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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#241 - 2011-11-07 17:38:48 UTC
Maaxeru wrote:
Celebris Nexterra wrote:
Soooo when someone is being POS-bashed, (assuming they have an infinite amount of batteries) they can continually anchor and online ECM/Neut/SD batteries???? Someone mentioned doing the same with guns earlier, but because you have to come outside the shield to put ammo in them, it didn't matter. But those batteries don't need ammo, and many would argue a tower should only have ECM batteries on it, as they are rather OP.

I really see a problem with these new anchoring/onlining times. Someone mentioned having a queue set up. I think this is more appropriate, as a POS SHOULD be challenging to set up in that it takes a long time. But you shouldn't have to sit there and stare at each mod waiting for it to anchor/online.

POS bashes are already long and boring enough, please don't make it worse.


^^ This.

- AND -

Letting all blues use all your JBs . . . . nice.

Letting all blues use all your JBs and not giving them some way to fuel the JB . . . . not nice.

Don't let them take fuel out or see how much is in there, but create either a setting that actually allows them to voluntarily fuel the bridge, OR, put on a setting that makes them (or anyone, even if in your Aliance) pay for their jump in liquid ozone.

You could either make it POS specific, or a option that queues off some global Alliance setting the executor can set. In that way, you could say "Everyone get here! Reds inbound! The bridges are "free Pass" to you!" - or - "Nothing's going on today except some hardcore carebearing. Pay for your own damned fuel!"




EDIT: While you're at it, please also create a log of who used the JB inluding at least char name and shiptype. This way if someone is abusing the network, we can see it and whap them in the head. - Thanks!


One work around - allow the POS owner to set a fee for the use of the JB that scales in the same way that JB fuel usage scales. That would make them a bit more revenue neutral.
Ripard Teg
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#242 - 2011-11-07 17:41:11 UTC
Adding my voice to those that say faction towers need a better bonus than what they've been given. I understand the difficulty of making them cheaper to operate in the new model, which means they should be given some other, equivalent bonus.

Simplest solution would be to make them tougher. More difficult solution is to give them one level of sov bonus, no matter where they're anchored, once THAT problem is solved.

Everything else about this devblog? Big smileBig smileBig smile

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Shin Dari
Covert Brigade
#243 - 2011-11-07 17:41:30 UTC

There is some definite good stuff here. However could you please reduce the block size for improved logistics?
mkint
#244 - 2011-11-07 17:42:50 UTC
Temmu Guerra wrote:
Nocturrne Primitive wrote:
No! No! NOO!

So, not only do I have to flog myself to gather all of the fuel, but I also have to package it into friggin blocks....

How is this supposed to make our lives easier?



Why not just buy the blocks?

Because many people, especially WHers and the small groups CCP is trying to kick out of nullsec, produce most of their own POS fuel through PI. They would continue to do PI because it's profitable anyway (barring the PI nerf that is/was on the table) except now to "just buy the blocks" they will have to haul every last bit of stuff they produced to empire to sell before buying new blocks. That's not going to happen. Instead they get an extra step in fueling POSes, and have to use up CPU/PG on the tower for manufacturing as well.

Is it just me, or is Grayscale absolutely intent on wiping out any competition for his RMTing nullbear friends? This is two.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Slieper
Perkone
Caldari State
#245 - 2011-11-07 17:43:29 UTC
As a CEO for a WH corporation I am VERY much against the fraction-PoS changes. I don't know whom CCP talked to, maybe for people, fueling 100 POSes that is not a important, how much do they eat.

But for WH the main reason for fraction PoSes is that you need LESS LOGISTICS to bring fuel into your system. That is the main reason we have fraction towers.

The propose new bonus makes these towers absolutely useless here.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#246 - 2011-11-07 17:43:33 UTC
CCP: you may want to consider the Heavy water and Liquid ozone requirements to build cubes. Instead of making it equal to what a maxed out POS needs, make it to the Eve wide consumption remains unchanged.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2011-11-07 17:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
1. Fuel Pellets need to retain the fuel bonuses of faction and sov towers.

2. My corp runs and maintains almost 80 POS's, many are large/medium. We are in dire need of something that is not just convenient, but smaller in size.

3. For the JB addition where you're removing passwords. We set some people +2.5 so they can't dock at stations or use our infrastructure or see fleets without manually adjusting the standings, however my pilots don't shoot.

Something similar for the JB would be great.


EDIT: Thank you for finally looking at this.

POS fueling/setting up is quite literally the most horrible job in EVE.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Largo Coronet
Perkone
Caldari State
#248 - 2011-11-07 17:44:27 UTC
Nocturrne Primitive wrote:
No! No! NOO!

So, not only do I have to flog myself to gather all of the fuel, but I also have to package it into friggin blocks....

How is this supposed to make our lives easier?
No no no no no.

You buy the blocks INSTEAD of the POS fuels as before. Now you're getting one item instead of several. It reduces POS fueling to running a car.

Now if you WANT to build your own refinery to make gas, that's your choice. But expect the basic effort to go DOWN, not up.

(Someone start a corp and call it BP - British POSfuel)

This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

Someday, this signature may save my life.
Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#249 - 2011-11-07 17:46:09 UTC
Slieper wrote:
As a CEO for a WH corporation I am VERY much against the fraction-PoS changes. I don't know whom CCP talked to, maybe for people, fueling 100 POSes that is not a important, how much do they eat.

But for WH the main reason for fraction PoSes is that you need LESS LOGISTICS to bring fuel into your system. That is the main reason we have fraction towers.

The propose new bonus makes these towers absolutely useless here.


I hear you on the fraction towers. I've been wanting to get one of those sweet Large Numerator Control Towers for a while; now I'm not so sure.
CCP Prism X
C C P
C C P Alliance
#250 - 2011-11-07 17:46:09 UTC
This one time.
In Band Camp.
Absolutely nothing happened.
For a whole day, NOTHING!
It was a fairly boring day to tell you the truth.
Even so POSs all started going randomly offline. Somehow that did not stop them from opening fire on blues and only blues.
I think this five year old love/hate relationship of ours with the current POS code is getting old.

Just felt like getting that off my chest after reading this.
Carry on.

CCP Prism X

Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
Warzon3
Perkone
Caldari State
#251 - 2011-11-07 17:46:12 UTC
this and all the other changes are making me come back into eve

thank you CCP
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2011-11-07 17:47:43 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
This one time.
In Band Camp.
Absolutely nothing happened.
For a whole day, NOTHING!
It was a fairly boring day to tell you the truth.
Even so POSs all started going randomly offline. Somehow that did not stop them from opening fire on blues and only blues.
I think this five year old love/hate relationship of ours with the current POS code is getting old.

Just felt like getting that off my chest after reading this.
Carry on.

This has happened before.

Remember last year when they went skynet on everyone?

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
velinqangi
Nkulunkulu
#253 - 2011-11-07 17:47:51 UTC
More compression please!
Nye Jaran
Doomheim
#254 - 2011-11-07 17:47:59 UTC
Not sure if someone has said this already. Get rid of the fuel blocks concept. Replace it with fuel pellets. Conversion rate from blocks to pellets is 100 pellets for every block.

Building them requires the the same materials (minus heavy water and liquid ozone) but makes 400 pellets instead of 4 blocks, and it takes 10 minutes. A single pellet is .5 m3, or 50m3 per 100 pellets . Fuel consumption is as follows:

Small Regular - 100 pellets / hour
Med Regular - 200 pellets / hour
Large Regular - 400 pellets / hour

Small Tier 1 Faction - 75 pellets / hour
Med Tier 1 Faction - 150 pellets / hour
Large Tier 1 Faction - 300 pellets / hour

Small Tier 2 Faction - 50 pellets / hour
Med Tier 2 Faction - 100 pellets / hour
Large Tier 2 Faction - 200 pellets / hour

Currently, if a faction POS is not heavily loaded up, you can fit more fuel in it since you need less HW and LO, meaning you refuel it less. While the fuel bay bonus does this as well, you are still paying the same amount for fuel as a regular tower. If you keep the HW and LO calcs as they exist currently, you don't need to add a fuel bay bonus to achieve the same effect. It's win / win.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#255 - 2011-11-07 17:48:32 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
This sucks from a WH perspective. Now you not only have to haul in ice products but you also you have to create the stupid blocks. I fail to see how this "simplifies" anything.


It's not that bad Hope, and this is from a fellow hole-dweller. Yes, we already bring in the ice fuels, and normally we'd have them taking up space in the hangar until needed. Then... I look over at my ammo array, sitting there between any processing, and I look at the fact that I can now have EVERYTHING onlined up to max CPU/PG with no fuel penalty and I think... you know... I can keep one of the five slots pretty busy now making fuel chunks that would normally sit idle... let's face it, my missile production isn't using every slot 24/7. Now... my PI makes an excess, I easily have a good six months of extra fuels on hand (in case of emergency). I can convert this all over to fuel chunks and check it out... something else to take to market.

Wormholes don't take a real hit in this in a negative way as I see it. We still bring in what we bring in... and that's only for those that will still choose to bring it in. Some others may look at things and decide they can shift their full PI to other materials that produce a greater profit, run those out and bring processed fuel chunks in on the return trip. Hmm... there's potential for good profits there too actuallly if you think about it... shifting all your wormhole PI to hogh profit P3 or P4 materials and only hauling in fuel chunks.

The PCOs... those are going to really kick wormholes in the balls if they don't at least allow a transitionary time period. Fuel chunks, however... these work to our benefit I think in the long haul.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Tas Nok
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#256 - 2011-11-07 17:48:35 UTC
Jenn Makanen
I applaud the changes on the whole, if you LISTEN to some of the suggestions given in this thread then this could be a [i wrote:
very very[/i] good patch for pretty much all concerned, however; Please do not just push the concerns of wormhole dwellers aside saying "well, someone has to get hurt in every patch".

Currently those that live in W-Space only need to haul ice products in, now we have to develop the logistics to either get the blocks from K-Space and haul that in (greater volume then before) or manufacture the blocks after hauling the same ice products in... self-sustainability has taken a hit.What?


Listen to and react to the feedback... already in ~10 pages there is a concensus building on how to overcome some of the issues you highlighted.




Or have an ammo assembly array, and build it yourself? Just 4 hours a day for a large tower. And that's using one run. Buy a few blueprints, and use multiple lines.


The problem here is that while CCP made it easier to online/offline said array, it takes 4 hours of manufacture time to fuel a large pos for 1 day (as apposed to zero now) so nearly every other pos will need an assembly array JUST to crank out these blocks, thus nerfing all towers that were running on minimum fuel anyway.

which really brings up the other problem, this one size fits all while wonderful for POSes that have enough guns and arrays to really fill up an overview doesn't do much for the corp with the faction tower with only a few mods online specifically in order to save fuel costs! now with the blocks it won't matter if I have 1 gun online or 20...

there is hope that the ubiquity of these blocks will make the costs level out, but what with goons messing with gall ice and the PI changes which will kill LS PI the general trend seems to be making POS fuels more and more expensive, not less.

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#257 - 2011-11-07 17:48:45 UTC
inb4 price drops to faction towers.

The changes are great generally, except for removed fuel usage bonus on faction towers,
basically there will be no need for them anymore since once per month is an acceptable period for fueling already.
Arte
Harden House Irregulars
#258 - 2011-11-07 17:48:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arte
Bah..

A forum ate my hamster
Chesticular Homicide
Boundless Invention
#259 - 2011-11-07 17:49:13 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP: you may want to consider the Heavy water and Liquid ozone requirements to build cubes. Instead of making it equal to what a maxed out POS needs, make it to the Eve wide consumption remains unchanged.


This. The proposed HW and LO amounts are far too high. None of the towers I've managed have ever used that much LO/HW.
Ariane VoxDei
#260 - 2011-11-07 17:49:27 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
seriously cut out the cycle time nonsense

it's way easier to increase blocks produced and do different fuel consumption amounts cause that breaks nothing and requires no new code


Neither does cycle changing, if it is just a database entry listing a timer. We dont know. Lazy grey does. Really, if he couldnt come up with that changeover on his own (and lacked the sense to ask forum), then punching himself in the face over it (as per blog) is getting off very easily.