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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

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Eutectic
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#221 - 2011-11-07 17:26:07 UTC
Wow changes like this make me wonder if CCP actually have any clue as to how EVE actually works. It's simply mind boggling they can think that it's a simple thing to eliminate PG/CPU consumption rates from POS fuel cycle by maximizing the Heavy Water and Liquid Ozone rates to 150 units an hour each for a large tower. In many cases for towers this is an increase of 100% to 1500% in that particular fuel consumption rate.

I'm guessing overall this change in fuel cycle will on average mean a 400% increase in Liquid Ozone and Heavy Water consumption across Eve. Prices are already spiking in Jita and availability is tightening. Reminds me of PI all over again, but at least this time around endless NPC goods aren't available for hoarding. Get ready for a large spike in the total cost of running POS's.
Dalton Vanadis
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#222 - 2011-11-07 17:26:43 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Dalton Vanadis wrote:
I would like to say that one idea that is probably easy to implement and will make all of your players who manage towers very very very happy with you is to just plop a full load of these pellets into the fuel bay on patch day, just erase their old fuel, put in 29 days of fuel blocks and call it a day.


- Anchor Tower
- Put in a bit of fuel
- Convert to blocks for free
- Tear down tower
- Sell fuel


Damn, always forget it's EVE, and players will always find a way to pull moar ISK.

Something to consider might be that the injection of ISK/materials into the market might then offset some of the inevitable post-expansion market inflation of the materials keeping the overall system slightly more stable than the all out land-grab of materials that will happen otherwise.

Plus leading up the expansion, if everyone was going to try and anchor towers to get the free fuel, tower prices will spike, likely making it an overall loss of ISK to just buy a tower off the market. Furthermore, increasing supply on the market through that means would be akin to seeding it directly on the market from the get go, which would decrease the transition period.

But yeah, hadn't considered how people would scam the system, so probably wouldn't work overall... Too bad, would have made life easier for everyone just keeping their actual towers running.
Largo Coronet
Perkone
Caldari State
#223 - 2011-11-07 17:28:02 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Dalton Vanadis wrote:
I would like to say that one idea that is probably easy to implement and will make all of your players who manage towers very very very happy with you is to just plop a full load of these pellets into the fuel bay on patch day, just erase their old fuel, put in 29 days of fuel blocks and call it a day.


- Anchor Tower
- Put in a bit of fuel
- Convert to blocks for free
- Tear down tower
- Sell fuel
Gee, a one-time bonus as opposed to yet another conversion nightmare? Yeah, I think we'll all survive that.

This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

Someday, this signature may save my life.
Metis Laxon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#224 - 2011-11-07 17:28:09 UTC
Halloween Harry wrote:
Metis Laxon wrote:


You listen as well, with this system you only need to haul in fuel pellets that you bought off the market. If you don't want to manufacture them at your own POS, which you can. Using the same damn materials you are used to.



You havn't the production capacity in station to make all the fuel. On large POS need a production slot for 5days every 29days.



If that is a concern to you run an array and produce it at your own POS. Don't forget that there are thousands of hisec POS users that will jump on this as a way to make consolidated ISK from their planets. People are not just limited to station production.
Lynn Deniera
State War Academy
Caldari State
#225 - 2011-11-07 17:28:11 UTC
Someone may have pointed this out, but for your math problem with the bonus being applied to faction towers/and sov space, all you need to do is make the blocks smaller so that it fits.

Also will players now be able to drop ozone into jump bridges that are belonged to a mutually blue alliance? (Instead of sitting on the jb waiting for someone from that alliance to come along to fuel it)
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#226 - 2011-11-07 17:28:38 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
To everyone suggesting faction towers have a longer fuel cycle time: Remember the one hour cycle is built into all pos processes, moon mining reactors and so on. Adding a new cycle timer for one of those processes (fuel use) would be a pain. Also remember that starbase charter consumption is not effected, so it would still be one per hour., resulting in different starbase fuels being consumed on different schedules.

Im leaning to increase the fuel block count by x50 and drop their volume to 1 cu m.


Just consume the starbase charters at the same time you do the fuel cycle, those barely cost anything compared to the actual fuel anyway. Stretching that really makes no difference whatsoever...

But nevertheless, I'd rather rave a smaller fuel block and be able to reduce consumption then. I don't give a crap if I haul 100 or 1000 or 10000 blocks as long as the volume is the same. Who cares about the stack size? And if someone cares, WHY!?

CCP Greyscale wrote:
Currently thinking about:

  • Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
  • Block build times


Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)


Very good! Promising even :D

Apollo Gabriel wrote:
As to Faction towers can you make them get an hour free per day? Something akin to every 23 hours they burn fuel they get an hour free? It would be a rather simple fix and keeps the cycle time at 1 hour.


That would most likely be much more work to be implemented, as you need to somehow keep track of the online-hours. Just cutting down the block size and having them require a bit less is a much simpler approach, only requiring tweaking some DB values compared to actually programming the new counter and exploit-proofing it...
mkint
#227 - 2011-11-07 17:29:58 UTC
Largo Coronet wrote:
Labrena wrote:
You practically have to have a POS just to build anything these days in any quantity.
Yeah, you'd think CCP wanted us to be more reliant on one another instead of having it spoon fed to us by NPC corps.

Oh wai...

POSes and corp roles are proof that players are NOT meant to work together.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Maria Blick
Blick Family Enterprises
#228 - 2011-11-07 17:32:19 UTC
As a solution to the half-and-half problem during changeover, why not simply empty every fuel bay, and give everyone 14 days of free fuel blocks? Think of it as making up the years of major PITA.
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2011-11-07 17:32:58 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Currently thinking about:

  • Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
  • Block build times


Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)



Get a clue about the HW/LO changes you just made.


Watch your backs CCP
Morphius Reales
Astral Forging
#230 - 2011-11-07 17:33:30 UTC
Overall a good change.

However, I also agree that making a better bonus for faction towers should be done.

I don't see why multiplying your current values by 10 would make anything more complicated math wise (10/hr for small, 20/hr for med, 40/hr for large), and would give the latitude to make bonuses to fuel for faction towers.
Nocturrne Primitive
Evil Young Flesh
#231 - 2011-11-07 17:33:37 UTC
No! No! NOO!

So, not only do I have to flog myself to gather all of the fuel, but I also have to package it into friggin blocks....

How is this supposed to make our lives easier?
Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#232 - 2011-11-07 17:34:29 UTC
Sort Dragon wrote:
Would ccp be willing to give 1 bpo to each person as a redeemable item then have extra bpos on the market as this is going to be the forced fuel type for the future and not everyone will have the means to maybe get a bpo?



HAHHAHAHAA

If you're lucky, the BPOs won't be 75M+ each.

Raid'En
#233 - 2011-11-07 17:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Raid'En
okay, now i have re-read the blog and all the comments ^^
so, pretty good changes here.

JB password gone will be pretty nice.
(un)anchoring delays extremaly reduced will make me think about changing pos, and maybe even go back to w-space (deathstar takes so much hours to put on... and way more out)

i like the robotics change also, small tower were almost useless these days given how expensive are robotics...

1) for the blocks, i consider as lots of said that it would be very easy to add a "0" to the creation and consumption, so that the faction and sov bonus is done.
it's not a zero that will make things more complex for us...

2) the time to produce that seems to high. on high sec it will be good for people wanting to manufacture this to sell, but for null or w-space it will be a pain.
even with the change on anchoring, if you have to online a ammunition array for one day every week it may be an issue, as you need obviously to have something else offline during this time.

3) the icons, change them. each faction have it's color, why are you not using this here for the blocks ? i don't get it.

edit : changed last line after more comments. dunno what to do for ozone / h. water. putting a medium level may be an idea.
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#234 - 2011-11-07 17:36:03 UTC
Seriously, keep the faction tower fuel bonusSad
Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#235 - 2011-11-07 17:36:03 UTC
Nocturrne Primitive wrote:
No! No! NOO!

So, not only do I have to flog myself to gather all of the fuel, but I also have to package it into friggin blocks....

How is this supposed to make our lives easier?



Why not just buy the blocks?
Inyor Dreams
Evil Young Flesh
#236 - 2011-11-07 17:36:19 UTC
Pavee Lackeen wrote:
So basically you are just adding another step in the fueling process while removing some bonuses?

Doesn't seem like anything was gaining and the drudgery increases.


^^^ this

it has simplified tower fuelling, but put extra steps in as you still need all the components AND have to build the blocks!!!
mkint
#237 - 2011-11-07 17:36:45 UTC
Eutectic wrote:
Wow changes like this make me wonder if CCP actually have any clue as to how EVE actually works. It's simply mind boggling they can think that it's a simple thing to eliminate PG/CPU consumption rates from POS fuel cycle by maximizing the Heavy Water and Liquid Ozone rates to 150 units an hour each for a large tower. In many cases for towers this is an increase of 100% to 1500% in that particular fuel consumption rate.

I'm guessing overall this change in fuel cycle will on average mean a 400% increase in Liquid Ozone and Heavy Water consumption across Eve. Prices are already spiking in Jita and availability is tightening. Reminds me of PI all over again, but at least this time around endless NPC goods aren't available for hoarding. Get ready for a large spike in the total cost of running POS's.

Actually, this is an extremely good point. Ice products are about to be broken the same way T3 mats are. I wonder which of the ice products will be the new MNRs and everything else that will be garbage. Would be freakin' hilarious if this totally negated the "ice interdiction" project, but not worth it at the cost of destroying the whole ice market.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
UGINSECOND
RSSCP Light Production
#238 - 2011-11-07 17:38:15 UTC
Why we lost a claim-dependence ?
Why we need lose a production slots for fuel producing ?
Why we MUST use a ozone ?
Arte
Harden House Irregulars
#239 - 2011-11-07 17:38:27 UTC
Metis Laxon wrote:
Arte wrote:
Some stuff I said




You listen as well, with this system you only need to haul in fuel pellets that you bought off the market. If you don't want to manufacture them at your own POS, which you can. Using the same damn materials you are used to.


You learn to read.

Currently wormhole dwellers only have to haul in ice products. This only requires a certain volume. That volume has just increased making logistics harder.

Or

Wormhole dwellers can manufacture the pellets themselvs, making logistics slightly harder.

As I said, it's easier in a lot of respects and I applaud the changes, with a few tweeks they just made POS management a whole lot easier, but it also put in another layer of logistics into the POS management. If you're not involved in producing your own fuel this is a win/win change - you can't lose.

Most wormhole dwellers however are in the business of producing their fuel already through PI and so the extra layer of logistics comes into effect.

I wasn't crying about it. Just raising it as a point. YOU don't have to be a prick about it.
Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#240 - 2011-11-07 17:38:27 UTC
I also want to know when faction towers will make a return.

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