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Increase PVP and combat afk cloaky camping
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#41 - 2013-06-23 20:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Behr Oroo wrote:

This isn't true. There are many non cloak roams that can interfere with null sec industrial operations.

it is.
Roaming? Are you joking? Read intel and go to POS, wait till the roaming passes, go back to what you did before. No f*cks given about any roaming gangs. Local even instantly tells you when first of them is about to appear in your system.

Behr Oroo wrote:
Short and sweet of it is, AFK cloaky campers are looking to troll a system.

troll a system, hm?

Behr Oroo wrote:
People will create arguments on this and that and all the other bullshit but the truth is. AFK cloak camping is easy, it gets kills, it trolls carebears, and people want Lulz for hearing the miners cry.

its easy yeah, but ratting and avoiding any threat is easy too. Way too easy, this is why afk cloakers exist - they force either to stop playing or accept the risk for more pvp as you requested.

Behr Oroo wrote:
You can say it will unbalance this or whatever but you know that's bullshit. The cloakies like their alt rookie ship cyno blob crutch. It's easy, cheap and effective. All I am asking for is a way to FIGHT back. The cloaky camper has the total advantage.

your "idea" is bullshit, that is. You can fight back? Organize pvp defense fleet during your mining activities and repel that cloaky ibis danger. You know what? You wont, because its effort all you want is mining in all peace, secured by a chat window which instanaly tells you when a danger appears - you better will come to forums and b*tch about other people disrupting your play.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-06-23 20:22:58 UTC
What ever happened to shooting the guy after he decloaks? Did that stop working all of the sudden?
Tecate
Special Tactics Force Unit Gits
#43 - 2013-06-23 20:28:06 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

its easy yeah, but ratting and avoiding any threat is easy too. Way too easy, this is why afk cloakers exist - they force either to stop playing or accept the risk for more pvp as you requested.


This is what we want to avoid and baiting the cloaky is useless. They won't attack unless they have double or triple the numbers than what you have.

I do not want to stop playing if I choose not too. If you come in my system, I want to interact with you. I do not want it on a one-sided action though.

Behr and Robert have pointed out that the combat and interaction is always on the cloakers side and this is one-sided. One-sided means unbalanced. For those of you who do not understand the scale concept.

I want to be able to challenge you on equal footing. If you cloak or hide, I want to track. That is fair.

CCP already gave everyone the ability to warp straight to the Anoms without scanning and they made it easier for combat pilots to find them.

I want to find the Cloaked individuals now just floating around trying to score easy kills. I want to challenge them to a game of real cat and mouse. Fight or Flee is fair either way you look at it.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-06-23 20:28:36 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
You can say it will unbalance this or whatever but you know that's bullshit. The cloakies like their alt rookie ship cyno blob crutch. It's easy, cheap and effective. All I am asking for is a way to FIGHT back. The cloaky camper has the total advantage.

your "idea" is bullshit, that is. You can fight back? Organize pvp defense fleet during your mining activities and repel that cloaky ibis danger. You know what? You wont, because its effort all you want is mining in all peace, secured by a chat window which instanaly tells you when a danger appears - you better will come to forums and b*tch about other people disrupting your play.[/quote]

No actually I am quite willing to PVP. I don't do it often cause I am not all that good at it. I will easily admit that. That's actually why I submitted this idea. I was looking for a way to increase the PVP. From what I gather from youre responses is you arent the player that I would really be focusing this at. You and I and everyone else reading the forums knows there is a tactic of parking an alt in a system. This alt is usually afk 90% of the time, sitting in a barely fitted rookie ship. He sneaks in and then sets up shop. There is no defense force that can counter this. It's a flaw in the game mechanics. He can sit there all day long and do nothing but he leaves the threat of an attack open at any given time. I understand this tactic and it is fine but it has no counter at all. I cant go out and hunt down this player, or even pose a threat to him. What i am asking for is a way to make that AFK cloaked camper think twice before trying to setup in my system. I dont think this is too much to ask.

My idea of the ship is a modification of what has worked in other games with rather high amount of success. It's a valid way of dealing with the AFK camper.

I am not scared of the ibis. It's the fleet of black ops that ibis brings with him.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-06-23 20:29:41 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
What ever happened to shooting the guy after he decloaks? Did that stop working all of the sudden?


LOL no of course not. That still works but with current game mechanics he can still light a cyno for a hot drop, which is what happens most of the time.
Nur AlHuda
Callide Vulpis
#46 - 2013-06-23 20:38:11 UTC
Full support. No ship should be invulnerable. You undock, you need to risk loosing it 24/7
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#47 - 2013-06-23 21:54:39 UTC
If you don't want to deal with AFK cloakers and make isk all day move into a wh. Close all connections and rat all day. Close any incoming connections. You'll have the system to yourself and if there is afk cloaker in system... you won't know about it Big smile

ignorance is bliss. Local is the problem not afk cloakers

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-06-23 21:59:06 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
If you don't want to deal with AFK cloakers and make isk all day move into a wh. Close all connections and rat all day. Close any incoming connections. You'll have the system to yourself and if there is afk cloaker in system... you won't know about it Big smile

ignorance is bliss. Local is the problem not afk cloakers


No actually I want to deal with the AFK cloakers. I want to find them and fight them. Not seeing a problem here. Isn't that what everyone wants? More PVP?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#49 - 2013-06-23 22:23:11 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
That ship youre flying. It was built buy a miner. That station you call home. It was built by a miner.

Hi.

I am a miner.

I don't have half a dozen accounts to maximize my effectiveness. I need to rely on quality over quantity.
There is the problem.

The quality factor is supposedly defined by player skill in avoiding PvP, this being null sec, but thanks to the free intel telling me the moment a hostile enters the system, I can get safe.
And so can every other miner in null.

I don't want them to be safe. I want them to ingloriously explode due to lack of effort, or simple carelessness.
But they won't, because the intel needed to stay safe is free and easily available.

I would be more at risk mining in high security space. Between war decs and suicide gankers, high security space is more dangerous than null is right now.

And it is a popular reference that doing L4's in high sec provides rewards comparable to PvE in null.
Well, duh, the risk and effort is greater than basic null PvE.

And I should not need to explain why null being safer is wrong.

In null, you are supposed to NEED player cooperation and teamwork to operate, in the eventual encounters with other players who want to shoot your ship. But you don't, because you can avoid them every time.

And now, you want to remove one of the few obstacles my competition has.

Yeah, miners are loving you, right up until they see their reward index circle the drain.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-06-23 22:42:48 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
What ever happened to shooting the guy after he decloaks? Did that stop working all of the sudden?


LOL no of course not. That still works but with current game mechanics he can still light a cyno for a hot drop, which is what happens most of the time.

I don't recall cynos making the user invunerable.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-06-23 22:50:22 UTC
You know my suggestion has nothing to do with that hostile coming thru the gate. It has everything to do with that hostile that sits in system for a week and never moves or does anything. He is just AFK, leaving the threat or a possible hot drop. He sits in a worthless ship and doesn't risk anything of major loss but yet he wants to prey on non PVP characters, picking off the ratter or the miner.

If you would take a moment to read what I said. I am purposing an idea that has nothing to do with ACTIVE cloak ships.

What if I offered a compromise.

Leave local but make Covert Ops ships not appear in local.
In exchange, us industrial types get our scout ship.

This should only apply to Covert Ops. The the cloak required for that takes more skill and should have natural advantages. Type 1 cloaks would still show on local, as they aren't perfect. So there you go.

The scout can track down cloaky ships, however black ops now have the advantage of not being seen unless they are scouted. it's highly likely a cloak gang would make it much further than the ones now do.

Or require that cloak is powered by some form of consumable fuel so that you cant just camp for days on end.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-06-23 22:51:38 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Behr Oroo wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
What ever happened to shooting the guy after he decloaks? Did that stop working all of the sudden?


LOL no of course not. That still works but with current game mechanics he can still light a cyno for a hot drop, which is what happens most of the time.

I don't recall cynos making the user invunerable.



No it doesn't make them invulnerable but the jump point still exists even after the ship is destroyed. It just doesn't last as long.
Sticky Icky Vicki
Doomheim
#53 - 2013-06-23 22:55:26 UTC
No ship should be immune to pvp. Once you undock you run the risk of getting blown up, NO ship should be immune to this, but currently afk cloakers are.

So full support of something like this, i don't know if this is the fix needed or something else. But something has to be done.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#54 - 2013-06-23 22:57:03 UTC
Cloaking is fine and working as intended, what's broken is the nature of mining and the null bears that run mining bots, all of these afk cloaking threads are an attempt by botters to keep their incomes intact. There's nothing worse than coming home from a hard days work to find that all of your mining bots have docked up because a single guy showed up in system and stayed there. Think of the lost iskies.

Not every cloaked ship is afk there's a lot of explorers visiting null and wh space. Botters get what they deserve and are worse than carebears who at least understand risk, even if they don't take any. At least they don't forum whine...

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-06-23 23:08:43 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Cloaking is fine and working as intended, what's broken is the nature of mining and the null bears that run mining bots, all of these afk cloaking threads are an attempt by botters to keep their incomes intact. There's nothing worse than coming home from a hard days work to find that all of your mining bots have docked up because a single guy showed up in system and stayed there. Think of the lost iskies.

Not every cloaked ship is afk there's a lot of explorers visiting null and wh space. Botters get what they deserve and are worse than carebears who at least understand risk, even if they don't take any. At least they don't forum whine...


So you're saying that a 3 month old character, sitting cloaked in a system for several days is just "exploring"?

I am sorry but I don't agree. Again I will state. My idea has nothing to do with ACTIVE cloak pilots.

AFK mining is also an issue in both high and low sec. I know my corp doesn't allow it and if you get caught doing it or lose a ship cause you were AFK. Well that's too bad.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-06-23 23:10:45 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Behr Oroo wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
What ever happened to shooting the guy after he decloaks? Did that stop working all of the sudden?


LOL no of course not. That still works but with current game mechanics he can still light a cyno for a hot drop, which is what happens most of the time.

I don't recall cynos making the user invunerable.



No it doesn't make them invulnerable but the jump point still exists even after the ship is destroyed. It just doesn't last as long.

Nope the cyno goes down as soon as the ship generating it does.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-06-23 23:15:06 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Behr Oroo wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Behr Oroo wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
What ever happened to shooting the guy after he decloaks? Did that stop working all of the sudden?


LOL no of course not. That still works but with current game mechanics he can still light a cyno for a hot drop, which is what happens most of the time.

I don't recall cynos making the user invunerable.



No it doesn't make them invulnerable but the jump point still exists even after the ship is destroyed. It just doesn't last as long.

Nope the cyno goes down as soon as the ship generating it does.


My understanding was that the cyno is active for one minute after the ship is destroyed but the ships that jump in after this are sent to random locations within the system.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-06-23 23:20:33 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:

My understanding was that the cyno is active for one minute after the ship is destroyed but the ships that jump in after this are sent to random locations within the system.

No, the cyno goes down the second the ship does. Any ship that is in the process of jumping to the beacon when it is destroyed gets thrown in a random direction at an insane speed. Also ships have a limit as to how far they can jump, and you should know where the enemies staging systems are and be able to get a scout to them to check to see if a potential drop is forming. (oddly enough this should also clue you into if the "afk" guy really is afk or not)
Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#59 - 2013-06-23 23:37:01 UTC
Quote:

It's shear ignorance to think this is fun or even fair game play.


If you find yourself in a fair fight in EVE, you're doing it wrong. And what is stopping you from jumping 1 system over to get away from the AFK cloaker? Do you even fly internet spaceships?
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-06-23 23:44:20 UTC
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:
Quote:

It's shear ignorance to think this is fun or even fair game play.


If you find yourself in a fair fight in EVE, you're doing it wrong. And what is stopping you from jumping 1 system over to get away from the AFK cloaker? Do you even fly internet spaceships?



LOL yes it's easy to just move but that doesn't solve the actual problem. Sadly you are right.