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PvP is totally uncompetitive and unfair

First post
Author
Bruce Kemp
The Voidstalker Heresy
No Forks Given
#141 - 2013-06-30 05:57:59 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


Tracking disrupters and other e-war kid, use them.

They can mess up a 10 year players guns,lock range,targeting,

Kite, deeps, disrupt,jam,damp, take your pick. Twisted
Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2013-06-30 06:02:50 UTC
I'm not sure you understood my point. In eve (unlike most mmorpgs) what matters most is player skills and social contacts. And by the time you gain those you'll have your character skills at the needed level for what you want to do.

Just to put in context with wow (since you seem to love to compare eve with theme park mmos) - in WoW a lvl 90 character can defeat an unlimited amount of lvl 10 players. You can send 1000 lvl 10 players and they'll die instantly. In eve 2-3 less than a month old players can cause an unlimited amount of damage to a 10 years old character. It all depends on how you play them.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2013-06-30 06:23:44 UTC
Let's see if you can understand this...

Do you know what a piranha is?
It is one of the most famous predator fish on the planet due to how they operate. In large groups, they can strip even a rhino to the bone in a matter of seconds.

A single fish isn't a major threat to anything but a school of them? ...

Yet...

Schooling of fish is a protective measure - a way to confuse and distract hungry nasties from eating them.

So if this famous predatory fish forms up in schools, running in huge groups at times; did you ever wonder what the hell keeps them using this as a core defensive tactic? Something still hunts and eats them.

Until you get big enough and know enough, I'd suggest you hang with others in a big pack. That "schooling" type approach to how you should run. It's safer and like those little fish with sharp teeth, you'll do well enough against even the largest types of opponents.

Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run...
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2013-06-30 06:32:28 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run...


But you also can learn that from YouTube, in the safety of your station and not having to spend ISK on lost gear, and save it for skill books, too.

What you can learn of the basics you can watch online. So when you're ready to join the schools of sharks for better meals, you can, with teeth sharp enough to bite the other fish's head off, then eat it whole. Pirate

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#145 - 2013-06-30 06:36:33 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Let's see if you can understand this...

Do you know what a piranha is?
It is one of the most famous predator fish on the planet due to how they operate. In large groups, they can strip even a rhino to the bone in a matter of seconds.

A single fish isn't a major threat to anything but a school of them? ...

Yet...

Schooling of fish is a protective measure - a way to confuse and distract hungry nasties from eating them.

So if this famous predatory fish forms up in schools, running in huge groups at times; did you ever wonder what the hell keeps them using this as a core defensive tactic? Something still hunts and eats them.

Until you get big enough and know enough, I'd suggest you hang with others in a big pack. That "schooling" type approach to how you should run. It's safer and like those little fish with sharp teeth, you'll do well enough against even the largest types of opponents.

Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run...

Blobbers.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2013-06-30 06:37:35 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Mocam wrote:
Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run...


But you also can learn that from YouTube, in the safety of your station and not having to spend ISK on lost gear, and save it for skill books, too.


No, you can't. You really can't. The next best thing to losing isk is the test server but it's still not the real thing.
Istyn
Freight Club
#147 - 2013-06-30 06:44:42 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship.


These things aren't really optional for PVP.

Even if you did manage to start winning, did you think they would honourably sit there and allow you to kill them?
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2013-06-30 06:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Sarton Wells wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Mocam wrote:
Over time you'll learn to recognize which are threats and which are safer and after you've learned this, then try the soloing stuff but always remember those roots of sticking with others and when to run...


But you also can learn that from YouTube, in the safety of your station and not having to spend ISK on lost gear, and save it for skill books, too.


No, you can't. You really can't. The next best thing to losing isk is the test server but it's still not the real thing.


Oh, yes you can. EvE isn't a special snowflake in the gaming world. Don't confuse sandbox with programming and game design -- From WoW to EvE it's exactly the same. A programmer in WoW is like the programmer in EvE. They just use different tools (each house makes their own) to do the same job and have a different design protocols. The rest is no different.

What I can learn off a video for BF3; is the same I can learn for WoW; and the same I've been using for EvE (and they do it without the fluff).

The last EvE videos I watched and bookmarked was with solo PvP. It was interesting because it wasn't a kid with a jockstrap strapped to his head explaining it. Full HD, and shows his full screen. He explained what he was doing; why he was doing it; reasons for doing A over B; tactics in encounters (like how to bait and separate). Real random encounters in low/null, not outside of a station, too.

Yeah, it can be done.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2013-06-30 07:02:51 UTC
Theoretical knowledge is all good and fine but you still need A TON of practical experience. The same goes for both bf3 and wow.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2013-06-30 07:13:52 UTC
Sarton Wells wrote:
Theoretical knowledge is all good and fine but you still need A TON of practical experience. The same goes for both bf3 and wow.


True, true, true.

And I'll get that when I have enough skills to actually be part of the prowl.

Like in carpentry you measure twice before sawing. I don't jump head first into situations, I'm more a tactician. I watch, observe, learn and then do.

And that's a learning style. We all learn differently. Some are hands on, others prefer to read first.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Prince Kobol
#151 - 2013-06-30 07:18:30 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


Isn't it horrible when somebody blows up your space pixels...
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#152 - 2013-06-30 07:27:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Otichoda
Bruce Kemp wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


Tracking disrupters and other e-war kid, use them.

They can mess up a 10 year players guns,lock range,targeting,

Kite, deeps, disrupt,jam,damp, take your pick. Twisted


I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy.

I would try to find a corp but the recruitment system in this game is so difficult to use. Especially on the forum, why couldn't they have slip advertisment from requests.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#153 - 2013-06-30 07:30:26 UTC
Quote:
I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy.


>.<

E-war goes in the mid slots.

Guns go in the high slots.

There aren't enough facepalm jpgs in the world for this, so I can only assume we are being trolled.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#154 - 2013-06-30 07:34:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy.


>.<

E-war goes in the mid slots.

Guns go in the high slots.

There aren't enough facepalm jpgs in the world for this, so I can only assume we are being trolled.


yes but my power and CPU max out and I can't use shield extenders/afterburners/weapons/e-war systems at the same time
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2013-06-30 07:35:28 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy.


You wouldn't need too. You either saved your hide (as now he can't hit you either); or you delayed him long enough for backup to arrive.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Bruce Kemp
The Voidstalker Heresy
No Forks Given
#156 - 2013-06-30 07:37:01 UTC
Sarton Wells wrote:
I'm not sure you understood my point. In eve (unlike most mmorpgs) what matters most is player skills and social contacts. And by the time you gain those you'll have your character skills at the needed level for what you want to do.

Just to put in context with wow (since you seem to love to compare eve with theme park mmos) - in WoW a lvl 90 character can defeat an unlimited amount of lvl 10 players. You can send 1000 lvl 10 players and they'll die instantly. In eve 2-3 less than a month old players can cause an unlimited amount of damage to a 10 years old character. It all depends on how you play them.


Thank god i have never played WOW Shocked
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#157 - 2013-06-30 07:41:24 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy.


You wouldn't need too. You either saved your hide (as now he can't hit you either); or you delayed him long enough for backup to arrive.


one problem, I don't have any back up

I would try to find a corp but the tools avaliable aren't that helpful
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#158 - 2013-06-30 07:41:26 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy.


>.<

E-war goes in the mid slots.

Guns go in the high slots.

There aren't enough facepalm jpgs in the world for this, so I can only assume we are being trolled.


yes but my power and CPU max out and I can't use shield extenders/afterburners/weapons/e-war systems at the same time


Dude. Get someone to teach you about fitting.

Ewar replaces shield mods. They work on a different principle.

E-war is more useful than shields when facing a single target, or when fighting in groups (because most ewar besides target painting multipies in usefulness with the number of people using it). Shield extenders, in fact most defensive mods, are more useful than ewar if you are taking damage from more than one source.

But, Frigates don't have much defense anyway, no matter how much you tank them. This gave rise to wolfpack style tactics in which frigates use ewar in groups to debuff opponents.

And you should always fit a prop mod. No one is saying to use every single mod on e-war. And if your powergrid and cpu max out, you need to improve your fitting skills, and downgrade your guns. If you were using 200mm autocannons, downgrade to 150s, or 125s.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#159 - 2013-06-30 07:42:47 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I can't do that because if I load up on e-war I don't have enough weapons to take down the enemy.


You wouldn't need too. You either saved your hide (as now he can't hit you either); or you delayed him long enough for backup to arrive.


one problem, I don't have any back up

I would try to find a corp but the tools avaliable aren't that helpful


How are the tools not helpful? You can look up every single corp in the game from the game client. There is also a forum on this site for it.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=265

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2013-06-30 07:47:26 UTC
Bruce Kemp wrote:
Sarton Wells wrote:
I'm not sure you understood my point. In eve (unlike most mmorpgs) what matters most is player skills and social contacts. And by the time you gain those you'll have your character skills at the needed level for what you want to do.

Just to put in context with wow (since you seem to love to compare eve with theme park mmos) - in WoW a lvl 90 character can defeat an unlimited amount of lvl 10 players. You can send 1000 lvl 10 players and they'll die instantly. In eve 2-3 less than a month old players can cause an unlimited amount of damage to a 10 years old character. It all depends on how you play them.


Thank god i have never played WOW Shocked


It's not that crazy, but like EvE is skill based, WoW is gear based. And you see me here now because heroic raiders can out pewpewpew PvPers in their PvP gear. Worked all that time for CP gear, only to have one patch to give PvE geared players not only a whopping 65% resilience, even more power than your specific gear can provide. -_-

That's like in EvE T2 ships are nerfed so T1 shipped players can blow them up...1v1. All that skill time went to waste. All so PvPers can get some more "victims". Yeah, at PvPers expense.

Not a happy time in PvP in WoW now.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell