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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

First post First post
Author
mkint
#401 - 2011-11-07 20:09:14 UTC
Wiu Ming wrote:
a little off topic, but...

"We're hoping people will find that a satisfactory tradeoff, but we're listening for further feedback on this change."

This line, in one form or another, has been popping up all over the place lately. Seriously, this is huge and the best Christmas present of all. Thank you CCP...

Yeah right, that's what Grayscale said about the anom nerf. Grayscale has less credibility than anyone at CCP, even Hilmar. Short answer, is that whatever happens with these will be to the benefit of the CCP RMT friends, not to the benefit and health of EVE has a whole, especially with Grayscale running it.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#402 - 2011-11-07 20:11:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Fuujin
Smoking Blunts wrote:
are you increasing the size of the ammo assemblys from the current 150k m3?

5 production slots x 5 month fuel block runs will take what 600k m3 of input space. that imo shoudl be the min size of the input/hanger on them



Protip: equipment arrays can't hold a full amount of minerals for 6 cycles of large guns. You'll have to learn to drag and deal with it.


Edit: ^^ Yep. Don't worry, we'll probably tell Greyscale to throw you hisec peons a bone; after all, you can only skin a sheep once and you guys are providing an excellent vintage of tears this harvest season.
Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
#403 - 2011-11-07 20:14:48 UTC
Cabriel wrote:


- Building fuel cubes will take build slots that some 0.0 stations will not have (or be very limited).
- Limited build slots will mean PI will have to be shipped out to process to cubes then shipped back in.


Build it on the POS. Obviously, I don't know whether they'll let it be built in say an equipment assembly array (which incidentally has mild fitting requirements and cost), but that seems the likely solution to your concern above.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#404 - 2011-11-07 20:15:24 UTC
Fuujin wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
are you increasing the size of the ammo assemblys from the current 150k m3?

5 production slots x 5 month fuel block runs will take what 600k m3 of input space. that imo shoudl be the min size of the input/hanger on them



Protip: equipment arrays can't hold a full amount of minerals for 6 cycles of large guns. You'll have to learn to drag and deal with it.


im fully aware of what a equipment array can hold. im just looking at this from a lets not make pos's worse than current point of view.

OMG when can i get a pic here

Vanessa Vansen
Vandeo
#405 - 2011-11-07 20:15:37 UTC
Quote:
The one downside of this big-blocks approach is that it's impossible to give faction towers a fuel consumption bonus any more (you can't consume 2/3 of a block). We talked to some large-scale starbase operators about this, and they told us that the main bonus of faction towers for them is actually that they last longer between fuel cycles. To try and compensate for the increased running costs, we've taken the above bay size increases and added +25% bay size on top of that for the "tier 1" faction towers, and +50% bay size for the "tier 2" ones. We're hoping people will find that a satisfactory tradeoff, but we're listening for further feedback on this change.


From my point of view a very good example for improving the communication between CCP and the community!

Hold that course!
Rek Esket
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#406 - 2011-11-07 20:15:37 UTC
Viktor Maximus wrote:
What about the extremly more used Robotics for Large Towers? They are one of the most expensive fuelparts at the moment and you will need 4 / hour with this changes!!!


You can't read.

POS Fuel Changes (OLD -> NEW) [NO SOV]
Coolant: 8 -> 8
Mech Parts: 5 -> 4
Oxygen: 25 -> 20
Robotics: 1 -> 1
Enr. Uranium: 4 -> 4
Isotopes: 450 -> 400

POS Fuel Changes (OLD -> NEW) [SOV]
Coolant: 6 -> 6
Mech Parts: 4 -> 3
Oxygen: 19 -> 15
Robotics: 1 -> 0.75
Enr. Uranium: 3 -> 3
Isotopes: 338 -> 300
Sasmau
#407 - 2011-11-07 20:15:48 UTC
Viktor Maximus wrote:
We use Faction Towers for lower fuel costs. So why should we use faction towers anymore?

Please don't nerf faction towers :(

I have to agree that simply adding more space is not the right thing to do, then whats the point of it? I thought they were supposed to save money. I don't know who you guys were talking to about them, but they obviously don't know what they are talking about in regards to faction towers.

Other changes are great tho. I would be interested to see the stats on the BPOs, even if they are not final - such as number of runs, and the ME/PE of them (hopefully they are maxed without research).
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#408 - 2011-11-07 20:16:54 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:

Yeah. they are great if you are in Highsec.

But I live in 0.0. There are times when you
Quote:
cant
ähm. shouldn't use them. (neuts in System and so on).

And yes. you can jump a JF from System A to System B. But i don't know what you are thinking about risking a 5 Bil. ISK ship for transporting Fuel from System A to B, well I hope you got the point...

use a rorq just like every other 0.0 alliance


Obviously I wasn't able to make myselfe clear:

Why does it have to be a PITA?
Why do i have to transport 140k to a tower to run it 29 days? I have to move about 1.400k m^3 each month for fuel alone... even a frighter needs two runs to move that sh*t.

So I'm asking the question why? (and not how to misuse a RQ as a JF)

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710

Vanessa Vansen
Vandeo
#409 - 2011-11-07 20:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vanessa Vansen
Sasmau wrote:
Viktor Maximus wrote:
We use Faction Towers for lower fuel costs. So why should we use faction towers anymore?

Please don't nerf faction towers :(

I have to agree that simply adding more space is not the right thing to do, then whats the point of it? I thought they were supposed to save money. I don't know who you guys were talking to about them, but they obviously don't know what they are talking about in regards to faction towers.

Other changes are great tho. I would be interested to see the stats on the BPOs, even if they are not final - such as number of runs, and the ME/PE of them (hopefully they are maxed without research).


Maybe CCP could adjust the cycle duration of the faction towers instead of the fuel hold.


Edit: towers -> faction towers
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#410 - 2011-11-07 20:18:39 UTC
while your at it can we please please please repackage items in pos corp hangar arrays.... it would really help remove lag.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Jin Rich
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#411 - 2011-11-07 20:20:55 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:

Yeah. they are great if you are in Highsec.

But I live in 0.0. There are times when you
Quote:
cant
ähm. shouldn't use them. (neuts in System and so on).

And yes. you can jump a JF from System A to System B. But i don't know what you are thinking about risking a 5 Bil. ISK ship for transporting Fuel from System A to B, well I hope you got the point...

use a rorq just like every other 0.0 alliance


Alliances. Nullsec. 5 B ISK.

What about us small corps of 1-2 players playing EVE causually and running POSses in lowsec, producing stuff for the markets for the benefit of all you others out there?! Fuel pellets will make it a bit easier on us, but there is currently no plan to reduce the really tediuous work; transporting POS fuel to lowsec.

"Use a rorq" or " buy a jump freighter" you say. Well, they are WAY to expensive for a small corp!

"Flying blockade runners through low sec makes for good targets for pirates/gankers etc - thats good for EVE, and have a nice day!". Nope. I have flown through soo many gate camps in low sec and they never catch a blockade runner anyway (cloaky, warp core stabbed etc).

So why then, has no one in this simulated future ultra-capitalistic world invented a ship to solve an obvious need on the market!?

Might I suggest to you CCP that you consider introduction of a "jump hauler", i.e. a Iteron hull ship with a jump drive that is affordable for small corps (like an Orca maybe?) but has reduced cargo capacity (20000 m3 maybe). Make it work in only lowsec, if it in some way otherwise could impact the "balance" in null (what do I care about nullsec anyway?). Make it easier to maintain POSes in lowsec, and let us spend more time with pewpew instead!

Fuel pellets are good, but it will not reduce the workload for low sec POS owners significantly. Jump haulers would!

Comments, anyone? CCP?

David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#412 - 2011-11-07 20:22:03 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Can a GM/DEV answer this

what happens to poses with ordinary fuel in the fuel bays during the change over?

for example the day before patch day... i have a 3/4 full fuel bay in the tower.... after patch is deployed does my tower lose all this fuel and the tower go offline?

Or is the pos fuel in the tower automatically converted into fuel blocks?

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#413 - 2011-11-07 20:23:32 UTC
Jin Rich wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:

Yeah. they are great if you are in Highsec.

But I live in 0.0. There are times when you
Quote:
cant
ähm. shouldn't use them. (neuts in System and so on).

And yes. you can jump a JF from System A to System B. But i don't know what you are thinking about risking a 5 Bil. ISK ship for transporting Fuel from System A to B, well I hope you got the point...

use a rorq just like every other 0.0 alliance


Alliances. Nullsec. 5 B ISK.

What about us small corps of 1-2 players playing EVE causually and running POSses in lowsec, producing stuff for the markets for the benefit of all you others out there?! Fuel pellets will make it a bit easier on us, but there is currently no plan to reduce the really tediuous work; transporting POS fuel to lowsec.

"Use a rorq" or " buy a jump freighter" you say. Well, they are WAY to expensive for a small corp!

"Flying blockade runners through low sec makes for good targets for pirates/gankers etc - thats good for EVE, and have a nice day!". Nope. I have flown through soo many gate camps in low sec and they never catch a blockade runner anyway (cloaky, warp core stabbed etc).

So why then, has no one in this simulated future ultra-capitalistic world invented a ship to solve an obvious need on the market!?

Might I suggest to you CCP that you consider introduction of a "jump hauler", i.e. a Iteron hull ship with a jump drive that is affordable for small corps (like an Orca maybe?) but has reduced cargo capacity (20000 m3 maybe). Make it work in only lowsec, if it in some way otherwise could impact the "balance" in null (what do I care about nullsec anyway?). Make it easier to maintain POSes in lowsec, and let us spend more time with pewpew instead!

Fuel pellets are good, but it will not reduce the workload for low sec POS owners significantly. Jump haulers would!

Comments, anyone? CCP?



At least someone is getting the point, I wanted to make. But even you are looking at the sympoms and not on the problem.
Why does that sh*t have to be so large....

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710

Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#414 - 2011-11-07 20:23:51 UTC
This is awesome but yeah there are a lot of people that posted legitimate concerns that need to be addressed before implementation.

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool

Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#415 - 2011-11-07 20:24:46 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
Can a GM/DEV answer this

what happens to poses with ordinary fuel in the fuel bays during the change over?

for example the day before patch day... i have a 3/4 full fuel bay in the tower.... after patch is deployed does my tower lose all this fuel and the tower go offline?

Or is the pos fuel in the tower automatically converted into fuel blocks?


Goes offline, if you dont have any fuel blocks in it...
you can through in both kind of Fuel, blocks and parts but after the change, only the fuel blocks will work...

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710

David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#416 - 2011-11-07 20:25:05 UTC
Jin Rich wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:

Yeah. they are great if you are in Highsec.

But I live in 0.0. There are times when you
Quote:
cant
ähm. shouldn't use them. (neuts in System and so on).

And yes. you can jump a JF from System A to System B. But i don't know what you are thinking about risking a 5 Bil. ISK ship for transporting Fuel from System A to B, well I hope you got the point...

use a rorq just like every other 0.0 alliance


Alliances. Nullsec. 5 B ISK.

What about us small corps of 1-2 players playing EVE causually and running POSses in lowsec, producing stuff for the markets for the benefit of all you others out there?! Fuel pellets will make it a bit easier on us, but there is currently no plan to reduce the really tediuous work; transporting POS fuel to lowsec.

"Use a rorq" or " buy a jump freighter" you say. Well, they are WAY to expensive for a small corp!

"Flying blockade runners through low sec makes for good targets for pirates/gankers etc - thats good for EVE, and have a nice day!". Nope. I have flown through soo many gate camps in low sec and they never catch a blockade runner anyway (cloaky, warp core stabbed etc).

So why then, has no one in this simulated future ultra-capitalistic world invented a ship to solve an obvious need on the market!?

Might I suggest to you CCP that you consider introduction of a "jump hauler", i.e. a Iteron hull ship with a jump drive that is affordable for small corps (like an Orca maybe?) but has reduced cargo capacity (20000 m3 maybe). Make it work in only lowsec, if it in some way otherwise could impact the "balance" in null (what do I care about nullsec anyway?). Make it easier to maintain POSes in lowsec, and let us spend more time with pewpew instead!

Fuel pellets are good, but it will not reduce the workload for low sec POS owners significantly. Jump haulers would!

Comments, anyone? CCP?



smart pos monkeys use the planets in their systems to make pos fuel... this negates the need for alot of hauling.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Crunchmeister
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#417 - 2011-11-07 20:25:09 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
Can a GM/DEV answer this

what happens to poses with ordinary fuel in the fuel bays during the change over?

for example the day before patch day... i have a 3/4 full fuel bay in the tower.... after patch is deployed does my tower lose all this fuel and the tower go offline?

Or is the pos fuel in the tower automatically converted into fuel blocks?


Re-read the blog. That's already been explained.

People were constantly telling me I was crazy. For a long time I didn't believe them, but after a while, I started to think they might be right.

But it turns out that they were all wrong. One of the voices in my head is a psychiatrist and he says I'm perfectly sane.

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#418 - 2011-11-07 20:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Fuujin
Jin Rich wrote:
[quote=Weaselior][quote=Neo Agricola]
Might I suggest to you CCP that you consider introduction of a "jump hauler", i.e. a Iteron hull ship with a jump drive that is affordable for small corps (like an Orca maybe?) but has reduced cargo capacity (20000 m3 maybe). Make it work in only lowsec, if it in some way otherwise could impact the "balance" in null (what do I care about nullsec anyway?). Make it easier to maintain POSes in lowsec, and let us spend more time with pewpew instead!

Fuel pellets are good, but it will not reduce the workload for low sec POS owners significantly. Jump haulers would!

Comments, anyone? CCP?



Rorqs are under 2B in price. Anything you're doing that necessitates a lowsec tower will involve a lot of capital to begin with, either to begin or to maintain/defend. Plus, an iteron will be able to fuel up a tower with a few quick runs. If you're running multiple towers and haven't invested into at least an orca or a rorq, well, I applaud your masochism.

Deal with it.
svensmokavich
Fallen Empire
#419 - 2011-11-07 20:29:35 UTC
WOW i cant beleave that everyone is excited about this.besides the fact that ccp is gonna put another hand in our pockets sort of speek when it comes to pos fuel,why do we need another thing to manifacture?like we dont already have enough to build.in the long run this will drive up fuel prices due to a middle man manifactureing ur blocks,or if u want to do it urself lets waste some manifactureing slots on already needed toons to do stuff that really dosnt make alot of sence,ya it will make fueling ur pos easier but is gonna cost us more[like fueling these damn towers isnt expensive enough]theres no way u can intruduce a middle man into the process and not have the prices go up,ccp dosnt control the market,we do. i really wish ccp would stop trying to change stuff to so called make stuff easier and fix the *&^$%$ problems that we already have with the game.if they spent 1% of the effort into fixing some of the smaller issues ingame instead of tryin to radicaly change what is already there they wouldnt be loseing there 5 year older players to this kind of bs.tx for twisting the knife one more time ccpEvil
Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#420 - 2011-11-07 20:30:46 UTC
Whoops, meant to post this here rather than in S&I.

Large scale operators aren't the only ones using faction towers; to small scale users, the reduced fuel costs are a tremendous advantage that would be obliterated by this change. Increasing fuel costs completely annihilates any improvements the rest of the fuel system otherwise gives to me. Straight

R.A.M.s consume odd fractions of themselves by being damaged in manufacturing jobs; why can't fuel consumption work similarly?

This is the second time Starbases have been looked at recently; making the experience worse for a portion of the end users when redesigning the system, without the explicit intent to alter game balance, in order to accommodate other end users doesn't really accomplish what you set out to do. Ugh