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[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials

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mxzf
Shovel Bros
#61 - 2013-06-19 13:47:27 UTC
I definitely don't think that making the Hoarder the Minmatar high-capacity industrial is the right move. It punishes everyone who has used Minmatar Industrials in the past and forces them to re-buy ships. Sure, it might only be 15-20M for a rigged T1 industrial, but switching those two is a bit of a slap in the face to anyone already using the Mammoth.

Please keep the Mammoth as the Minmatar high-cap industrial.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#62 - 2013-06-19 13:51:05 UTC
Would really like to see specialized ship transporters. A small hauler which can transport 3-5 fitted frigs (nothing else) and larger versions for cruisers and BCs.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mole Guy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-06-19 13:54:17 UTC
@rise
good to see the progress still kickin (even though it isnt on my marauder). Cool

seriously tho, the hoarder is kewl, but you have to give it up for the mammoth.
even the name sounds bulky. mammoth and mastadon. t1 phat pig, t2 phat pig.

i think the ship looks like the old battlestar galactica. cant get too much better than that
unless we go to tie interceptors, colonial vipers, tie defenders and f-22 raptors.

but we're talking bulk, not fighters.

mammoth over hoarder... the horder is already the blockaide. its fast, nible and cloaky.
would be craziness to change it.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#64 - 2013-06-19 13:58:45 UTC
For people focused on homoginization: The problem here is that we don't have a complex purpose that we are lazily fulfilling by having every ship do it the same way, what we have is a very simple purpose and far too many ships meant to fulfill it. I think the division between the 2 roles outlined here is functional, and adds a bit of depth to a relatively straight forward job, but what many of you are asking for is basically new jobs. As some have mentioned above, adding entirely new purposes to t1 industrials, or subdividing the current one adds a lot of complexity and doesn't even approach the issue of balance within the class we already have and use.

We talked about specialized bays and other unique purposes, but ultimately decided that, for now, it was important to make sure that pilots from races other than Gallente weren't compelled to cross train for an Iteron 5, and also that there was at least one reasonable alternative within your race depending on what purpose you had in mind. We want to improve on industry in general, but that is a much bigger proposition and I don't think t1 industrials is the right starting point.

@ccp_rise
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#65 - 2013-06-19 13:59:56 UTC
About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)

@ccp_rise
Slaangani
Omega Foundry Unit
Southern Legion Alliance
#66 - 2013-06-19 14:00:33 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
@rise
good to see the progress still kickin (even though it isnt on my marauder). Cool

seriously tho, the hoarder is kewl, but you have to give it up for the mammoth.
even the name sounds bulky. mammoth and mastadon. t1 phat pig, t2 phat pig.

i think the ship looks like the old battlestar galactica. cant get too much better than that
unless we go to tie interceptors, colonial vipers, tie defenders and f-22 raptors.

but we're talking bulk, not fighters.

mammoth over hoarder... the horder is already the blockaide. its fast, nible and cloaky.
would be craziness to change it.



I think you are thinking of the Prowler.

I do like the Hoarder, but as said before, it has to be relinquish its place to the mammoth. Its a Beast of a hauler.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-06-19 14:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
tl;dr of changes:
bestower is now a giant f u to the people who spent a month training for itty 5s.

haulers only do 1 thing: have cargo capacity.
there's just no reason to have so many of them.
honestly, just remove all indies from the game and put in i set of Ore manufactured haulers.
there should only be 3 of them, 1 holding 15k odd, decent tank, 1 holding 26k odd with ok tank, 1 holding 38k odd with bad tank.

There is no Bob.

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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#68 - 2013-06-19 14:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
Quote:
honestly, just remove all indies from the game and put in i set of Ore manufactured haulers.


Some of us like this option a lot - unfortunately it would mean doing the same for all t2 haulers and all t1/t2 freighters, which would be A: A giant commitment in terms of art asset creation, B: A waste of assets that already exist and C: would probably be hated by a lot of players because of how much flavor and history it would remove from the game.

@ccp_rise
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#69 - 2013-06-19 14:05:00 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:

If I can haul 40000 in a t1, I should be able to haul 100,000 in a DST.


And how often have they told us about training time and higher leveled skills or specialization ships being a huge amount of investment for a rather small increase?



Those who have committed down that road have a ship most people regard awe useless (that being the DST). Upgrade them. They have to haul more.

Yaay!!!!
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#70 - 2013-06-19 14:07:50 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We want to improve on industry in general, but that is a much bigger proposition and I don't think t1 industrials is the right starting point.


Let me guess: you are talking about it, you have some ideas, nothing is currently done because of legacy code horror in backend systems.

I think your to-do list are full of awesome just as your metrics were when CCP Bettik decided to make changes like removal of static plexes in lowsec ninja smuggled in Retribution patch notes.

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Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#71 - 2013-06-19 14:15:20 UTC
I would have been happier if the Wreathe was made the odd hauler out since it is so fugly. And the Hoarder was the zippy/tanky one and the Mammoth the cargo king. But I am sure others would beg to differ.

Beyond that I am left feeling indifferent about the stats. They don't seem out place I suppose and make sense enough to me that I can't complain about them. Yet at the same time they feel vanilla, scrubbed of any racial identity. I know that was done in the name of making them all viable and desirable. Just wish it could have been done in a different manner.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-06-19 14:18:57 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
honestly, just remove all indies from the game and put in i set of Ore manufactured haulers.

C: would probably be hated by a lot of players because of how much flavor and history it would remove from the game.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. The lore, back story, history, or fluff (as a recent CSM decided to call it) is very important to many players.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2013-06-19 14:18:58 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)

It looks about five hobajillion times better than the Hoarder.
BarryBonez
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-06-19 14:19:35 UTC
No time to read before work, but if battle iterons and battle badgers are buffed. this is legit. if they are nerfed, this sucks. i dont care about carrying capacity P
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#75 - 2013-06-19 14:20:52 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, after far too much time, I think we're as close as we're going to get to finished with these.

Before numbers, let me explain what we're going for here. Before Odyssey, the biggest decision related to tech 1 Industrialas was: how much time do you want to spend training (and how much battle badgering do you want to do), and based on the answer you chose one of 4 industrials. Not only did we eliminate that decision in Odyssey by making the prereqs for all Industrials only 1 level of the relevant skill, we also have 12 Industrials in the game, not 4. So what I'm hoping to accomplish here is provide some more depth to the choice of which Industrial is best for you!

The way we're accomplishing that is by setting up 2 distinct roles within each race's industrial line-up, and also making sure that from race to race you have comparable power (rather than just having Itty 5 be king ruler of industrials). One of these roles is focused purely on cargo capacity, sacrificing survivability and speed, and the other gives up cargo for substantially higher base hp and align time along with improved signature radius and base speed.

Unfortunately, while we had some neat ideas, we weren't able to agree on something fun to do with the extra indies that Minmatar and Gallente have without either creating substantial racial imbalance or needing major resources that we would rather commit somewhere else. For now, these ships will be balanced around the others, falling somewhere between the 2 roles described above. See second post in the thread for a more in-depth explanation related to these ships, as well as some other details about this class.

Below I will list the changes for the Industrials focused on speed and tank first, then pure cargo, and finally the leftover awkward bunch.

Let us know what you think!



yeah, nice, but we don't care about this ATM.

i suggest [Odyssey 1.1]: dev read the odyssey feedback and issue thread, and FIX THE DAMN THING.

then in odyssey 1.2, sure, let's talk about looking at the industrial ships
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#76 - 2013-06-19 14:26:58 UTC
Please just get rid of racial haulers and give it to ORE. You didn't for mining ships, now please do it for the haulers and lets move on.
Sarmatiko
#77 - 2013-06-19 14:31:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
CCP Rise wrote:
About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)

Art don't like Mammoth, but they like the look of space dildo aka Iteron V?
That's weird. Bear

Wouldn't it be more logical to make Iteron III as new Iteron V (stats-wise), because it has T2 version?
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-06-19 14:32:32 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)


I suggest y'all sack the current Art department members and hire a group of folks that can.. you know.. see

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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#79 - 2013-06-19 14:46:54 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
About the Mammoth: I just checked in with Art briefly and they confirmed that they simply don't like the way the Mammoth looks. I'll point them to this thread and see what they have to say about your feedback =)


What? The Mammoth is the best looking T1 hauler in New Eden.

_ _
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#80 - 2013-06-19 14:52:16 UTC
Personaly I like idea of making superfluosu Mini and Gallente haulers specialised for specific cargo types, such as ice, minerals, gas, or allow them to provide specialised service such as fleet hangar or fitting. I would balance that by making general cargo ships for Matar and Gallente inferior to those of Caldary and Amarr. This way when one decides what industrial line to skill in to he would chose between access to specialised ships (Minmatar and Gallente line) or superior general cargo ships (Amarr and Caldari)

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