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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

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Mary Mercer
Doomheim
#641 - 2011-11-08 03:45:02 UTC
Icarus Helia wrote:


I will admit that the extra day you have to run a low requirement module that can now be online and offlined in seconds may add some hassle to your lifestyle, but truthfully the entire process isn't any different in terms of isk, if anything it is a little cheaper. extra cost comes to you if you are willing to pay for the convenience of buying prefab pos fuel pellets, otherwise you will continue as previously. extra hauling shouldn't really be necessary, but in the interest of covering all bases - perhaps reducing the pellet size to a more average m3/hour at current levels ratio would quell the uprising? is it fair to assume that maybe 75% of the power and CPU available on any given tower are used, in terms of their fuel cost? take that average m3/hour fuel cost and translate that to the appropriate number of blocks, maybe a little smaller to compensate for the added raw material volume, however minimal it may be.


I don't think they need to change it. And to answer your question, maybe in low / null there is an average but I have times where one or the other is hardly used at all (cpu or power). The changes to fuel is going to slightly lower the demand on isotopes. Slightly. But it's going to increase the demand on both heavy water and liquid ozone. It's really not that big of an M3 change over all I don't think. (though I haven't taken the time to add it up atm. but it doesn't look like it is.)
Zircon Dasher
#642 - 2011-11-08 03:47:27 UTC
Sara Nomiya wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:


Investments always go up in value amirite


Not always hehe
Current real world economics will show that sometimes the value of what you invest can disappear overnight ... and that makes everyone really happy Roll

Faction tower investments are like box seats brought early for a season of ya favourite sport.
Sure they may be a bit more expensive tho ur happy to pay that cause you don't have to squeeze your way thru the huge crowd to get to your more comfy sheltered seat.
Imagine paying for those seats then someone took the box away and swapped the seats for normal plastic ones Evil ?!


That analogy is terrible.

A better one is:

You bought a limited edition car that gets 150 mpg
You paid the dealership a $100k premium for the car because 1)it would save you gas while you owned it and 2) the resale value in a year or two would be higher (or at least the same) because its fuel efficiency is soooo much higher than other cars.

Then the government raised the fuel efficiency standard for all vehicles to 150mpg.

I can understand being mad. Doesn't make that anger any less unjustifiable.

On the bright side- The government doesnt want to **** you off because it is an election year. You will probably keep your resale value.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Icarus Helia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#643 - 2011-11-08 03:48:33 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:
Mary Mercer wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:


If I tell them that, they'll quit. It's like telling them: "go rat in high sec for 6 hours a day"

same result.


*shrug. One less pirate to worry about it sounds like to me.


Yeah good luck with that strategy.

No game has ever survived by bleeding new subscriptions. Prove me wrong.


You don't need to please 12 million people and turn into the next WoW. Look at Everquest. The game was as much a time sink as Eve is and it's still being played today like 15 years after release or some crazy thing like that.

I'm happy to see some of this crap getting fixed finally and if they can make a new industry (Fuel block production) in the process, I say that is even better.


That's fine. But there's no reason that POS's fueled with fuel blocks should cost less to run than they did before. This is a backdoor tax on all new players who rely on PI to make a decent living.

And yes, you don't need to please 12 million people, but you do need to keep the experience of new players in mind when applying changes like this. Especially the ones that are most likely to become long term subscribers.


The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.

Why you no care?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#644 - 2011-11-08 03:51:02 UTC
Some observations:

1: A lot of people didn't read the whole blog.

2: A lot of people didn't understand the parts they read. Including, but not limited to:

Quote:
While we're waiting to do a proper rewrite of the star base system, we thought we'd tackle some of the bigger pain points for the upcoming Winter Expansion.


This is a quick streamlining of something that has been a pain in the ass for along time, intended as a temporary stop gap measure, that can be quickly implemented before the Winter Release. A more sophisticated method would be preferable in the long run, but there will not be time to do so before the next release. If you insist the proposed system is not good enough, then nothing will be able to be done until the full rework can be scheduled at some point in the future.

3: A lot of people have trouble with basic math.

4: A lot of people don't understand that a new industry is good for EVE, especially for new players.

5: A lot of people don't understand that this new POS fuel block industry may end up being more profitable and less time consuming to do with their existing infrastructure than what they are currently doing.

6: A lot of people don't understand that most alliances have POS personnel AND industry personnel at their disposal.

7: A lot of people don't understand that the effects of Sov and the benefits of Faction Towers are still under consideration, and that constructive feedback on these matters carries more weight that mindless flames.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Raziphan Rebular
Path of Dooppa
#645 - 2011-11-08 03:51:31 UTC
Icarus Helia wrote:

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.


Plus you have to consider that robotics/coolant/uranium/etc can't be bought by other players if it is sitting in an amarr block and someone needs to fuel a Minmatar POS. So over all you will see an increase in consumption on those parts simply because there are bound to be a lot of that stuff locked up in the wrong racial block depending on who is buying what.
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#646 - 2011-11-08 03:52:17 UTC
Icarus Helia wrote:

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.


Yeah, that's just this week.

2 weeks ago it was the announcement of the COs, which is truly what's going to put these new players out of business

This is not an instance. It's a trend. A trend of CCP appealing to the big, rich corps. The ones that don't ever take new players in. You know the ones.
Icarus Helia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#647 - 2011-11-08 03:53:45 UTC
Mary Mercer wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:


I will admit that the extra day you have to run a low requirement module that can now be online and offlined in seconds may add some hassle to your lifestyle, but truthfully the entire process isn't any different in terms of isk, if anything it is a little cheaper. extra cost comes to you if you are willing to pay for the convenience of buying prefab pos fuel pellets, otherwise you will continue as previously. extra hauling shouldn't really be necessary, but in the interest of covering all bases - perhaps reducing the pellet size to a more average m3/hour at current levels ratio would quell the uprising? is it fair to assume that maybe 75% of the power and CPU available on any given tower are used, in terms of their fuel cost? take that average m3/hour fuel cost and translate that to the appropriate number of blocks, maybe a little smaller to compensate for the added raw material volume, however minimal it may be.


I don't think they need to change it. And to answer your question, maybe in low / null there is an average but I have times where one or the other is hardly used at all (cpu or power). The changes to fuel is going to slightly lower the demand on isotopes. Slightly. But it's going to increase the demand on both heavy water and liquid ozone. It's really not that big of an M3 change over all I don't think. (though I haven't taken the time to add it up atm. but it doesn't look like it is.)


the blocks are fine - they could use some tweaking, especially for faction bonuses, but otherwise people are are just panicking because people generally do not like change.

Why you no care?
Raziphan Rebular
Path of Dooppa
#648 - 2011-11-08 03:54:10 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.


Yeah, that's just this week.

2 weeks ago it was the announcement of the COs, which is truly what's going to put these new players out of business

This is not an instance. It's a trend. A trend of CCP appealing to the big, rich corps. The ones that don't ever take new players in. You know the ones.



Occupy Jita! we are the 99% etc
Mary Mercer
Doomheim
#649 - 2011-11-08 03:56:08 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:

This is a backdoor tax on all new players who rely on PI to make a decent living.



ROFL... Did you really say that? Don't you have some protest to be at or something, you got your laptop at one of the occupy events atm?

Quote:


And yes, you don't need to please 12 million people, but you do need to keep the experience of new players in mind when applying changes like this. Especially the ones that are most likely to become long term subscribers.


[/quote]

In the grand scheme of things PI is so new it's absolutely mind numbing that you don't expect it to change or have changes affect it.

If I were you I'd be up front with your "nubs" and tell them that the source of income from PI might literally be obliterated at some point. After all if CCP ever gets the chance to follow through on their original intent, planets will be contested through DUST and you will have to FPS fight, or support a group FPS fighting to even be able to keep your crap on a planet.

Here, this explains it better than I can. http://youtu.be/H1eZfJcS7I0
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#650 - 2011-11-08 03:56:27 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:

Spoken like a true "Big Brother".

How does making POS cheaper to fuel help everyone? It doesn't. It only helps the old, rich, experienced players. No one else.

And it directly hurts the new players.


If you can't figure out how to profit from the POCO changes (which are going to decrease supply and drive up PI prices), the POS fuel changes, or any of the other changes in the upcoming expansion - or teach the younger players how to profit - then I suggest you expand your horizons and open your eyes.

For one thing, slightly cheaper POS fueling costs - especially for small towers - is going to make a lot of folks very happy when they're trying to get their feet wet with POS research / invention in hi-sec. Now they can setup a small tower and pay 20-30% less per month then before. Which means they can get into research/invention a little bit faster then before.

(And with the introduction of PI last year, a new player can easily make 80-120M per month on a single character from tending to their five PI planets in safe hi-sec. That's a huge boost up for the younger players, and since the POCO changes aren't going to affect hi-sec, not really going to be a problem for them other then slightly higher tariffs. The players who figured out that there were higher yields in lo-sec - are going to have to adjust. Well, that kind of goes with the uncertainty of doing things in lo-sec - sometimes the landscape changes.)
Icarus Helia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#651 - 2011-11-08 03:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Icarus Helia
sukee tsayah wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.


Yeah, that's just this week.

2 weeks ago it was the announcement of the COs, which is truly what's going to put these new players out of business

This is not an instance. It's a trend. A trend of CCP appealing to the big, rich corps. The ones that don't ever take new players in. You know the ones.


you obviously skipped my last response to this. i suggest you go back and read it. if too lazy the short version is that those alliances compete, and will not be able to charge everyone everywhere through the nose, and will be forced to reach an equilibrium. so unless you overcharge your corp noobs for CO access - it will never be a problem after the initial setup of the CO gantries

edit : previous post guy put it much more eloquently

Why you no care?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#652 - 2011-11-08 03:58:14 UTC
Raziphan Rebular wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.


Plus you have to consider that robotics/coolant/uranium/etc can't be bought by other players if it is sitting in an amarr block and someone needs to fuel a Minmatar POS. So over all you will see an increase in consumption on those parts simply because there are bound to be a lot of that stuff locked up in the wrong racial block depending on who is buying what.


The stock levels of the various fuel blocks will be balanced by the ever present forces of supply and demand, just as all other items on the market are. Supplies and prices will fluctuate wildly for a while, and reach a state of relative equilibrium.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#653 - 2011-11-08 03:59:02 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

4: A lot of people don't understand that a new industry is good for EVE, especially for new players.


I'm not arguing that. I actually agree.

Ranger 1 wrote:

5: A lot of people don't understand that this new POS fuel block industry may end up being more profitable and less time consuming to do with their existing infrastructure than what they are currently doing.


That on the other hand, is completely speculative. Especially considering the change w/ new COs.

* A lot of people don't understand that lowsec/nullsec PI for new players is pretty much dead after these changes. They either have to join an industrial corp, or get out of the PI game altogether.
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#654 - 2011-11-08 04:01:14 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Raziphan Rebular wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.


Plus you have to consider that robotics/coolant/uranium/etc can't be bought by other players if it is sitting in an amarr block and someone needs to fuel a Minmatar POS. So over all you will see an increase in consumption on those parts simply because there are bound to be a lot of that stuff locked up in the wrong racial block depending on who is buying what.


The stock levels of the various fuel blocks will be balanced by the ever present forces of supply and demand, just as all other items on the market are. Supplies and prices will fluctuate wildly for a while, and reach a state of relative equilibrium.


The ever present forces of supply and demand only work properly when left alone. When a greater, centralized "power" adds artificial incentives one way or another, it's no longer the forces of supply and demand. It's central planning.
Icarus Helia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#655 - 2011-11-08 04:04:44 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Raziphan Rebular wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.


Plus you have to consider that robotics/coolant/uranium/etc can't be bought by other players if it is sitting in an amarr block and someone needs to fuel a Minmatar POS. So over all you will see an increase in consumption on those parts simply because there are bound to be a lot of that stuff locked up in the wrong racial block depending on who is buying what.


The stock levels of the various fuel blocks will be balanced by the ever present forces of supply and demand, just as all other items on the market are. Supplies and prices will fluctuate wildly for a while, and reach a state of relative equilibrium.


The ever present forces of supply and demand only work properly when left alone. When a greater, centralized "power" adds artificial incentives one way or another, it's no longer the forces of supply and demand. It's central planning.


hybrid cars were invented. theyre more fuel efficient than other cars. naturally the oil business is crashing...

Why you no care?
Mary Mercer
Doomheim
#656 - 2011-11-08 04:07:47 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Raziphan Rebular wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.


Plus you have to consider that robotics/coolant/uranium/etc can't be bought by other players if it is sitting in an amarr block and someone needs to fuel a Minmatar POS. So over all you will see an increase in consumption on those parts simply because there are bound to be a lot of that stuff locked up in the wrong racial block depending on who is buying what.


The stock levels of the various fuel blocks will be balanced by the ever present forces of supply and demand, just as all other items on the market are. Supplies and prices will fluctuate wildly for a while, and reach a state of relative equilibrium.


The ever present forces of supply and demand only work properly when left alone. When a greater, centralized "power" adds artificial incentives one way or another, it's no longer the forces of supply and demand. It's central planning.


There are new products introduced into the economy every day by invention. Think of this as a new invention.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#657 - 2011-11-08 04:08:09 UTC
sukee tsayah wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

4: A lot of people don't understand that a new industry is good for EVE, especially for new players.


I'm not arguing that. I actually agree.

Ranger 1 wrote:

5: A lot of people don't understand that this new POS fuel block industry may end up being more profitable and less time consuming to do with their existing infrastructure than what they are currently doing.


That on the other hand, is completely speculative. Especially considering the change w/ new COs.

* A lot of people don't understand that lowsec/nullsec PI for new players is pretty much dead after these changes. They either have to join an industrial corp, or get out of the PI game altogether.


Solo PI done by brand new players in high sec is fundamentally unchanged, and likely to be more profitable now.

Most new players do not do PI in low sec/null sec. There are exceptions of course, but that mostly depends on your definition of "new players".

Players that have been around long enough to make a go of low sec/ null sec PI work will be more challenged, this is true. They would be much better served to find like minded players and work together in these pursuits. This is not a bad thing.

Indeed, these are also EXACTLY the same types of circumstances that were the driving force behind the initial creation of what are currently some of the largest power blocks in the game.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Commander Spurty
#658 - 2011-11-08 04:08:37 UTC
Clearly, been watching re-runs of transformers ;0

Like this a lot

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#659 - 2011-11-08 04:10:08 UTC
Icarus Helia wrote:
sukee tsayah wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Raziphan Rebular wrote:
Icarus Helia wrote:

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.


Plus you have to consider that robotics/coolant/uranium/etc can't be bought by other players if it is sitting in an amarr block and someone needs to fuel a Minmatar POS. So over all you will see an increase in consumption on those parts simply because there are bound to be a lot of that stuff locked up in the wrong racial block depending on who is buying what.


The stock levels of the various fuel blocks will be balanced by the ever present forces of supply and demand, just as all other items on the market are. Supplies and prices will fluctuate wildly for a while, and reach a state of relative equilibrium.


The ever present forces of supply and demand only work properly when left alone. When a greater, centralized "power" adds artificial incentives one way or another, it's no longer the forces of supply and demand. It's central planning.


hybrid cars were invented. theyre more fuel efficient than other cars. naturally the oil business is crashing...


yeah you must not be reading the news lately.

oil hit $95 today. way to pick a crappy day to make that point.
Ottman
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#660 - 2011-11-08 04:10:19 UTC
makes no sense at all, with pi getting unstable and griefable like hell those changes are a laughing number nothing else lol, for getting that new pos features going life and that in a stable way you still need pi, and with those player custom office changes announced its useless to improve pos, if the first part of chain is broken the complete chain is useless, let the custom ofices remain npc and things will run well, thats it.
and every other mmo publisher has never breaked the rules toward playerbase without paying their price what means massive money lost , and if you dont overlook that custom office change and remove it you will pay the price ccp...

MfG Ottman