp comms)

Be smug

Profit (probably not as your corp
Mate with salvagers and tractor beams that joins every fleet in a rifter got the isk

Well, the point he made about PvP in relation to acquired skillpoints no doubt is an objective/valid one.

So, creating PvP catagories (flying all standard frigates and standard modules/ammunition) would make it more competitive and attractive for new players. Something to realy think upon: thus a 2nd Pvp-sytem next to the existing one.

I myself now have acquired 26.3 mn skill points..and withing 3 months I reach the stage that I can fly all frigates and all existing cruisers (caldari) and Tengu under the optimal conditions (= skill points level 5 + core-competency elite)....and my reasons/goals for acquiring such is defenitely not striving for easy winnings in PvP against new players (that would realy be silly and unfair).

So, I propose PvP catagory-sytem (based skill-points) for the new players, they would much like more competitive PvP..that is for sure. So, interesting to think upon such a brainstorming suggestion I made (especially when you realize that I myself do not need it, I morely would advacate such for the new players).

And last: don't we all want to see EVE going beyond 1 million players/subscibers in time! (I for one would very much like such happened!)

Yes, wormholes are very unforgiving. Try high and lowsec exploration sites first. You will want a covert ops frigate ASAP for low.

No, you really can't learn "doing" from "watching". It takes participation and interaction. All you'll gain from watching is theory and ideas. PvP takes a feel for it by situation.

e.g. you may watch a lot of fights but that won't prep you for those incoming punches. It takes participation to get a feel for it and each encounter tends to differ.

Let me introduce you to -- Tankspot...
http://www.tankspot.com/forumdisplay.php?206-Project-Marmot-TankSpot-Raid-Movie-Guides

When you're raised well, and on a diet of videos, yes you will be good when you get into an encounter from the knowledge. It's not just theory (theory is like Elitist Jerks, where they do the math and sims). TankSpot is the default place to go for all raid encounter info for all roles, and if you're a competitive raider you're even expected to study them (don't waste players time otherwise).

So I do understand what you're saying but one size fits all training doesn't work, because there's many ways to train than just be cannon fodder for a month or longer, wasting time and resources. Your method is to be gank fodder to gain experience, mine is to study mechanics; strats and situations via videos first as it's most efficient.

When I first started in EvE I spent the nights listening in on the gate coms with the vets. That's how I learned about protecting territory, and how it's done. A visual idea wasn't needed, what was is when A occurs what do you do (that FC was the best, he could rattle off the numbers and do the napkin math just like a RL pilot). It's like how other professionals learn, be it a ATC or a pilot even (you realize they don't just jump into a 767 and fly it, they must put time in simulators and classroom instruction).

So don't worry, I'll learn and learn well.

Ok instead of adding more flames against you, here's the key - like I said earlier, it's just your mindset that needs to change, not the game mechanics.

SP is a huge factor and modules too, but the biggest factor is experience. Nothing tops it. You CANNOT get that from vids...

The vids will not tell you exactly when to orbit, to approach, to kite, or to use your ewar. It can't tell you how well you tank certain situations. You have to learn this from experience. You have to find the "sweet spots" at web range, disruptor range, scram range, etc that work for your play style. You have to actually fight ppl to get used to that.

Some of my alts are years old but I have still lost ships to new players just because I had the wrong ship and they had the right one. No matter how much SP you have, if you have an AB fit brawler ship and get kited by a fast MWD nano ship with dps, you are helpless in 1 v 1 and if u cant warp off, youre dead no matter how much sp you have. Unless you have drones, but that won't last long. There's lots of ways noobs can get kills on even the oldest players...that's just one of em.

Target selection.

Mindset.

Practice.

Go.

Yes, yes they are.

Don't stand in fire.

Swap at 5 stacks of whatever debuff the boss uses.

Repeat until boss is dead or you are.

If boss is dead: Loot.

If you are dead: Yell at your dps.


That's how you be a tank. (to establish qualifiers for this, I mained a raid tank for 7 years *full heroic ICC too*, until I realized WoW was ********)

You're taking it literally. I posted about TankSpot to show you the media a WoW player uses to keep tabs. EvE doesn't have the addons and such for monitoring. My WoW UI looks like a 747 cockpit, as I'm a healer and I have to monitor the situation (you realize what role I eventually will play in EvE, right? Not logics, command because that's what I have done for years and enjoy it).

And I single handily healed a current level 25 man raid that the healers just all died but me, a tank and 1 DPS with 30% of the boss health left (want to talk about close shaves???). Oh, I know all about the unconventional (like 10k mana cycle healing fail groups and raids). Why? Because I study and study well. When others are calling for a wipe, I show them it can be done (and sometimes I am the only one alive to get the job done). I'm not your typical player.

I realize players can even armor tank a Drake (put 1+1 together it's not rocket science). Those are tactics. Once you learn what you can do and when, you can figure out how to fit what for a situation. If you specialize you can be really unconventional (and I like that). Most of the work is figuring out WHAT you can do and HOW and WHEN. Those things you don't need direct hands on experience. Hands on experience is like mega fleets, because that is difficult to simulate or watch on a video (too many things in the background), but I won't be doing those things for a while as I study. Still working on the Drake and pushing what it can do, and experimenting with fits both in EFT and in practice.